Shaw open to move - GWS the nominated club of choice post #1927

[KJpie]

Cost Sydney a premiership captain

Not sure who you mean BNK?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

They also get pick 10. A top 10 pick and Premiership player who is proven. Very fair deal for melbourne imo

Even with pick 10 involved, why would Melbourne want to give up pick 2 for someone who is unlikely to be around when they play in their next finals series?

 

[jmac70]

We have a good core but we are clearly in a rebuild phase and it will take a clean run injury wise to contend imo.

I agree that injuries will be a significant factor in our ability to remain in finals contention. We seem to be making it harder for ourselves by trading Shaw.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

please tell me which key players we have lost?

id love to know because we haven't lost any.

No we haven't lost any yet but I was referring to Daisy and Heater, both of whom I consider to be key players in our team. I was really just highlighting the feelings I have towards this off-season so far, not what has happened, but what might happen.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Even with pick 10 involved, why would Melbourne want to give up pick 2 for someone who is unlikely to be around when they play in their next finals series?

I can't answer that but they seem interested in getting established players. It would help them get improved results in the short term which could mean members and more money.

A proven player and still top 10 draft pick. I think they are getting better of this trade and normally wouldnt do it but appears shaw as good as gone so we may as well get best deal possible.

Who can predict when they will play their next finals series

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I'm with you here jmac. Put him on the wing, or maybe a a half forward. Hell, play him on the ball.

Maybe Bucks should just let all the players pick where they'd like to play.

Clokey might be getting a bit sick of FF so maybe he wants to play of a HBF. Blairy must be sick of part time mid part time FP pressure guy maybe he'll request to play ruck.

I can't believe more coaches don't just let the guys play where they want to.

 

[jmac70]

Maybe Bucks should just let all the players pick where they'd like to play.

Clokey might be getting a bit sick of FF so maybe he wants to play of a HBF. Blairy must be sick of part time mid part time FP pressure guy maybe he'll request to play ruck.

I can't believe more coaches don't just let the guys play where they want to.

It's not about letting the player pick his role mate. My point was that perhaps Bucks needs to work with Shaw on finding the best role he can play for the team. For all I know this may have already happened. It just seems to me that the club's first priority is to trade him and if that doesn't work try and repair the relationship. It seems almost certain that he is gone along with Daisy anyway.

 

[MAGPIE2013]

is this trade possible
shaw + pick 10 + our second round pick -------> pick 2 (melboure)+later draft pick (which will be earlier than ours)

pick 11 (daisy) + pick 2 +(goldsack)------> pick 1(gws) +taylor adams

 

[Old Spice]

Even with pick 10 involved, why would Melbourne want to give up pick 2 for someone who is unlikely to be around when they play in their next finals series?

Melbourne's list is quite young and clubs like to spread the list age out from a team balance as much as cap distribution point of view. You have to spend 95% (might even be 97.5 now) of the cap each year so there is no problem paying a Shaw higher end and once that contract winds up his wage would probably drop off while Hogan etc demand more money. If you have them all in a similar age bracket, suddenly they all want pay increases in a 2 year bloc and that will squeeze some out.

The other thing is for Melbourne to start winning games for their own solvency and membership and that requires a strong list from now. Roos might be able to do a Hinkley and get Melbourne in tip top shape within 2 years. Getting a good spine together is the hardest part, but Melbourne already have Hogan, Clarke, Garland, Watts, Frawley, Gawn and Dawes. You can quite quickly build around a group like that with mids and smalls in one or two drafts.

 

[No SPIN]

I don't like that we are treating players like trading cards either.

Sometimes players need a reality check - being told "we are happy to trade you" has a way of concentrating the mind.

There are many examples of players offered for trade reconciling with the club AND then playing well -, O'Keefe and Stevie J being just two.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Melbourne's list is quite young and clubs like to spread the list age out from a team balance as much as cap distribution point of view. You have to spend 95% (might even be 97.5 now) of the cap each year so there is no problem paying a Shaw higher end and once that contract winds up his wage would probably drop off while Hogan etc demand more money. If you have them all in a similar age bracket, suddenly they all want pay increases in a 2 year bloc and that will squeeze some out.

The other thing is for Melbourne to start winning games for their own solvency and membership and that requires a strong list from now. Roos might be able to do a Hinkley and get Melbourne in tip top shape within 2 years. Getting a good spine together is the hardest part, but Melbourne already have Hogan, Clarke, Garland, Watts, Frawley, Gawn and Dawes. You can quite quickly build around a group like that with mids and smalls in one or two drafts.

Well let's just hope then that Melbourne agree to this deal.

 

[SpongePie]

So is anyone worried about Swan in this whole situation?
Shaw, Didak, Taz, Johnno, and probable Daisy gone. Essentially all of his close mates. He is a guy who loves to play with his mates and win with his mates.

 

[Nebula1971]

Interesting comment from Eddie this morning that Collingwood will attempt to mend the relationship with Heath IF a trade cannot be found. I am staggered by this approach. Surely the time to mend the relationship was BEFORE it got to this point? Moving good players on that don't fit the exact standard is the wrong way to go. The players, and coach for that matter, are not perfect and I fear that the club is being too rigid. Creative thinking is required. Play Shaw in a more attacking role that gives him a spark and benefits the team. Shipping him off like this is the easy option. I am not happy at all with this.

Summed up perfectly..

It shows a lack of class if we are not prepared to mend the problem. I'm not suggesting they haven't tried, but it appears as though if an attempt was made, it was lame.

 

[Wooljay]

Seems like someone with Heath's disposition would definitely be better suited to playing on ball or in the F50, just because his brain fades wouldn't be as costly and his aggression would be an asset. Unfortunately he's a bloody good defender.

