Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

[the PILL]

Two things I would love to happen now that’s it’s Round 2 and we have been smashed twice!

1. Caracalla as Senior Coach

And this one might not be popular but

2. Luke Hodge at our club at some capacity if he retires this year

I like the Hodge idea as it would put a stern dent in the FIGJAM problem we have with players just going through the motions, yet thinking they are all that and batting us away with cliches...

Brisbane is a fantastic modern model of a club being stripped back and the right processes being implemented.

 

[quotemokc]

I like the Hodge idea as it would put a stern dent in the FIGJAM problem we have with players just going through the motions, yet thinking they are all that and batting us away with cliches...

Brisbane is a fantastic modern model of a club being stripped back and the right processes being implemented.

Lets not crown Brisbane just yet.

Also worth remembering how long they have been down the bottom.

 

[DapperJong]

Brisbane is a fantastic modern model of a club being stripped back and the right processes being implemented.

I think I prefer Collingwood as this example. They were in trouble and cleaned out a lot of junk.

Now they are a club capable of developing players like Chris Mayne into very solid players.

 

[the PILL]

I think I prefer Collingwood as this example. They were in trouble and cleaned out a lot of junk.

Now they are a club capable of developing players like Chris Mayne into very solid players.

Good point and probably more relevant to a big 4 clubs ego getting in the way but I believe they already had the cattle yet Buckley was at sea with his ego (to his credit, was able to adjust)...

Their review certainly changed a lot of attitudes for them and as much as i hate to admit it, they are very unified.

We are too busy slapping ourselves on the back when Dodoro has a win in the classifieds and its got to change...

 

[Vindicater]

Brett Ratten please

 

[BrunoV]

I wouldn't bother replacing a coach before getting an independent assessment of the list.

I don't know how you do it or who you can trust. Maybe a panel with a few different voices.

Roos is the obvious choice but he's also my answer for everything.

Merv Keane might be someone else who can provide a useful insight free of the burden of being an employee.

Mark William's has a lot of cross-over experience as a premiership coach and builder of a list and also an assistant at Richmond.

Hird would make sense but for the politics of it.

Maybe Dunstall or someone else who was part of the brains at Hawthorn prior to the appointment of Clarkson (I.e. not Dermie).

In my view we only get the "right coach" when everyone is on the same page about the quality of what we have at our disposal.

It's the reason sides on the bottom frequently find the right coach. It's also the reason premiership coaches often dont work second time around for middle of the range clubs. They're being brought in to work miracles when it is usually the case that they take years to build teams to win premierships first time around.

If there are examples of coaches in this scenario who get the chance start again, I cant think of any.

 

[Bombermania]

Lets not forget that under Hird we still lost games 'that we should have won'

Hird wasn't even that good a captain for we lost a match in 2000 we shouldn't have.

 

[quotemokc]

If Woosh goes we need someone young with fresh ideas that has no allegiance to the current squad in any capacity.

 

[dnbassador]

If Woosh goes we need someone young with fresh ideas that has no allegiance to the current squad in any capacity.

What if Clarkson is available?

 

[Walesy]

Can someone point me towards the guy handing out the pitchforks? I have a mob to join.

 

[Bombers_95]

Alright did some research. heres a list of guys that would be in the mix IF Woosha gets cut.

1. James Hird. Media seems to be pushing it and not entirely against it given the players played for him and he had us playing some decent footy in 2012 and 2013, all be it under questionable circumstances. Would say its long odds.

2. Brett Ratten. Coached before, spent years at the Hawthorn Coaching school of excellence. Already can see improvements in St Kilda in 2 weeks with him as part of the coaching group.

3. Scott Burns. Has done multiple apprenticeships. Was close on a number of occasions for other roles. Currently at the Hawthorn coaching school of excellence.

4. John Barker. Forgotten commodity like Burns. Close on a number of occasions for the Carlton, Gold Coast, Adelaide and Brisbane roles. Issue is he hasn't been part of a successful environment at the Blue Baggers.

5. Blake Caracella. Success is following him so could be a left field choice.

6. Ben Rutten. Only issue is although he is viewed as a senior coach in waiting he is currently in the environment that is stinking it up in the first two weeks.

7. Dean Solomon. Essendon person, known as a players coach at Gold Coast.

 

[eth-dog]

Alright did some research. heres a list of guys that would be in the mix IF Woosha gets cut.

