Roast Shame on some people

[J0NNY B]

Thats quite an assumption you're making there.

There are a heap of assumptions you could make about what the injury was prior, why did he play, was the GWS injury related etc etc. But the two points you have highlighted are facts.
1. Soft tissue issue against Carlton
2. Selected in team against GWS

 

[MinerBoy]

You say it was just bad luck?

You say don't blame the club?

Big Buddy couldn't train properly all week as he had a sore Hammy. Do you think if we rested him for the easiest match of the season he might be ok right now???

I'll concede there was some bad luck at play, but to say the club is completely blameless is staggering...wow!

Didn't train and couldn't train aren't the same. He didn't train so as to have an easy week and then test later on. Apparently passed the tests.

And if it is a legit hammy anyway then missing one week against the easiest side in the AFL makes no difference because he would still need 2-3 to get over it anyway. The 2-3 has been shifted from starting last week to starting this week.

 

[Goldnbrown]

If Buddy had not played... and lets say for whatever reason we did not play well and only won by 34 points... the same people who are complaining would be all over the boards saying the club stuffed up... they should not have rested Buddy.. they took it easy and lost an opportunity to boost % which is going to be vital this season...do you people not see that whatever the club does is wrong in some of your eyes?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

There are a heap of assumptions you could make about what the injury was prior, why did he play, was the GWS injury related etc etc. But the two points you have highlighted are facts.
1. Soft tissue issue against Carlton
2. Selected in team against GWS

And you said Frankins body told him to rest. Did it? You assume it did. Yet Franklin was telling anyone who would listen that he was fine and would play.

You also said that the club made him play. Once again, you assume this is the case. Dare I suggest that Franklin had more than a few words about how he was right to go.

 

[Dinner Plate]

This is a very negative place at times. If you believed what you read on here, Clinton Young's career was over last year.

Criticising players, or club staff, when they do not perform to the expected standard of professional football is the stock in trade of us armchair coaches on this board.

Even with the occasional exclusive tidbit of behind-the-scenes news that crops up in here, there are a few facts about the Buddy debacle that bear repeating;

• he barely trained, if at all, during the week
• even if scans came up clear (which is speculation) they are not 100%
• so, there was a risk involved in playing him
• the downside of the risk was missing him for important games against Coll and Ess
• the upside was getting his 500th out of the way and a big % boosting win

The downside was far greater than the upside, IMO. The risk was not worth the reward. The professionals got it wrong. Badly.

That does not mean Hawthorn can't win all four of the coming games. But it has put the club at a unnecessary disadvantage — a disadvantage the Hawks can ill afford.

And so, for posters to hop on their soap boxes and decry those of us who question the decision to play Buddy, is the bigger overreaction.

 

[MinerBoy]

Criticising players, or club staff, when they do not perform to the expected standard of professional football is the stock in trade of us armchair coaches on this board.

Even with the occasional exclusive tidbit of behind-the-scenes news that crops up in here, there are a few facts about the Buddy debacle that bear repeating;

• he barely trained, if at all, during the week
• even if scans came up clear (which is speculation) they are not 100%
• so, there was a risk involved in playing him
• the downside of the risk was missing him for important games against Coll and Ess
• the upside was getting his 500th out of the way and a big % boosting win

The downside was far greater than the upside, IMO. The risk was not worth the reward. The professionals got it wrong. Badly.


That does not mean Hawthorn can't win all four of the coming games. But it has put the club at a unnecessary disadvantage — a disadvantage the Hawks can ill afford.

And so, for posters to hop on their soap boxes and decry those of us who question the decision to play Buddy, is the bigger overreaction.

You honestly think this had any bearing at all?

The decision was wrong in hindsight because he obviously wasn't 100% (so the club needs to check how they got that wrong) but the reason he was played would have been nothing more sinister than he was deemed fit to play.

Crowd numbers, meaningless milestone goals, %, merchandise.....I keep hearing all this as reasons why he was selected. I'm calling BS.

 

[Dinner Plate]

You honestly think this had any bearing at all?

I am speculating there, so I shouldn't have listed it as a fact. (Edit: Perhaps giving him an easy hit-out is a better way to speculate on the upside.)

It raises the question; what was the upside? Why was he played? And why shouldn't we question the decision?

Like every game they play, I still believe the Hawks have a chance of winning all of the next four games. But the chances of that happening are greatly diminished.

 

[MinerBoy]

I am speculating there, so I shouldn't have listed it as a fact. (Edit: Perhaps giving him an easy hit-out is a better way to speculate on the upside.)

It raises the question; what was the upside? Why was he played? And why shouldn't we question the decision?

Like every game they play, I still believe the Hawks have a chance of winning all of the next four games. But the chances of that happening are greatly diminished.

Well if he was thought to be OK, then there was no reason not to play him.

Asking "why did we pick a player we thought was 100%" makes no sense to me. The Hawks were playing and we picked our side based on who we thought was right to go.

The question should be "how come we got the assessment of whether he was 100% wrong".

Did they overlook/miss something in his assessment or was it just shit unlucky?

 

[Mighty P]

Common sense would dictate that he wasn't 100%, common sense would say "rest the man against the Giants". Not much common sense going around with this decision, is there?

