NO TROLLS Should AFL players bend the knee before each match in 2021?

[Elmer_Hauser]

Aussies are obsessed with anything trending in the USA for some reason.

It's not just in the USA FWIW

Many Premier League and English Football clubs do take a knee as well before games (even when no national anthem is played)

 

[Power Raid]

There should be no celebration of war but ANZAC Day doesn't celebrate it. It's a day of reflection, sombreness and we simply say thank you to those who fought for our country, our freedom and ourselves. We should use the day to recognise the fact that war is futile and has to be avoided.

How do you interpret ANZAC Day any other way?

like invading the ottoman empire when our freedom and nation was not at risk
like invading vietnam when our freedom and nation was not at risk
like invading korea when our freedom and nation was not at risk
like invading iraq when our freedom and nation was not at risk
like invading south africa when our freedom and nation was not at risk
like invading china (boxer rebellion) when our freedom and nation was not at risk

I'm not saying these wars were wrong or right, rather they WERE NOT what you presented. War and killing is just a job and should receive no more respect than mercenaries or any other job for money.


It also highlights ANZAC day is not one of remembrance, reflection or somberness. Rather it is a day of recreating history and nationalism.

 

[Back One Out]

It all depends on why the person is taking a knee.


Good:







Bad:

Posturing for votes?

It seemed like a noble gesture from AFL clubs last year. But why is the whole world taking it's cues from the American mainstream media? It would've been perfectly understandable if it was a local story which prompted the anti-racism action. Just seemed weird to me that we became embroiled in America's shame over police brutality.

I think people should be free to express how they feel and if that means taking a knee or doing a war dance or giving an "up yours" gesture to the opposition cheer squad, then good on them. Live and let live!

But I reckon individual players had no choice in this. Can you imagine the criticism if one of the players abstained for whatever reason?
Fair enough, they are all representing the club. It's not really about them as individuals. It's a team directive.

I just think it's a little unfair for the AFL or the clubs or the AFLPA to use players as pawns for whatever social issue they deem is worthy of virtue-signalling.

Sure, have an anti-racism action of some sort - a pre-game public anouncement, or a match trophy named the "Say No To Racism" Cup, or get the captains to exchange ceremonial boomerangs before the coin toss and auction them off for an indigenous charity.

Or paint the ground with a "Stop racism" slogan instead of advertisements for Coles and Toyota (see pic) ^^^

But maybe it isn't so cool to compel people through peer pressure into take a knee. It takes away from the sincerity of the action.

 

[Chief]

It seems like there is a trend to claim “it’s just an American thing” without looking at the local context.

It became a powerful symbol via media and the internet, but just showing people something doesn’t make it a symbol.

It has resonated with many, many people because poor treatment of minorities is not just a US thing.

 

[Topkent]

Yep. The same people against this would have been the people saying black people should not be playing in the VFL if they were around in the 60's or 70's.

Hahaha the racism you argue against is about sweeping statements, assumptions and pre conceived ideas based on people. Exactly what you've done here.

What an embarassing way to conduct yourself.

 

[Chief]

Hahaha the racism you argue against is about sweeping statements, assumptions and pre conceived ideas based on people. Exactly what you've done here.

What an embarassing way to conduct yourself.

No tolerance for intolerance.

Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[radiojake]

I don't care if anyone does or doesn't - but anyone who says 'keep politics out of sport' but who stands for the national anthem when finals come around is either a hypocrite or too stupid to realise what they are doing

 

[DarwinRoo]

Justine Damond

Guess who is going to prison for 12 years? The cop who shot her.

 

[Guido]

No tolerance for intolerance.

Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

From the above reference, I'm going to assume that you're in favour of some type of restriction of free speech/hate speech laws. Apologies if I've misread.

"Who decides what we should be tolerant/intolerant of" is the key question.

What happens, when say, a hard right wing government deems the BLM movement as intolerant and dangerous, and bans it because it sees many of their outlooks as hate speech that may lead to violence? Who do the BLM protesters complain to, when the laws that allowed that to happen is what many of them themselves, advocated for?

You might argue that we "only" ban the worst of the worst aspects of speech. OK, something like holocaust deniers? Sure, 99.9% of us would agree that they're absurd. But then in a country like Turkey, you've got a massive chunk of the population who think the Armenian Genocide happened and a massive chunk who don't. Do you muzzle half the population? I find genocide-deniers abhorrent, but what's the answer? Ban their thoughts? Jail them for speaking what they think is a truth? OK, and when the government switches to representatives of the other half of the population, they change the laws, and the opposite opinion gets you in jail? People in Turkey have been convicted for publishing books saying the Armenian genocide happened.

Best policy - keep the government out of what which opinions and thoughts are right and wrong. Many would argue that fascism is allowed to rise gain traction because of a *lack* of free speech, not because there's too much of it.

 

[Leon]

I love how the right wing constantly whines about free speech and labelling people snow flakes, yet also constantly squeal about things like this.