1. James Hird. Media seems to be pushing it and not entirely against it given the players played for him and he had us playing some decent footy in 2012 and 2013, all be it under questionable circumstances. Would say its long odds.

2. Brett Ratten. Coached before, spent years at the Hawthorn Coaching school of excellence. Already can see improvements in St Kilda in 2 weeks with him as part of the coaching group.

3. Scott Burns. Has done multiple apprenticeships. Was close on a number of occasions for other roles. Currently at the Hawthorn coaching school of excellence.

4. John Barker. Forgotten commodity like Burns. Close on a number of occasions for the Carlton, Gold Coast, Adelaide and Brisbane roles. Issue is he hasn't been part of a successful environment at the Blue Baggers.

5. Blake Caracella. Success is following him so could be a left field choice.

6. Ben Rutten. Only issue is although he is viewed as a senior coach in waiting he is currently in the environment that is stinking it up in the first two weeks.

7. Dean Solomon. Essendon person, known as a players coach at Gold Coast.

Hird isn't an option.

 

[Bombermania]

Alright did some research. heres a list of guys that would be in the mix IF Woosha gets cut.

1. James Hird. Media seems to be pushing it and not entirely against it given the players played for him and he had us playing some decent footy in 2012 and 2013, all be it under questionable circumstances. Would say its long odds.

2. Brett Ratten. Coached before, spent years at the Hawthorn Coaching school of excellence. Already can see improvements in St Kilda in 2 weeks with him as part of the coaching group.

3. Scott Burns. Has done multiple apprenticeships. Was close on a number of occasions for other roles. Currently at the Hawthorn coaching school of excellence.

4. John Barker. Forgotten commodity like Burns. Close on a number of occasions for the Carlton, Gold Coast, Adelaide and Brisbane roles. Issue is he hasn't been part of a successful environment at the Blue Baggers.

5. Blake Caracella. Success is following him so could be a left field choice.

6. Ben Rutten. Only issue is although he is viewed as a senior coach in waiting he is currently in the environment that is stinking it up in the first two weeks.

7. Dean Solomon. Essendon person, known as a players coach at Gold Coast.

From that list it should be out of Brett Ratten and Blake Caracella with maybe a Burns or Barker joining the coaching panel I would be open to giving Whoosa a job in the football department.

 

[rumply]

yes lets please just stop with the Hird stuff, aint happening. & I doubt Woosha will be going anywhere provided he can conjure up a couple wins by the break...

& besides, wont it cost a fortune to pay him out? & there's a football dept cap to worry about these days

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Forget replacing Woosha. If the players aren't going to turn up for a 300 game, premiership winning coach then who are they going to turn up for? We've had the same problem with unaccountable football for years and probably under three different coaches.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Forget replacing Woosha. If the players aren't going to turn up for a 300 game, premiership winning coach then who are they going to turn up for? We've had the same problem with unaccountable football for years and probably under three different coaches.

Someone who gets furious when we play like a bunch of spuds?

 

[ant555]

See I don’t get why players who haven’t always been midfielders would find this hard. Our forwards do this when there is a contest in the forward line and same with our defenders when it is in the back line.

Why do you think Raz, Tippa, McKenna etc could not deal with judging that?

I am not totally sure other than Instinct when you learn the game. I suppose it is what separates the really good midfielders from the rest. Of course there are those good inside midfielders that also just hunt the footy.
One thing I remember with Hocking is that when he started off playing the run with role he had difficulty staying off the contest when he was playing on Pendlebury or Judd as he had played all his life as the inside extractor and those to would be off and gone given half a chance. The issue is to get the balance right which is why I have been saying we need a proper inside man as well as the likes of Shiel and Merritt who are 60% outside 40% inside players. Once we get too many flankers playing it blows the balance out.

 

[ant555]

Two things I would love to happen now that’s it’s Round 2 and we have been smashed twice!

1. Caracalla as Senior Coach

And this one might not be popular but

2. Luke Hodge at our club at some capacity if he retires this year

Balke is not interesting in senior coach.
Would love Hodge but he will not come to us.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm biased, like if I was playing a football manager game or picking a team from scratch (all things being equal which just looks like a normal team) I probably wouldn't pick our mids, other than Sheil and maybe Merrett (though Merrett's game is largely wasted getting cheap kicks in the defensive half of the ground, he could be used effectively).

