Opinion Senior coach options

[Defacto]

I'm with Shaun, just announce him already. Can't believe were wasting money on this ass covering exercise when were already posting massive losses

The board has made their call, don't waste the clubs money covering your ass

 

[Barrels]

Richmond board giving North a run for their money. Deluded.

Ripping comments, like this peanut...

Yes it does. Trengrove, Toumpas, Viney, Watts, Clarke(traded),Tyson, Pick#9. Plenty to work with and brought to the club over the last four years and are very young. Most of Saints talented players are in their twilight years and to make things worse they lost McEvoy and Dalsanto.

Chocco is already behind the 8 ball I'm sure he would have loved to have retained McEvoy and DalSanto and more than likely traded very differently. Saints have had a terrible off season.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

I'm with Shaun, just announce him already. Can't believe were wasting money on this ass covering exercise when were already posting massive losses

The board has made their call, don't waste the clubs money covering your ass

I wouldn't call it wasting money.

Certainly hope I'm not anyway

Hey look my avatars back.

 

[sauce_head]

Would they have a case to take us to court? You wouldnt think so. Its Choco who would be breaking the contract not our club. But If we or the AFL paid out his contract to Richmond can't see how they can sue him for damages either.

I can't see how they would get anything above recruitment costs.

 

[SaintLex]

If that article is right and we've only approached Williams and a couple of guys from within the Saints then that's it. Pretty obvious it's a done deal, just get him in already.

 

[VDS66]

The problem is...

If they just appoint Williams and it doesn't work out, you guys will be crying that we didn't examine all options etc.

Dammed if it does and dammed if it doesn't.

How about we let the club do what it deems to be professional, rather than just bucking to the whims of a few supporters?

 

[Noidenous]

The problem is...

If they just appoint Williams and it doesn't work out, you guys will be crying that we didn't examine all options etc.

Dammed if it does and dammed if it doesn't.

How about we let the club do what it deems to be professional, rather than just bucking to the whims of a few supporters?

... or the traditionally fickle senior player base.

 

[VDS66]

... or the traditionally fickle senior player base.

I am not hearing any players carry on about the process etc.

 

[Noidenous]

I am not hearing any players carry on about the process etc.

It's not in their contracts, as I'm led to believe.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

... or the traditionally fickle senior player base.

We don't have "senior players".
We have Lenny, Nick , Fisher, Joey, Schneider and Dempster.

If we are talking about disgruntled "Nick and Joey" here ( remembering that Fisher refused the big bucks he would have been offered to go to GWS to remain at "Seaford" under "Watters") and they remain "fickle" and demanding they can "fick off"

 

[Noidenous]

We don't have "senior players".
We have Lenny, Nick , Fisher, Joey, Schneider and Dempster.

If we are talking about disgruntled "Nick and Joey" here ( remembering that Fisher refused the big bucks he would have been offered to go to GWS to remain at "Seaford" under "Watters") and they remain "fickle" and demanding they can "fick off"

Historically (recent and otherwise), we haven't told them to 'pull their head in', regardless of which 'big swinging dick' in particular is feeling squished.

 

[Dopey BJ]

Would they have a case to take us to court? You wouldnt think so. Its Choco who would be breaking the contract not our club. But If we or the AFL paid out his contract to Richmond can't see how they can sue him for damages either.

I am sure he would have a clause in his contract that releases him if he gets a senior gig.
It would be standard in all assistant coaches contracts

 

[Dopey BJ]

Richmond are just huffing and puffing pretending they're a power club.

 

[goodie23]

Richmond board's a pretty good source of comedy at the moment on this topic

 

[SaintsSeptember]

As far as work contracts go no-one can force you to work. The contracts do more to protect the contractor than the company contracting them. ( ie you quit your job to go to a contract position and they put you off a short time later ... doh ).

But I think they can stipulate that you cant work in a similar role for a competitor.
Now when you look at coaching just about any couch will be under contract at any given time.
Gary Ayres would probably be under contract at Port, would that stop him becoming an AFL or assistant AFL coach? So it seems to be pretty much industry standard that they can get out if a better position is available. So would Chocco be in a non-standard contract? Why would someone of his experience and status have agreed to a contract giving more power to the club? ( I think the answer is , he wouldn't ).

If anyone could have sued St Kilda could have, with Lyon still having a year to go. Not sure what they could have done though, gone for the costs of appointing a replacement maybe.
In the end individual contracts still come under employment laws.

 

[Dopey BJ]

As far as work contracts go no-one can force you to work. The contracts do more to protect the contractor than the company contracting them. ( ie you quit your job to go to a contract position and they put you off a short time later ... doh ).

But I think they can stipulate that you cant work in a similar role for a competitor.
Now when you look at coaching just about any couch will be under contract at any given time.
Gary Ayres would probably be under contract at Port, would that stop him becoming an AFL or assistant AFL coach? So it seems to be pretty much industry standard that they can get out if a better position is available. So would Chocco be in a non-standard contract? Why would someone of his experience and status have agreed to a contract giving more power to the club? ( I think the answer is , he wouldn't ).

If anyone could have sued St Kilda could have, with Lyon still having a year to go. Not sure what they could have done though, gone for the costs of appointing a replacement maybe.
In the end individual contracts still come under employment laws.

I remember at time reading the out clause he had, had a 3 month notice option.
I thought at the time they should have sat him a office at Moorabbin and had him doing opposition analysis for 3 months.

 

[Plugger35]

Not such a bad thing Robert Harvey has pulled out, as much as I loved him as a player I'm not convinced he'd be a great senior coach.

Kim Hagdorn on 6PR this morning seemed to think Adam Kingsley is firming as a contender, not sure if he has any inside info or is just talking shit as per usual.