 

[esc0bar]

So is anyone worried about Swan in this whole situation?
Shaw, Didak, Taz, Johnno, and probable Daisy gone. Essentially all of his close mates. He is a guy who loves to play with his mates and win with his mates.

Maybe we could get some of those players back down to the club after the weekend games so Swanny has someone to kick the football around with?

 

[Old Spice]

Well let's just hope then that Melbourne agree to this deal.

Personally I think it might be a long shot but not beyond the realms.

I think GWS is probably the most likely scenario for us with pick 9 or Taylor Adams. Richmond's pick would give us 10, 11, 12 assuming Daisy leaves but I'm not keen to give Shaw up to an immediate rival.

 

[Kenno27]

Summed up perfectly..

It shows a lack of class if we are not prepared to mend the problem. I'm not suggesting they haven't tried, but it appears as though if an attempt was made, it was lame.

Lack of class and lack of skill by Buckley imv.

Football teams are made up of players with contrasting personalities. History has shown often that the most gifted ones can sometimes be head cases off and onfield.

A person has no business being coach if he can't deal, handle and change these contrasting personalities to a degree. He is simply in the wrong vocation.

If a coach thinks the solution to dealing with these contrasting personalities is to trade them, you will have a team full of bland players and the player buy in will be neutral.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Summed up perfectly..

It shows a lack of class if we are not prepared to mend the problem. I'm not suggesting they haven't tried, but it appears as though if an attempt was made, it was lame.

Perhaps it's not just the club that is the problem. Perhaps Heath just has a little bit to do with the current situation.

 

[Smokeyr67]

So is anyone worried about Swan in this whole situation?
Shaw, Didak, Taz, Johnno, and probable Daisy gone. Essentially all of his close mates. He is a guy who loves to play with his mates and win with his mates.

Care to rephrase that

 

[esc0bar]

Lack of class and lack of skill by Buckley imv.

Football teams are made up of players with contrasting personalities. History has shown often that the most gifted ones can sometimes be head cases off and onfield.

A person has no business being coach if he can't deal, handle and change these contrasting personalities to a degree. He is simply in the wrong vocation.

If a coach thinks the solution to dealing with these contrasting personalities is to trade them, you will have a team full of bland players and the player buy in will be neutral.

Sorry but you're only assuming that Buckley can't handle contrasting personalities. Shaw has never been a favourite of mine and for good reason. He is undisciplined. You could have a very strange personality at the club ala Brodie Grundy and you would be well respected internally. But the minute you start to act like a head**** on the field and cost your team (not once but at least 10 times) then all respect is lost. All of a sudden you are a individual not a team player. We need to be a team - no matter how much talent you possess.

 

[Bloben]

If you look at the examples of both Fremantle and Port Adelaide they have been successful by having a team that can play strictly to the game plan. If you watched Fremantle against Sydney last week you could see how well they performed as a cohesive unit and didn't rely on a couple of individual efforts.

Funnily enough the first half of Freos preliminary match reminded me of the first half of our preliminary final against Geelong in 2010. We were the team that played as one cohesive unit.

For some reason of late though we have had individuals who think they have free reign to play as individuals. Whether this is Buckley's fault or the fault of individual players who have become too arrogant and stubborn is hard to tell.

This may seem controversial however I don't see Fremantle as having a list that is much better than ours. What they have shown though is that a champion team is stronger than a team of champions. I also think they will win this weekend.

Our loss to Port in the elimination final has given our coaching staff a mandate to fix our current issues. They seem to have given Heater some strong feedback in his review which he accepts by the way and now thinks it would be best for him to play elsewhere.

I am 100% with Buckley on this.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Lack of class and lack of skill by Buckley imv.

Football teams are made up of players with contrasting personalities. History has shown often that the most gifted ones can sometimes be head cases off and onfield.

A person has no business being coach if he can't deal, handle and change these contrasting personalities to a degree. He is simply in the wrong vocation.

If a coach thinks the solution to dealing with these contrasting personalities is to trade them, you will have a team full of bland players and the player buy in will be neutral.

This stuff is rubbish.

The bloke has had numerous chances to sort himself out. Off the top of my head:

- Drink driving incident.
- Lied to club (see above).
- Betting issue.
- Skin folds.
- Arguing constantly with captain on field.
- On field meltdowns. Multiple times this year.

To argue it's just about personality is beyond ridiculous. The bloke has a history of showing little discipline. The current situation is a culmination of ongoing issues caused by Heath. He is not blameless and to claim that the current situation is because a coach/club can't deal with "contrasting personalities" is just plain wrong.

I like the bloke, but some posters on here seem to think the club should just cop his faults and not ask him to change at all.

 

[Kenno27]

Sorry but you're only assuming that Buckley can't handle contrasting personalities

The evidence, Harry having a bust up, Shaw, Dawes being so furious with Buckley last trade period that he demanded a trade and other examples are damning.

It is the skill of a coach to get the best out of contrasting personalities just as much as it is to be around the game tactically.

 

[vjknight]

Maybe we could get some of those players back down to the club after the weekend games so Swanny has someone to kick the football around with?

ben johnson to be employed as stable pony for dane swan.

 

[MagpieJoel]

The evidence, Harry having a bust up, Shaw, Dawes being so furious with Buckley last trade period that he demanded a trade and other examples are damning.

It is the skill of a coach to get the best out of contrasting personalities just as much as it is to be around the game tactically.

Harry. He is a special case. Not a great example. The bust up was over something that didn't even involve him.

Shaw. See my previous post.

Dawes. He was told he was going to be traded and he cracked it. So what?