Security at AFL grounds

[Tarkyn_24]

The airplane analogy is way off. Airport security is vital because on a plane if something goes wrong everyone generally dies, given they are in a huge metal container a long way off the ground.

Security in these sorts of cases (ie metal detectors) generally is directed at stopping something after it has happened for the first time. In a situation where there is no credible threat, and the event has never happened, a costly and time consuming exercise should be undertaken anyway?

600 people max vs what, 100.000 potential targets?

 

[The 747]

600 people max vs what, 100.000 potential targets?

What about NYE in the city 500,000 potential targets. Should lock down the city maybe?

 

[rdhopkins2]

Cricket fans face security fence at the MCG

To become known colloquially as "the Muslim fence"...

Is 'is really a good idea?

I suppose they have to be seen as doing something. In the event of a major emergency, total evacuation is unlikely and a major emergency is likely to be confined to one area.

Unless there is a group targeting different gates simultaneously. Or we have a 9/11 scenario.


How do you protect a station like Flinders St or Richmond?

At least with an MCG security check you have the opportunity to have a few layers of security. You would have to man every station in Melbourne/ VIC with security to prevent something at a major station. In theory someone could get on at Stony Point or Wodonga and transit through to the 'G.

 

[Superstar swan]

I really dont understand why people are against adding further security measures. It will have no influence on the event they are about to see

 

[The 747]

I really dont understand why people are against adding further security measures. It will have no influence on the event they are about to see

1 Because it will make things cost more.

2 Because people are dubious about the effectiveness of these measures

3 Because it will make it more difficult to quickly get into the event

 

[PP34]

Absolute joke

 

[Brad Goodman]

Is 'is really a good idea?

I suppose they have to be seen as doing something. In the event of a major emergency, total evacuation is unlikely and a major emergency is likely to be confined to one area.

Unless there is a group targeting different gates simultaneously. Or we have a 9/11 scenario.


How do you protect a station like Flinders St or Richmond?

At least with an MCG security check you have the opportunity to have a few layers of security. You would have to man every station in Melbourne/ VIC with security to prevent something at a major station. In theory someone could get on at Stony Point or Wodonga and transit through to the 'G.

I'd be careful putting those letters in consecutively in this thread.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Cricket fans face security fence at the MCG

To become known colloquially as "the Muslim fence"...

God I hate this idea.

 

[Jeremias]

3 Because it will make it more difficult to quickly get into the event

I find it very hard to comprehend that this is a legitimate reason why some are against the fence.

 

[pazza]

Well it's happened...a decade too late but it has happened. How it wasn't implemented after the 2006 Commonwealth Games boggles the mind. It works.

More fans will go knowing that they will be safer and despite the delays in entering, they would put up with that in order for their safety. Embrace it folks.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

What a waste of time and money. To do significant structural damage you'd need a car bomb. If you were going to use a backpack then public transport is a no brainer in terms of greater casualty and general disruption.

 

[pazza]

I'm all for the metal and bag checks, but surely the only effect a fence will have is to trap people inside the stadium if such an event was to occur. Would love to see the argument for the fence because it seems like unfathomable stupidity to me.

As someone in the security industry let me explain.

The fence is meant to be a physical deterent. What they don't tell you is what levels of security and police will be on the inside of the fence itself.

Based on what was in place for the Commonwealth Games just a decade ago, here is how it worked then.

The x-ray screening points and bag checking points were the only entry and exit points into and out of the MCG itself. The number of points was at least 50, with 5 guards in each. Patrolling the internal perimeter of the MCG, were another dozen guards, plus at least 50 police officers.

You then had event security and stadium security, with access to CCTV of the perimeter and the venue. It was a staggering exercise and not a single thing happened.

I see people asking questions about gunmen...the safest place in that regard is actually in the grandstands, and if necessary the playing arena itself.

Seems to me we have a lot of paranoid people but, I hope the above explains it a bit better than random guessing.

 

[The 747]

As someone in the security industry let me explain.

The fence is meant to be a physical deterent. What they don't tell you is what levels of security and police will be on the inside of the fence itself.

Based on what was in place for the Commonwealth Games just a decade ago, here is how it worked then.

The x-ray screening points and bag checking points were the only entry and exit points into and out of the MCG itself. The number of points was at least 50, with 5 guards in each. Patrolling the internal perimeter of the MCG, were another dozen guards, plus at least 50 police officers.

You then had event security and stadium security, with access to CCTV of the perimeter and the venue. It was a staggering exercise and not a single thing happened.

I see people asking questions about gunmen...the safest place in that regard is actually in the grandstands, and if necessary the playing arena itself.

Seems to me we have a lot of paranoid people but, I hope the above explains it a bit better than random guessing.

As someone who works in the security industry you have an absolute vested interest in this stuff continuing, expanding and keeping you in work, no offence. In the years since 9-11, thousands of security people have been paid millions and millions of dollars to "keep us safe" and have a vested interest in making us more scared so we purchase more security products to "keep us safe".

