Should Dan Richardson be sacked immediately?

[El Tigre]

Why do we need Dan or Blair if we have Balme? Balme's big toes could do more than those two put together.

Because you need people to follow thru with the legwork? But the direction needs to be set by someone. Tbh, Dan may very well develop into a good head of FD. But he was clearly out of his depth with the role before Balmey come along.

Anyway if Balmey is so great, why dont we get him running the messages out?

 

[Al Kemy]

Balme pretty well backed up the lids argument that rfctiger74 has been pushing. Lids saved our arses and thank God GWS came along bc we may have handed him over to Geelong and still be paying for part of his wages. I'm glad we got it done and kudos to Balme and the boys. Now we need Geelong to finish last next year.

Lids saved our arses by default. Lids made all the choices here. We cant make him go anywhere! He chose the cats first, thanks buddy the team with no cash or picks, then came the dogs, then GWS last minute. How the hell do you plan for that. So after having a plan Geelong pull out and we steal Caddy.
He now says GWS and we get a 1st and 3rd not a bad result. If Deledio had chosen GWS at the start, imagine the choices we would of had?

 

[Livonski]

Lids saved our arses by default. Lids made all the choices here. We cant make him go anywhere! He chose the cats first, thanks buddy the team with no cash or picks, then came the dogs, then GWS last minute. How the hell do you plan for that. So after having a plan Geelong pull out and we steal Caddy.
He now says GWS and we get a 1st and 3rd not a bad result. If Deledio had chosen GWS at the start, imagine the choices we would of had?

Well put.
Deledio didn't negotiate the terms, our poorly regarded football department did.
Lids just ducked and dived between suitors.
Kudos to the FD.

 

[DrMike]

Just on caddy, both wells and caddy summed up the key issue. Caddy had been promised good midfield minutes when he moved to geelong. The addition of danger killed this though. Caddy thought him being shopped was a sign he wasnt just behind danger and selwood, but the other kids geelong refused our inquires of. Wells still thought geelong would live up to its promise, so he was disappointed. Personally i dont see how that would happen, with danger and selwood being two of the best mids in the country, its not like trying to push out mitch farmer

We asked for Caddy. You don't ask for someone without reason. It's called "planning".

 

[Sassafras]

We asked for Caddy. You don't ask for someone without reason. It's called "planning".

They could have just picked his name out of a hat.

 

[DrMike]

They could have just picked his name out of a hat.

Could have. Everything screams otherwise.

 

[Rumballs]

They could have just picked his name out of a hat.

Maybe one of Lid's beanies

 

[Ned_Flanders]

We asked for Caddy. You don't ask for someone without reason. It's called "planning".

if we "planned" it, why hadn't he spoken to us before we went overseas? why did he just buy a house in Geelong? why did he have zero thought of even leaving Geelong?

planning means preparing for something BEFORE it happens. he didn't even speak to Caddy before Lids nominated Geelong, and even then we nominated other players first

 

[brett_warne]

I am wrapped. I have spent the last 12 months totally #eco. I don't care how it happened, we have had our first good trade period in a long time. I think balmey has had an increadible influence in a very short time. Like all businesses, you need good people, when you have them you get better. Benny and balmey are good people.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

if we "planned" it, why hadn't he spoken to us before we went overseas? why did he just buy a house in Geelong? why did he have zero thought of even leaving Geelong?

planning means preparing for something BEFORE it happens. he didn't even speak to Caddy before Lids nominated Geelong, and even then we nominated other players first

You make a good specific point about planning, which most interpret too generally.

I guess you could say our planning back in March - August may have been nothing to celebrate.

- Caddy was opportunistic, it's the execution that should be applauded, not the planning. (Although, we did plan to shake out a 23-25yo inside mid from somewhere, we didn't just plan specifically for Caddy months in advance. Without luck, we'd end up with nobody and our plan to "bring in another inside mid" would have failed).

- Nankervis... I don't know, I read his name on PRE months ago.

- Deledio... not initiated by us. I think we did have the power to make this one go either way. That required an element of our own decision making, and our strategy was perfect. Also, it's possible Brett's decision to leave was a result of deliberate pressure. That's how all major organisations "move on" their top employees... pressure them into quitting. The fallout from the leading teams fiasco and the review leave a strong element of chance that Richmond planned to trade out Brett Deledio due to leadership, culture, age, and/or injury reasons - plus the fact his contract was backloaded. Hawthorn backloaded Mitchell and Lewis' contract I believe, and moved them on cheap. Perhaps Richmond planned all along to underpay an elite talent for 80% of his contract, then move him on. However, we ended up covering some of his salary (probably equal to the average of the 5-year deal if not skewed), so that element of such a potential plan failed. But that's pure guess-work on my part.

