Complete spud.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Shaw open to move - GWS the nominated club of choice post #1927
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Complete spud.
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
Well, if they're the same age they obviously have the same value in a trade. Just like me and... Dustin Fletcher... or something.
jmac70
On the porch
Interesting comment from Eddie this morning that Collingwood will attempt to mend the relationship with Heath IF a trade cannot be found. I am staggered by this approach. Surely the time to mend the relationship was BEFORE it got to this point? Moving good players on that don't fit the exact standard is the wrong way to go. The players, and coach for that matter, are not perfect and I fear that the club is being too rigid. Creative thinking is required. Play Shaw in a more attacking role that gives him a spark and benefits the team. Shipping him off like this is the easy option. I am not happy at all with this.
jmac70
On the porch
Are you related to him or something?
I don't like that we are treating players like trading cards either.
Duggy31
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They are both very gifted footballers. Sylvia fills a need at our club for goal kicking inside midfielders, and I'm sure you are much more valuable than Dustin Fletcher
jmac70
On the porch
In my opinion there is no comparison between Shaw and Sylvia as players other than their age and the first letter of their surname. Shaw is a big game player with a history of success whilst Sylvia is a front runner with a history of going missing when the pressure is on. Shaw out and Sylvia in would be a very poor result.
So long as you accept that we are in a mini rebuild due to the loss of senior players, and we are most unlikely to be in premiership contention for a few years. I still have doubt regarding Buckley's relationship with players and others at the club.When Bucks said the culture needs to change he ******* means business.
Good on him I reckon
I'm with you here jmac. Put him on the wing, or maybe a a half forward. Hell, play him on the ball.
Duggy31
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You could argue that could be attributed to the total lack of any sort of leadership at the Melbourne football club since David Schwartz retired. IMO being in a midfield with leaders like Ball, Pendlebury, and Beams calling the shots and to pull him into line when he goes quiet could work wonders. Obviously if Daisy is serious about going we won't be interested in free agents. But I think he's worth a look.
But the Hawks, Cats and Swans recruiters may do an even better job than Hine. Was Hine also responsible for Lynch, Russell and Young? I am a bit tired of people making out that he is the best recruiter in the land. He is good, but there are others who seem to be at least as competent in the role.The ones delisted are all over 30, Shaw 28 and won't get better, Daisy 26 and may be shot physically.. this is normal list management and I'll back Hine to pick another premiership squad out of his hat
In fairness, I think Heater and Sylvia are also pretty similar in terms of value to both teams?
That's assuming Sylvia brought a new lease on life with him; he's a major underperformer IMHO but would have the potential to be a very good third forward option.
Having said that, I hope Shaw stays, although now he's got an even bigger potential to be targeted to blow a fuse than ever, after all the recent events.
Tbone McGraw
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Would do that in a heartbeat but have a feeling Roos may want to keep pick 2 to appease the fans. However I think that is a fair deal for both parties.
If we did get pick 2, how do we then bundle it to gws for pick 1, which is boyd?
Duggy31
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If GWS keep pick 1 will they take Boyd 100%, especially if they get Buddy. Pick 2 might be enough.
I would not imagine that Melbourne would be remotely interested in a deal that involved pick 2 and Heath Shaw.
Mini I would say we are in almost full rebuild.
Look at how many players are gone since 2010/2011 then add Shaw, Thomas yet to come.
It's a huge turnover
C.Dawes
S.Wellingham
L.Brown
L.Davis
C.Tarrant
Krackour
Jolly
Johnson
Didak
Shaw*
Thomas*
MM moved on in '11
J.Fraser
S.O'bree
T.Lockyer
S.Prestigiacomo
Medhurst
* Haven't gone yet but are more then likely gone rather then staying.
That is 16 senior players off the list in 3 seasons.
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I am a bit upset at the Shaw deal. this is a bloke who bleeds Collingwood, was a hero in 2010 and has some personal issues which are well known. Where is all this 'side by side' stuff now. We stick with harry who has blown up at coaches but not Heater.
I hear all this stuff about Heater being isolated......well why do the coaches let it happen. They protect Maxwell from ever having to go 1:1 but not Heater. Ok Heater blows up in meetings but the kid has ADD so cut him some slack FCS. If they can figure out how to free him up then send him fwd or to a wing. Again we seem to be able to let other blokes play different roles (eg Ben Reid) but not him.
FWIW I dont think there is any comparison to Sylvia and Shaw. Sylvia has had some awful games this year where he barely touched the footy and his influence was zero.