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Common sense would dictate that he wasn't 100%, common sense would say "rest the man against the Giants". Not much common sense going around with this decision, is there?

Franklin himself said he loves playing football and he strikes me as the kind of guy who would want to play regardless. Club should have had the balls to override "his decision" to play. Why even take the smallest risk with the most important player in the comp when we have a series of 8 point games coming up. Astounding lack of accountability IMO.

 

[J0NNY B]

And you said Frankins body told him to rest. Did it? You assume it did. Yet Franklin was telling anyone who would listen that he was fine and would play.

You also said that the club made him play. Once again, you assume this is the case. Dare I suggest that Franklin had more than a few words about how he was right to go.

Yes, Franklin’s body was telling him/club he needed to pull back. But like most footballers he wanted to play. If Franklin felt good during the week but said he wanted to rest, you would be questioning Franklin in regards to commitment. The club however, with all their expertise should not have even needed to assess Franklin to conclude he was in need of a break. If Franklin was a sprinter about to compete in the Olympics, how do you think he would have been managed? Would his coach allow him to race in an irrelevant competition?

I did not say the club made him play. I said the club selected him, which indicates to the player they can play, should play, will play, whatever.

There are a lot of other assumptions being made on this topic, but these two are clearly facts.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Yes, Franklin’s body was telling him/club he needed to pull back. But like most footballers he wanted to play. If Franklin felt good during the week but said he wanted to rest, you would be questioning Franklin in regards to commitment. The club however, with all their expertise should not have even needed to assess Franklin to conclude he was in need of a break. If Franklin was a sprinter about to compete in the Olympics, how do you think he would have been managed? Would his coach allow him to race in an irrelevant competition?

I did not say the club made him play. I said the club selected him, which indicates to the player they can play, should play, will play, whatever.

There are a lot of other assumptions being made on this topic, but these two are clearly facts.

What's even more shocking IMO, is that Hurley entered Saturday nights game with hamstring tightness and then his hammy went pop. The club would have known about that. There's a history of players playing games with a bit of tightness or niggle in their hammy's and then tearing them. I'm still at a loss at why the club would risk him in a mickey mouse game, when our season is on the line in the next four weeks.

 

[Pessimistic]

The funy thing is, some comments are along he lines of "You can't believe a thing the club says" but the Gist is we are unhappy because the club has said Bud will be out for three.

Suppose he actually returns before then , what then ?

 

[Dr.J]

20 / 20 hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[PottSie2]

Still waiting for the OP to state what the facts were ?

Surely no-one here would have risked Buddy against GWS given the circumstances of the week prior ?

 

[mainehawk]

I for one think that when Bud doesn't play....we are unpredictable.....in an exciting way of course...we can still do it

 

[benneth]

Im not saying dont have an opinion, just hold fire and wait for a few facts to surface first

Yep, and stop acting like self entitled little wanksers

 

[Pessimistic]

My point is we don't know all the facts now, and we knew even less when we vented early on in the piece

We still formed closed conclusions though

 

[Gralin]

Every game every player is a risk of an injury/suspension they could have rested Buddy this week and he could still have injured his Hammy next week against the Doggies then people would be saying why did they risk him against the Doggies
They could have given him 2 weeks off and he could have had a poor game against the pies, then people would be saying why rest him when he is healthy.
The club appears to be taking the if the player can play then he does approach, Clarko stated this before the game, lets hope it's not a bad hammy and lets see what the boys can do without him

Also hoping that we get Hodge back and having an impact by the end of this month cause it's not looking good atm

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

So we are not allowed to express our views? What pathetic self righteous clap trap.

 

[H2F]

I get so sick and tired of the ********ers on here who try and tell me they are a better supporter than me because I dare question anything that the club does.

I have loved Hawthorn ever since a little boy. I remember being thrown around the clubrooms by guys like Leigh Matthews when I was 3 or so years old.

You are not a better supporter than me.

 

[TAITA]

I get so sick and tired of the ********ers on here who try and tell me they are a better supporter than me because I dare question anything that the club does.

I have loved Hawthorn ever since a little boy. I remember being thrown around the clubrooms by guys like Leigh Matthews when I was 3 or so years old.

You are not a better supporter than me.

No one is mate.

I reckon just by us all calling in here and talking footy, talking Hawthorn, demonstrates that we all absolutely love the club and the institution, no matter how diametrically opposed our views may be at times and no matter how much we may agree with each other at others.

We are family, and no one is more 'family' than anyone else.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

I get so sick and tired of the ********ers on here who try and tell me they are a better supporter than me because I dare question anything that the club does.

I have loved Hawthorn ever since a little boy. I remember being thrown around the clubrooms by guys like Leigh Matthews when I was 3 or so years old.

You are not a better supporter than me.

Well said.

Now brace for it...I hear them coming

 

[H2F]

TAITA you do not count because you are a brother and on top of that you defend players (which I agree with).

This is more the flack I have copped for questioning the club over Buddy, which let's face it was moronic. I am actually glad Buddy is getting a rest, but this does not change the fact that it was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

On top of that I am deeply disturbed at the Hodge situation and at this stage am concerned in how he has been managed.

 

[halfback dasher]

By the way , its a minor tear ....