- Prestia was fully planned and we paid full price.

What we did well this trade period was play it smart in October. Coincidence perhaps, but since Balme joined everything we've done has been very good.

Meh, who cares. Let's all just agree that once the trade period hit, we played the cards we were dealt very well.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You seem to have a point about planning.

I guess you could say our planning back in March - August was nothing to celebrate (although Prestia for 6 is arguably a good piece of planning, time will tell).

What we did well this trade period was play it smart in October. Coincidence perhaps, but since Balme joined everything we've done has been very good.

It's true we didn't plan for Caddy months in advance.
Nankervis... I don't know, did we plan this one months ago? I read his name on PRE months ago.
Deledio... we knew how he was feeling and we could have kept him if we really wanted to talk him into staying I'm sure.
Prestia fully planned.

Meh, who cares. Let's all just agree that once the trade period hit, we played the cards we were dealt very well.

Just on lids, people were posting recently that the relationship was done. He was either goong this year or next, and we woukd have received much less next year than this

 

[Tiger Claw]

Just on lids, people were posting recently that the relationship was done. He was either goong this year or next, and we woukd have received much less next year than this

What is your point?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What is your point?

We had to move him on this year. Keeping him wasnt a good option. Gws saved our arse

 

[Tiger Claw]

We had to move him on this year. Keeping him wasnt a good option. Gws saved our arse

Wasn't GWS always in the frame? The guy who posted On the coach episodes that I normally get to see has been rubbed out so can't go back and watch but wasn't there talk a while ago on the show with Dimma? Do know after the show Lid's went on air about not moving to Sydney. Talk about or with GWS has been going on for a while IMO. Not some last ditch effort saving our arse scenario. Went down the whole get the player to Geelong route but I think GWS was always the preferred option for the club.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Wasn't GWS always in the frame? The guy who posted On the coach episodes that I normally get to see has been rubbed out so can't go back and watch but wasn't there talk a while ago on the show with Dimma? Do know after the show Lid's went on air about not moving to Sydney. Talk about or with GWS has been going on for a while IMO. Not some last ditch effort saving our arse scenario. Went down the whole get the player to Geelong route but I think GWS was always the preferred option for the club.

Of course it was our prefered option, but lids killed it with his "im not leaving vic" declaration

Until lids backed down from that, gws wasnt happening

Now given dogs offered him a nassive paycut, and gws gave him $1.5m for three,i suspect the gws $1.5m was a key influencer in changing his mind.

 

[TigerImposter]

Lids saved our arses by default. Lids made all the choices here. We cant make him go anywhere! He chose the cats first, thanks buddy the team with no cash or picks, then came the dogs, then GWS last minute. How the hell do you plan for that. So after having a plan Geelong pull out and we steal Caddy.
He now says GWS and we get a 1st and 3rd not a bad result. If Deledio had chosen GWS at the start, imagine the choices we would of had?

Lids saved our arses by default. Lids made all the choices here. We cant make him go anywhere! He chose the cats first, thanks buddy the team with no cash or picks, then came the dogs, then GWS last minute. How the hell do you plan for that. So after having a plan Geelong pull out and we steal Caddy.
He now says GWS and we get a 1st and 3rd not a bad result. If Deledio had chosen GWS at the start, imagine the choices we would of had?

lids doesn't go and we are xxxxed.All the rest is history

 

[Tiger Claw]

Of course it was our prefered option, but lids killed it with his "im not leaving vic" declaration

Until lids backed down from that, gws wasnt happening

Now given dogs offered him a nassive paycut, and gws gave him $1.5m for three,i suspect the gws $1.5m was a key influencer in changing his mind.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Dogs deal but at 1.5m over 3 years from GWS he's taken a pay cut anyway. Not sure how GWS saved our arse in the terms you put it originally. If anything you're right in that Lids had to agree to the trade. His declaration of 'I'm not leaving vic' seems a bit hollow considering.

 

[DrMike]

if we "planned" it, why hadn't he spoken to us before we went overseas? why did he just buy a house in Geelong? why did he have zero thought of even leaving Geelong?

planning means preparing for something BEFORE it happens. he didn't even speak to Caddy before Lids nominated Geelong, and even then we nominated other players first

Maybe we had.
Maybe he spent months searching and found it but wanted an investment property or somewhere to live in case things fell through.
Maybe he did. If you dig a bit there are numerous people saying he wasn't happy. Lennon "planned" to leave Richmond, still here.