Can't say I'd be thrilled with Kingsley getting the job, would prefer Tudor or Richardson out of the assistant coach contenders but they seem to be out of the frame.

I'm still lukewarm on Choco, not convinced he's the right coach for where we are at.

 

[Kildonan]

The decision of who we sign as coach is crucial for our club.

While I understand that Mark Williams is odds on favourite to be selected, I hold some reservations that he is the man for the job.
This is why I think the process of forming a committee and interviewing a number of prospects is vital.

If Williams is selected I will get behind him 100% because we need the decision to work.
I have too much (emotionally and financially) invested in this club to hold a grudge against a player or a coach.

If we look at our history, we have allowed the players to dictate to us who they want as coach way too often. It has happened again. This is a recipe for failure.

Our most successful periods have almost all been associated with longer term coaches.
We have only had four coaches in our history who have lasted longer than four years. Which explains much of our lack of success.

Allan Jeans coached us from 1961 until 1976 and remains our only premiership coach

The other three coaches who held the position for 5 years or so are:

Stan Alves 1994 - 1998 (13, 14, 10, 2nd, and 6th)
Grant Thomas [2001], 2002 - 2006 (15, 11, 3rd, 3rd, and 7th)
Ross Lyon 2007 - 2011 (9, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, and 7th)

 

[Dopey BJ]

The decision of who we sign as coach is crucial for our club.

While I understand that Mark Williams is odds on favourite to be selected, I hold some reservations that he is the man for the job.
This is why I think the process of forming a committee and interviewing a number of prospects is vital.

If Williams is selected I will get behind him 100% because we need the decision to work. I have too much (emotionally and financially) invested in this club to hold a grudge against a player or a coach.

If we look at our history, we have allowed the players to dictate to us who they want as coach way too often. It has happened again. This is a recipe for failure.

Our most successful periods have almost all been associated with longer term coaches.
We have only had four coaches in our history who have lasted longer than four years. Which explains our lack of success.

Allan Jeans coached us from 1961 until 1976 and remains our only premiership coach

The other three coaches who held the position for 5 years or so are:

Stan Alves 1994 - 1998 (13, 14, 10, 2nd, and 6th)
Grant Thomas [2001], 2002 - 2006 (15, 11, 3rd, 3rd, and 7th)
Ross Lyon 2007 - 2011 (9, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, and 7th)

Totally agree, l remember Banger saying every time a new coach came in it was like starting over, the first 2 years were an adjustment period.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Totally agree, l remember Banger saying every time a new coach came in it was like starting over, the first 2 years were an adjustment period.

The thing is, coaches like Thommo WERE the entire football department.
I'd be pretty sure that Pelchan and co wont allow someone to come in and upend what they've been doing for the last few years.

 

[Dopey BJ]

The thing is, coaches like Thommo WERE the entire football department.
I'd be pretty sure that Pelchan and co wont allow someone to come in and upend what they've been doing for the last few years.

l get the feeling the new coach will be in no doubt what his job description is, your the coach, coach the team.
A settling in period won't bother us at the stage of development we are at.

 

[Kildonan]

Totally agree, l remember Banger saying every time a new coach came in it was like starting over, the first 2 years were an adjustment period.

The great Allan Jeans took until his sixth season to win a premiership and he had a brilliant playing group
Not one of our subsequent coaches has lasted to coach six seasons.

We need stability. We need to commit to a coach and have an era of success.

While our club is experiencing this successful era we need to capitalise on that success by setting up structures to ensure future financial viability.

Pokies might not be the way to go but we need to do something. Our biggest asset is the fan base. We need to reinvest in that fan base by involving the kids. Especially kids in the south east of Melbourne, but also in every city and almost every footy comp - there is a team called the Saints - they may not be affiliated but they wear our colours and they sing our song and they cheer for the real Saints. The club needs to capitalise on this enormous grass roots base. Give them free shit, visit clubs in the off season, have photos with the principle people in these clubs - attend trophy day - that sort of thing

 

[Sunshine Saint]

The great Allan Jeans took until his sixth season to win a premiership and he had a brilliant playing group
Not one of our subsequent coaches has lasted to coach six seasons.

We need stability. We need to commit to a coach and have an era of success.

While our club is experiencing this successful era we need to capitalise on that success by setting up structures to ensure future financial viability.

Pokies might not be the way to go but we need to do something. Our biggest asset is the fan base. We need to reinvest in that fan base by involving the kids. Especially kids in the south east of Melbourne, but also in every city and almost every footy comp - there is a team called the Saints - they may not be affiliated but they wear our colours and they sing our song and they cheer for the real Saints. The club needs to capitalise on this enormous grass roots base. Give them free shit, visit clubs in the off season, have photos with the principle people in these clubs - attend trophy day - that sort of thing

There is a great new club promotion Kildonan,

"Saints Together"

 

[VDS66]

Nah, we should tell THEIR mum.

Knowing them, we can expect a truck load of chicken sh1t to be dumped on Williams'front lawn.

 

[sammm]

Gosh that whole thing with Bruce drives me crazy.

Him saying independently, "Gee, it'd be great if Choco could be coach at the Saints" is one thing.

Him being asked, "Would you like Choco to be your coach, given he's the frontrunner?" And him answering the question by saying, "Sure, I would love to play under the guy who is most likely to be my boss in a week... but I'd be happy with whoever they pick..." is quite another.

What else was the guy supposed to say. These days that's how the media ask players a question. feed them a line where the only answer can be yes of course.. its called closed questioning or leading questions. If you wanted to ask Bruce an open question the media would have asked Bruce, so Bruce who would you like to have as a coach.? But they don't