 

[Colonial]

There is free speech in Australia, there is not however freedom of consequence.

 

[Guido]

I love how the right wing constantly whines about free speech and labelling people snow flakes, yet also constantly squeal about things like this.

They definitely are whining about it, but - and I may be totally wrong on this - but I don't think many right wingers in this thread have said players should be banned for, or from, taking a knee. They're more arguing whether it's the appropriate forum and whether we want politics to mix with sport.

Right wingers may start doing their own stuff on the sporting field - in support of "Blue Lives Matter", or maybe statements re: maintaining strong borders, or anti-Covid19 lockdown stances, or being anti-Green policies of the day. If statements have a green light, then as a code the door is open to many other political positions being displayed on the footy field too.

Politics is about rank 42 in terms of meaning/importance in my life, but for others, they invest a massive amount of their emotional capital into it - you'll get to a point where many fans are going to the footy with a part of them *hating* some of their our own players because of outspoken political opinions. IMO it's not a path we want to go down.

 

[Power Raid]

If we all did something, towards helping reduce inequality we would be a much better place.

My question to anyone who takes the knee or wants equality, is "what have you done"? It is easy to take a knee and point the responsibility at others.

The only time taking the knee is appropriate is
1) One has taken proactive steps themselves; AND
2) The government has done a wrong

Otherwise it is virtue signalling

FTR we should all work hard to deliver equality. Society and our own lives are better for it.

 

[Engimal v3]

All for it, just don't cry "ism" if somebody disagrees with you, or believes that there is more to a story than out and out discrimination

This is one of those things that people complain about way more than it happens. Sort of like how you hear the "how do you know if someone is vegan? They'll tell you" joke 10x more often than you'll actually meet an obnoxious vegan.

I'm yet to see anyone be labelled a racist or sexist for disagreeing (without something explicitly racist/sexist being posted), and yet the usual suspects here on BigFooty would make you think the "loony left" has pumped mustard gas into the air vents for disagreeing.

 

[SumTingWong]

It’s a modern day Holocaust, and nobody gives a sh*t.

Because there's no evidence for it.

 

[gingernuts]

It is the "professional" protesters that annoy me. You know the ones that are at every single protest that happens in the state

 

[SumTingWong]

It seems like there is a trend to claim “it’s just an American thing” without looking at the local context.

It became a powerful symbol via media and the internet, but just showing people something doesn’t make it a symbol.

It has resonated with many, many people because poor treatment of minorities is not just a US thing.

I guess it's safe to say that you have the same feelings about the surge in crimes against Asian Americans by African Americans?

 

[SumTingWong]

I love how the right wing constantly whines about free speech and labelling people snow flakes, yet also constantly squeal about things like this.

The right wing doesn't say you can't do it and attempt to cancel you. They argue that you shouldn't. Maybe get a clue before you post.

 

[SumTingWong]

Take a look at the whole MLB clown show atm to convince you sport should not be a vehicle for social justice/political agendas. Cancelling an all star game in a city because the state it is in dared make it law that you have to show ID to prove who you are at a polling booth when you vote for the president of your country. This is after the Democrats told us for the last 5 years that US election integrity has been violated because they lost and 1 day after they won told us election integrity had now been amazingly restored.

 

[Milanista28]

Aboriginal children were abused at much higher rates when children were forcibly removed from communities and placed in institutions.

Is this still a problem in 2021?

 

[SumTingWong]

It’s a modern day Holocaust, and nobody gives a sh*t.

Uyghur population is outgrowing that of Han because minority groups in China were not part of the one child policy. They can enter university with lower scores than Han Chinese. Uyghur script is on all Chinese currency. That is one horrid Holocaust.Lol

 

[TheDarkDwarf]

Aboriginal people are overrepresented in crime statistics. That’s why they have a higher prison rate than white Australians.

How many of those deaths in custody are due to natural causes, suicide, illness etc rather than some police officer or prison guard bashing them to death?

The majority. Between 1991-1992 to 2015-2016 58% were from natural causes, and 32% as a result of suicide.

 

[bjwilliams]

I'm interested how the commenters in here are saying this is a political statement and to keep it out of sport?

In a statement given to the ABC, Kearney said she took the knee "for our First Nations people and to show support to all women in Australia".

This doesn't sound political at all to me, more just showing further support for certain people. Why wouldn't you want people to feel represented, or uplifted, or acknowledged? Sounds more like you don't want possible societal issues that affect these people to be bought to your attention.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Similar problems in Australia as Aboriginal people are imprisoned and killed in custody per capita far more than white people. It is just a more hidden problem because there are fewer Aboriginal people in Australia as a percentage than black people in America.

They're killed in custody or they die in custody?

 

[Teen Wolf]

What a sheltered, simple little world some of you must live in. According to this thread: Anti-racism = left-winger; pro-cops = right-winger.

North Melbourne's AFLW team, like most, is made up of multiple police officers btw. And one of the Aboriginal players has family on the force.