An excellent suggestion given the ________s that drive a lot of them.
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Should 4WD purchases be taxed at a higher rate?
- Thread starter Steven Jones
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An excellent suggestion given the ________s that drive a lot of them.
I have a Berlina and have never even had a speeding fine. I have also had very few problems with drivers of them. In fact, I've had more dramas with drivers of Subarus or Hondas....actually....come to think of it....I've had far far more problems with bad drivers in general, regardless of what car they were in.
Can we please stop with all these silly generalisations that are built on bias and public perception
- Banned
- #203
4WDs are used unecessarily on suburban roads. So yes, the people who use them are negligent idiots. This particular driver was a negligent idiot regardless of the vehicle she was driving, but all users of 4WDs are negligent idiots, even if they abide by road laws.
It is highly possible that her view of a cyclist at ground level was impaired due to her being in a 4WD. So, I blame the vehicle she was driving. If she was much lower in a regular car, the chances of her seeing me would have been far greater.
Yeah... "lucky" I wasn't thrown on a bonnet of a small car and not under the front wheel of a monster truck
Or, perhaps having the front of a rampaging monster truck lodge into my body. "Lucky" I'm sick of people sticking up for 4WDs on city roads. There is no excuse to be driving one unless there is a dire need for work.
I make no bones about it - I'm heavily opinionated against 4WDs and harbour a deep hatred against them with good reason.
- Banned
- #204
Tax them off the road.
And dont limit things to 4WD's. Tax all cars of the road i say.
I have not owned a car for twenty years and i am doing fine.
And dont limit things to 4WD's. Tax all cars of the road i say.
I have not owned a car for twenty years and i am doing fine.
Well in years of driving on the freeway, where you see much of the worst driving, I'd say the idiot ratio goes like this:
New utes - by far the biggest offenders
V8s of assorted stripe (the newer, the more offensive)
Smaller 4WDs (ie the Territory types)
Boy racer mobiles (ie WRXes)
Large 4WDs (ie Landcruisers - mostly because they don't have power:weight that allows them to drive like the above)
Medium cars
Small cars
The stereotypical behaviour of the top two classes of car I see is the undertake - come up behind you doing 20kmh over the speed limit, try and intimidate you into getting out of their way, then dive into the lane to the left (causing a car in that lane to brake suddenly) pass you and then dive back into the lane you're in (causing you to brake suddenly).
- Banned
- #207
Hi-5!
I've had my DL for three years and haven't even driven or owned a motor vehicle in that time. Long live PT and human-powered vehicles.
Many people require vehicles for work and/or the public transport in their area is substandard. Not everyone can live along a train line or in high traffic areas.
PT isn't even particularly cheap
- Banned
- #209
I acknowledge that, but the majority of city dwellers can do without.
For sure. If it was convenient for me to get PT and I didn't need my car for work, I would.
Having said that, once you hit the weekend, not having a car would suck.
But you can get some ridiculous situations. When I was back at school, my school was a 10 minute drive away...too easy. But I had to catch 3 buses, 2 of which went in the opposite direction. This took about 90 minutes.
Which isn't a reflection on the driver?
So you find 4WD's one of the better "classes"?
On the freeway, yes - mostly because they can't be driven like maniacs (though some drivers still think they can). And "better" is definitely only a matter of degrees, while they're nowhere near as bad as the average new ute, there's a massive gap between them and your average medium or small car.
Off the freeway, large 4WDs quickly ascend the ladder. Even when they're just sitting there they make it hard for everyone else by creating blind spots (such as backing out of a parking bay when you're next to one). They tend to also have bigger blind spots, in that they seem much more oblivious to other road users (for instance, 4WDs seem to have trouble seeing small cars in the lane directly next to them).
Bascially, when a 4WD comes along, there doesn't seem to be any two way relationship between the drivers - the 4WD has absolute authority. I don't really blame the drivers for this (well, I blame them for owning a 4WD, but that's different), I've had to drive a monstrously oversized 4WD occasionally in the city recently, and I'm sure it's the same when I'm the driver. It's just that they're so out of place as commuter vehicles compared to what everyone else uses.
Ultimately, the difference between a 4WD and most of the other types of cars is that the problems 4WDs cause for everyone else on the road are because they're 4WDs - and thus not resolvable (though plenty of 4WD drivers exacerbate it by being shit drivers anyway). For other cars, as long as there's not a ________ behind the wheel, they're no more problem than any other car.
See, I have no problems with 4WDs on the roads whatsoever and I'm on the road all day for my work. I can understand your reasons but I feel they are rather petty and any decent driver should have no problems with whatsoever. After all, there will still be vans, trucks, buses to contend with if there were no 4WDs
- Banned
- #213
I think people are forgetting about the human cost of 4WD. They are statistically proven to be more likely to kill pedestrians and cyclists in the event of an accident.
They are also statistically proven to be more likely to be involved in a fatal car-car collisions (fatal for the driver of the other car that is).