Planning means preparing yourself to be able to deal with something IF it happens. It means preparing yourself for multiple scenarios. It doesn't mean locking players away mid year. Us not talking to him is speculation on your part and again I'll point to the fact there are numerous people suggesting otherwise if you dig. All media comments have been said to ensure there's no bad blood between supporters and clubs, read between the lines.

 

[Rumballs]

Maybe we had.
Maybe he spent months searching and found it but wanted an investment property or somewhere to live in case things fell through.
Maybe he did. If you dig a bit there are numerous people saying he wasn't happy. Lennon "planned" to leave Richmond, still here.

Planning means preparing yourself to be able to deal with something IF it happens. It means preparing yourself for multiple scenarios. It doesn't mean locking players away mid year. Us not talking to him is speculation on your part and again I'll point to the fact there are numerous people suggesting otherwise if you dig. All media comments have been said to ensure there's no bad blood between supporters and clubs, read between the lines.

Agree. And I'd add that like any strategy it's a balance of planning and agility. It seems we used a bit of both.

 

[ImTradeBait]

We have no idea what really went on. Doesn't matter what clubs or individuals say, its all just ducks and drakes. Unless you're actually involved in the process (which none of us are) we really don't know and can only go off results.

Awesome response... Too many things people don't know and guess while getting their vent post out. Painting a picture that is not true or twisted or too limited. Too many unknown variables...


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[theflea]

Dont disagree, but people are lauding our guys off them, when the one trade we spent twelve months preparing for we got butt stuffed on

Im all for taking advantage of opportunities as they arise, but this xannot be what we rely on for success at the trade table. If so, we can effectively abandon any plans to land major players moving forward (these rarely happen on the fly anymore)

Its all well and good to figure out what we would like to pay, but like all wars, it only survives first contact with the enemy. The fact that we finished lower, were hoping we could convince them of a better deal, it just the way it went. I also like the idea we didn't just give up, and throw in the towel, and I don't think we got buggered doing it. Was it our preference? No, but you deal with the hand dealt. I get you disagree, but that's my thoughts on it.

 

[theflea]

Your last sentence sums it up. I havent said we had a shit trade period. I said we our planning for trade period and execution of those plans was shit. Good luck and random chance actually delivered us a good outcome

You say we were supported lids efforts to move, but far too late. He was shopping himself in july, and we had no idea. If he hadnt changed his mind about sydney, hed still be with us in 2017, and leaving for a second or third round pick as a fa

If we properly planned for this, (1) we would have known his intentions, and (2) started talks with geelong and other suiters back then.

In caddy, we never spoke to him in the lead up to trade week at all. He had just bought a home in geelong, and was clearly a bloke not considering his options. What changed his mind was his realisation of where he stood in the cats pecking order after they put him up ahead of the others we asked for.

If we want to be a successful club, we cannot rely on chance and random luck to deliver us the results we want. As the saying goes, you have to make your own luck, and you do this with proper planning and execution, not hope

I don't know how anybody can our planning sucks, when you can even say what it was. It is pure supposition here.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I don't know the ins and outs of the Dogs deal but at 1.5m over 3 years from GWS he's taken a pay cut anyway. Not sure how GWS saved our arse in the terms you put it originally. If anything you're right in that Lids had to agree to the trade. His declaration of 'I'm not leaving vic' seems a bit hollow considering.

Dogs was in the $300k's, they have no cap to spare.

He was onky getting good coin off us for one more year thanks to whats reported to be a heavily back ended deal (off mem his current obe averaged $600-650k pa). As such its not such a big drop, but more importantly it was more than other contenders would be able to pay. Hawks at the limit, same wjth swans, same with dogs.

Gws offering decent coin for a decent length deal was enough for him to ignore his missus and move north imo, and thats why we should be grateful, because otherwise wed lose him next year for or 2nd at best.

 

[theflea]

They could have just picked his name out of a hat.

Balme stated that the clubs do so much planning that most is never used. You go thru each team, think of what we need, if that team would let them go, and what it would cost. Then consider the medical side of things, which is why these things take time, and it appears club waste time.

 

[Sassafras]

Balme stated that the clubs do so much planning that most is never used. You go thru each team, think of what we need, if that team would let them go, and what it would cost. Then consider the medical side of things, which is why these things take time, and it appears club waste time.

Agree, it was a joke to DrMike