I am going to use Lake as a benchmark. Hawks gave up circa pick 30 for a 30yo who had gone terribly year before with form and injuries. So with that in mind would want;
Geelong - Smedts / Christensen / Kersten / Guthrie (dont think would give up any of them) or 1st pick
Essendon - Crameri
North - First pick as sure wouldnt part with Black
Swans - Sam Reid or Shane Mumford
GWS - Adams and 2nd round pick maybe
Melbourne - Blease and #19
I hear all this stuff about Heater being isolated......well why do the coaches let it happen. They protect Maxwell from ever having to go 1:1 but not Heater. Ok Heater blows up in meetings but the kid has ADD so cut him some slack FCS. If they can figure out how to free him up then send him fwd or to a wing. Again we seem to be able to let other blokes play different roles (eg Ben Reid) but not him.
FWIW I dont think there is any comparison to Sylvia and Shaw. Sylvia has had some awful games this year where he barely touched the footy and his influence was zero.
I am going to use Lake as a benchmark. Hawks gave up circa pick 30 for a 30yo who had gone terribly year before with form and injuries. So with that in mind would want;
Geelong - Smedts / Christensen / Kersten / Guthrie (dont think would give up any of them) or 1st pick
Essendon - Crameri
North - First pick as sure wouldnt part with Black
Swans - Sam Reid or Shane Mumford
GWS - Adams and 2nd round pick maybe
Melbourne - Blease and #19
jmac70
On the porch
From the 2010 premiership team we have lost Dawes, Wellingham, Jolly, Dids, Johnson and Brown. 16 premiership players are currently still on the list, including Shaw and Daisy, along with some promising younger players...Grundy, Williams, Dwyer, J Thomas, Witts, Seadsman etc. Surely our window is still open?
I think that we should just target Sydney's pick 15.
Makes most sense to me.
Heath gets to play alongside his brother, Sydney are still in a premiership window and will be wanting to cash in on this team whilst they still have Adam Goodes and they have the sort of culture that will not tolerate Shaw's misdemeanours.
They also possess the pick I think most accurately reflects Shaw's worth and they have always being willing to take recylced players. They have also just lost Mattner...and of course Rhyce will miss a large chunk of next year with his knee most likely. Alex Johnson also did his knee and will probably take half a year to break back into the side.
So Heater addresses an immediate need for them. They always rely heavily on half back flankers at Sydney.
That Pick 15 becomes the perfect pick in an exchange for Taylor Adams.
Then we are left with 2 first round picks if Daisy leaves.
Otherwise I think the Shaw for Mumford trade may happen. A ruckman carries more value I would say, but Heater is the better player. In principle, I think this trade would work.
I just don't know if I want to spend big on another ruckman. It would tell me that we are confused as to whether we are rebuilding or shooting for a flag.
If we are shooting for a flag, we should be retaining Shaw and Thomas...and I probably would've hung onto Didak and Jolly for insurance. If we are rebuilding for 2015, then I'd prefer to get the pick. Grundy and Witts should be ready in 2 years given their rate of development this year.
Makes most sense to me.
Heath gets to play alongside his brother, Sydney are still in a premiership window and will be wanting to cash in on this team whilst they still have Adam Goodes and they have the sort of culture that will not tolerate Shaw's misdemeanours.
They also possess the pick I think most accurately reflects Shaw's worth and they have always being willing to take recylced players. They have also just lost Mattner...and of course Rhyce will miss a large chunk of next year with his knee most likely. Alex Johnson also did his knee and will probably take half a year to break back into the side.
So Heater addresses an immediate need for them. They always rely heavily on half back flankers at Sydney.
That Pick 15 becomes the perfect pick in an exchange for Taylor Adams.
Then we are left with 2 first round picks if Daisy leaves.
Otherwise I think the Shaw for Mumford trade may happen. A ruckman carries more value I would say, but Heater is the better player. In principle, I think this trade would work.
I just don't know if I want to spend big on another ruckman. It would tell me that we are confused as to whether we are rebuilding or shooting for a flag.
If we are shooting for a flag, we should be retaining Shaw and Thomas...and I probably would've hung onto Didak and Jolly for insurance. If we are rebuilding for 2015, then I'd prefer to get the pick. Grundy and Witts should be ready in 2 years given their rate of development this year.
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Dees might swap pick 2 for Heath and pick 10, they would laugh at a str8 swap for pick 2 and Heater.
Tbone McGraw
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They also get pick 10. A top 10 pick and Premiership player who is proven. Very fair deal for melbourne imo
Duggy31
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That's not what I'm saying, I was suggesting Pick 2 might be enough to get Tom
Boyd
Tbone McGraw
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If gws get buddy, they don't really need boyd so I am sure we could do a "dummy" trade. Pick 2 and our 4th round pick for pick 1 and their 5th round. We will only use those late picks to upgrade rookies anyway.
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