Why do other non-4WD road users allow this to continue?
When scientists discovered that passive smoking could kill they decided to take action against smoking (i.e. taxing cigarette purchases, and banning smoking in certain venues).
The same principle should apply to 4WD's i.e. impose a tax on the purchase of a 4WD so that the price reflects to true to cost (including its externalities for society), and ban the use of 4WD in certain places (i.e. inner city roads, or cast a wider net and limit them to rural use only).
4WD's need to be treated in the same way as cigarettes. Likewise, 4WD owners need to be treated with the same contempt that you would treat a cigarette smoker that blew smoke in your face. The 4WD owner is killing you in the same way that a selfish smoker is killing the unsuspecting passive smoker.
They are also statistically proven to be more likely to be involved in a fatal car-car collisions (fatal for the driver of the other car that is).
Why do other non-4WD road users allow this to continue?
When scientists discovered that passive smoking could kill they decided to take action against smoking (i.e. taxing cigarette purchases, and banning smoking in certain venues).
The same principle should apply to 4WD's i.e. impose a tax on the purchase of a 4WD so that the price reflects to true to cost (including its externalities for society), and ban the use of 4WD in certain places (i.e. inner city roads, or cast a wider net and limit them to rural use only).
4WD's need to be treated in the same way as cigarettes. Likewise, 4WD owners need to be treated with the same contempt that you would treat a cigarette smoker that blew smoke in your face. The 4WD owner is killing you in the same way that a selfish smoker is killing the unsuspecting passive smoker.
Greenie + Docker supporter + City Beach + non-car owner + holier-than-thou superiority complex = W A N K E R ! ! !
You can claim all you want about 4WDs doing more damage compared to a normal car, but once 4WDs are gone, Commodores will do more damage then a Hyundai and Hyundais will do more damage then a motorcycle and a motorcycle will do more damage then a bicycle...
...maybe we should all just walk
...maybe we should all just walk
Traffic Light
Club Legend
What about the improved traction of 4WDs during wet weather? Less likely to cause a crash, while the RWD Commodores and Falcons become out of control death traps.
LOL at the people wanting to "tax them off the road"....how exactly do you hope to achieve this? It's easy to suggest an outlandish idea, but in reality it's utter stupidity and will never happen.
LOL at the people wanting to "tax them off the road"....how exactly do you hope to achieve this? It's easy to suggest an outlandish idea, but in reality it's utter stupidity and will never happen.
Traffic Light
Club Legend
The same applies for freighter trucks...should we ban them too?
Borry
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There's a difference between large vehicles that are used because of a valid business reason and large vehicles that mostly are not.
- Banned
- #221
Starting to blur the lines between privately registered vehichles and commercial ones.
My big issue is with privately registered big 4WD's owned by city people and being mainly driven on city roads.
I have no issue with commercial ones or people in the bush owning them.
- Banned
- #222
Those figure's may suggest in Sydney 4WD's are doing more costly damage to other cars than themselves in collisions.
Comedy gold, now this is the delusional stuff we've come to expect from the greenie brigade. Bob Brown for PM? Imagine how rooted Australia would be?
JW Frogen
Premiership Player
The “seat” of Bennelong voted against their sitting PM, John Howard.
Post polling showed one of the main reasons was his refusal to sign the Kyoto Treaty.
Yet Bennelong has one of the highest rates of 4 Wheel Drive ownership in Australia.
So they are creating the “perceived” problem, but blamed the PM for not giving them a fake treaty that would have gave them a way to feel they did something about the problem.
I drive a ____ing Getz. And I voted for Howard.
Tax ____ing away 4 wheels, or not, I could care less.
There are real issues in the world, even if Tim Flannery or Al Gore do not know it.
Post polling showed one of the main reasons was his refusal to sign the Kyoto Treaty.
Yet Bennelong has one of the highest rates of 4 Wheel Drive ownership in Australia.
So they are creating the “perceived” problem, but blamed the PM for not giving them a fake treaty that would have gave them a way to feel they did something about the problem.
I drive a ____ing Getz. And I voted for Howard.
Tax ____ing away 4 wheels, or not, I could care less.
There are real issues in the world, even if Tim Flannery or Al Gore do not know it.
Falchoon
Brownlow Medallist
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I am assuming you're not referring to braking distance or the ability to steer around an object?
In fact given an inability to do the above less traction off the line might even be safer.
http://www.nrma.com.au/keeping-safe-secure/car-safety/car-stopping-distance-tests.shtml
Interesting that the landcruiser is in front in the dry but not the wet
I think Will Anderson said it best in todays Sunday Life in the Daily Telegraph and Age/HS. Paraphrasing..
"I'm not a good driver and hate 4wd's, however because I'm not a good driver if I'm in an accident I'd prefer to come off better than the other bloke"
That is the mentality you're dealing with
oversteer > understeer every day of the week.