I also think we're genuinely a bottom 4 or 5 midfield in the AFL as a collective. At the current rate I'd really only look at GC, St Kilda and Calrton as being quantifiably worse when it comes to output (though Carlton really only because they are young - I expect them to fly past us).

Someone will start talking about all Australians and stats but the collective is terrible. It's certainly bottom 3 least physically imposing and definitely in terms of overall physical capability.

I doubt we have a ball winner who is genuinely in the top 50 in the AFL in that one skill. Seriously, that's about 2.5 a team and there are lists with 6 players or more.

You'd think that in a group skewed like that someone could run hard. Shit, you'd think there would be at least one or two quality endurance athletes to work defensively.

We keep pointing to clearance stats but I cant reconcile that with a group of players that gets smashed in actual contested situations as was the case against GWS.

Neither contested possessions nor clearances require a physical dispute between opposition players for the ball. All they really require is for no one to have possession of the ball in certain scenarios. I dont have hours or even the technological capability to create videos of it but I am confident it's why our numbers look okay.

Obviously there is a strength to this one aspect of our clearance work, that is also assisted by the quality of Bellchambers ruck work. I think if you play the percentages there are enough occasions when a clearance or stoppage scenario ends in space for our mids to be effective and they can be but they're not serious.

You might decry the stats, but even they back you up at the moment.

Consider this (two games in)

Contested possessions:

Shiel ranked 13th
Heppell ranked 49th

Centre clearances:

The most we have is Stringer with 2 for the year, which is =63rd in the league.

Clearances:

Shiel ranked 29th

For whatever reason, we have nobody who is willing or able to win the ball. That’s it. That’s the crux of it.

 

[BrunoV]

You might decry the stats, but even they back you up at the moment.

Consider this (two games in)

Contested possessions:

Shiel ranked 13th
Heppell ranked 49th

Centre clearances:

The most we have is Stringer with 2 for the year, which is =63rd in the league.

Clearances:

Shiel ranked 29th

For whatever reason, we have nobody who is willing or able to win the ball. That’s it. That’s the crux of it.

I dont dismiss stats out of hand, conveniently enough.

I would basically dismiss one off All Australian selection as an indicator of anything give that the quality of the selectors opinions is in the public domain on enough issues for me to have no faith that they dont just get sucked into hype and stories. Continued selection is obviously a bit different because it almost always speaks for itself.

My suspicion is that stats are, often as not, used to explain what a commentator did not watch or to explain away what we as fans see

 

[Burzum]

I wouldn't bother replacing a coach before getting an independent assessment of the list.

I don't know how you do it or who you can trust. Maybe a panel with a few different voices.

Roos is the obvious choice but he's also my answer for everything.

Merv Keane might be someone else who can provide a useful insight free of the burden of being an employee.

Mark William's has a lot of cross-over experience as a premiership coach and builder of a list and also an assistant at Richmond.

Hird would make sense but for the politics of it.

Maybe Dunstall or someone else who was part of the brains at Hawthorn prior to the appointment of Clarkson (I.e. not Dermie).

In my view we only get the "right coach" when everyone is on the same page about the quality of what we have at our disposal.

It's the reason sides on the bottom frequently find the right coach. It's also the reason premiership coaches often dont work second time around for middle of the range clubs. They're being brought in to work miracles when it is usually the case that they take years to build teams to win premierships first time around.

If there are examples of coaches in this scenario who get the chance start again, I cant think of any.

Getting Roos in to review the list would be a good call, I think he was one of very few, if not the only one, who didn't tip us for the 8. He clearly sees something wrong with the list all the other know-it-alls don't see plus he is a respected figure.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Someone who gets furious when we play like a bunch of spuds?

Yeah sweet, let's start with having someone in the leadership group who react like that. When are the two Davids going to give players a serve?

 

[yodellinhank]

Getting Roos in to review the list would be a good call, I think he was one of very few, if not the only one, who didn't tip us for the 8. He clearly sees something wrong with the list all the other know-it-alls don't see plus he is a respected figure.

Mick Malthouse also wasn't convinced we were any good.

 

[BrunoV]

Mick Malthouse also wasn't convinced we were any good.

Forgot about him. Would be a perfect person to assess our list. His sides have always been the polar opposite of the shit we've tried to play for most of the last 10 years.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I worry a bit for Worsfold. The players and club were smashed from pillar to post last week, and the first half they responded with against St Kilda was just as bad.

There’s very little - if any - basic motivation happening.