Then when something happens which was not anticipated (because security primarily is about preventing the last attack not anticipating the next one) we have to buy more and more security to "keep us safe" and so the game continues. Not intended to have a go at you personally, but that's how your industry works.

 

[PP34]

Problem with this stuff is that terrorists always seem to hit places that are totally unexpected. Who would've expected them to attack that theatre in Paris where a relatively low fame band was playing?

 

[pazza]

As someone who works in the security industry you have an absolute vested interest in this stuff continuing, expanding and keeping you in work, no offence. In the years since 9-11, thousands of security people have been paid millions and millions of dollars to "keep us safe" and have a vested interest in making us more scared so we purchase more security products to "keep us safe".

Then when something happens which was not anticipated (because security primarily is about preventing the last attack not anticipating the next one) we have to buy more and more security to "keep us safe" and so the game continues. Not intended to have a go at you personally, but that's how your industry works.

Yeah ok.

Mind you, the sue of this style of security should be used to people by now.

Let's look at airports. Every major domestic and international airport in the world has x-ray screening of bags and people. If it wasn't there, then more lives would be at risk.

Further, this level of security might help rein in soccer fans and the flares they use..they are already illegal but, screening the fans and their bags would see a lot more confiscation of these prohibited items, therefore actually being an important law enforcement tool.

 

[jatz14]

Problem with this stuff is that terrorists always seem to hit places that are totally unexpected. Who would've expected them to attack that theatre in Paris where a relatively low fame band was playing?

That they would hit targets like theatres and cafes was both entirely predictable and predicted. What was not predicted was that it would be that theatre. There have been discussions for months (years) about the evolution of terrorist strategy towards 'soft' targets. Specifically, large public gatherings in places with poor security, exactly like a theatre hosting a not well known band, where have you been?

The entire point of the MCG security is to make it a non soft target, that they avoid or cannot get into.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I find it very hard to comprehend that this is a legitimate reason why some are against the fence.

It is an issue for many

People just hate waiting
It's actually quite funny when you think about it

Reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Mensa remove green lights because people drive faster....

 

[MaddAdam]

In experience people working in the security industry are generally the biggest crooks in town.

 

[PP34]

That they would hit targets like theatres and cafes was both entirely predictable and predicted. What was not predicted was that it would be that theatre. There have been discussions for months (years) about the evolution of terrorist strategy towards 'soft' targets. Specifically, large public gatherings in places with poor security, exactly like a theatre hosting a not well known band, where have you been?

The entire point of the MCG security is to make it a non soft target, that they avoid or cannot get into.

Never recall reading anything about that at all

 

[The 747]

Yeah ok.

Mind you, the sue of this style of security should be used to people by now.

Let's look at airports. Every major domestic and international airport in the world has x-ray screening of bags and people. If it wasn't there, then more lives would be at risk.

Further, this level of security might help rein in soccer fans and the flares they use..they are already illegal but, screening the fans and their bags would see a lot more confiscation of these prohibited items, therefore actually being an important law enforcement tool.

As a general proposition if you prevented people from gathering in public, they would be safer. If you don't then more lives are at risk.

There is a trade off between the risks. In the case of an airport the risk is very high due to the nature of air travel, which partially justifies the security. It does not follow that we should extend that security everywhere, although the security industry have a vested interest in that happening so will advocate for it to happen.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Don't need it, don't want it

 

[Giants FC]

If any terrorist attrocity or scare did happen at the MCG, the fence would make it a lot harder to evacuate - a potential Hillsborough.

 

[pazza]

If any terrorist attrocity or scare did happen at the MCG, the fence would make it a lot harder to evacuate - a potential Hillsborough.

See this sort of paranoia doesn't help.

The fence and the entry points where bags will be searched properly and every patron being wanded by metal detector will nullify any attempt at terrorism.

How do we know this?

The 2006 Commonwealth Games.

I cannot recall one single incident at the MCG because the security measures in place were a deterent. Now keeping in mind the crowds the MCG got throughout the event...90-100K for both ceremonies and every competition day. Remember...any trouble has to get past the deterent first.

Secondly, anything that does happen would be confined to either side of the ground - not the full amount. The safest place is actually inside the grandstands or on the playing arena.

 

[jatz14]

If any terrorist attrocity or scare did happen at the MCG, the fence would make it a lot harder to evacuate - a potential Hillsborough.

The fence will be outside the MCG, some way outside. If something happens inside the MCG, the choke points are the exits from the ground, not the exits through the fence. The fences at Hillsborough were inside.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

See this sort of paranoia doesn't help.

The fence and the entry points where bags will be searched properly and every patron being wanded by metal detector will nullify any attempt at terrorism.

How do we know this?

The 2006 Commonwealth Games.

I cannot recall one single incident at the MCG because the security measures in place were a deterent. Now keeping in mind the crowds the MCG got throughout the event...90-100K for both ceremonies and every competition day. Remember...any trouble has to get past the deterent first.

Secondly, anything that does happen would be confined to either side of the ground - not the full amount. The safest place is actually inside the grandstands or on the playing arena.

I have a rock that keeps tigers away