Should Sydney and GWS be allowed academies in strong footballing communities?

[RUNVS]

so can geelong and our sponsors go and setup and academy in a strong regional footballing area and get it ticked off by the AFL?? We can also help grow the game in NSW, we will pick a border town and focus on development. Everyone should have access to the same benefits. No club should have their own set of rules and interests that are above everyone else in an attempt to ensure they never drop down the ladder.

and yes, if it is a priority the AFL will do it better, as they have greater resources at their disposal to do the job.

Geelong don't need an academy as you have a huge amount of Geelong Falcons players wanting to come back to Geelong almost every year.

 

[Lach72]

Fremantle??? They are generally very good at player retentiob

Ummm...

 

[Lach72]

I object to having different rules for academies in different states or for FS.

Nick Daicos: pick him where ever you want.
Sydney/GWS/Brisbane/GC pick your academy players where ever you want


Jesse Motlop in Freo's academy. Not before 40. Mitch Edwards this year, in Freo's academy? Not before 40

I wonder whether we go as hard at Jackson if Edwards was available to us

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Geelong don't need an academy as you have a huge amount of Geelong Falcons players wanting to come back to Geelong almost every year.

I think your missing the point. there should be no rules that are just to benefit a select few clubs. Everything should be fair game and the same rules for all. After this point, it comes down to quality of management and clubs outperforming one another.

giving Sydney GWS an exclusive academy to pick from that nobody else can access is not a level playing field.

If one club has access to something, all should have access to it, and let the best run organisations come out ontop.

If you want to grow the game in sydney and keep the academies, then let all AFL clubs have a piece of it and similar access.

Sydney and GWS are not above the game with special benefits.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I object to having different rules for academies in different states or for FS.

Nick Daicos: pick him where ever you want.
Sydney/GWS/Brisbane/GC pick your academy players where ever you want


Jesse Motlop in Freo's academy. Not before 40. Mitch Edwards this year, in Freo's academy? Not before 40

I wonder whether we go as hard at Jackson if Edwards was available to us

what is apparently bias about F/S rules? each and every club will have their turn at it over the years. It is the only romance and sentiment in the game.. the abletts playing for geelong... the daicos boys at collingwood... it gives alot of meaning to our game.

would you love to see the next generation of Pavlich running around for fremantle or geelong?? without F/S rule the system becomes very mechanical and cold, there is no heart or heritage left.

 

[mcs095]

So you’re saying you have a bigger disadvantage in finals when you’re guaranteed every home final at the SCG in comparison to a club like geelong who gets 0 home finals at its home ground?? Who do you think is more disadvantaged most of the time

Sydney geelong WB st kilda
Sydney 100% of the time plays collingwood at SCG.
Geelong WB st kilda are forced to play collingwood at the MCG.

Who do you think has the bigger advantage?? You have a much easier pathway to the GF than a lot of other clubs do.

Outside of the cap is just trite.

I will use geelong as an example, we get 8-9 home games a year, the least of any side in the AFL. If Sydney or any other interstate side is strong that year, you only need to beat a couple of weak Vic sides away and you’re almost guaranteed a top 4 spot. Where as Vic sides have to play on even terms almost every week against each other and then a disadvantage against interstate sides away.

When you look at who has the advantage, Sydney has it 50% of the time, Melbourne clubs only have it playing an interstate side in Vic which is less than 50% of games.

What max exodus has Sydney experienced or Brisbane recently??? Or WCE or Fremantle??? They are generally very good at player retentiob

You do realise the swans-collingwood game in Sydney more often than not was usually due to agreement between clubs and the AFL - not some 'help Sydney' clause. Especially when for goodness knows how long the Swans had to trudge out to that Homebush shithole to get our routine beating from the Pies lol.

Very simply put this should be run by the AFL not the teams. If it is a real priority and point of interest, then they will run it properly and efficiently.

Shows a typical clueless view.

The whole reason the academies exist is the AFL proved itself disinterested at best, or arguably purely incompetent at actually developing talent in northern states. Take a look at how many in NSW (outside of the Riverina area) were drafted for an extended period in the 90s and 00s. Somewhere between stuff all and jack with a few notable exceptions. Coming from an area of the country with a significant proportion of the population.

only thing i think should be kept is the F/S system. It gives nobody an advantage, and is simply the only romance left in footy. you Need some sentiment left in the game.

So how many father son picks do new clubs have off the bat then?

Laughable if you can't see how it advantages some over others.

Desperate for a 'rules for all' for some aspects, but then keep other elements for the 'romance of it'. Get a grip.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Oh look, we’ve won two on the trot and another academy thread appears.

the more discussion the more likely the AFL does the right thing and takes over the management of it and removes the special benefits to NSW teams.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

the more discussion the more likely the AFL does the right thing and takes over the management of it and removes the special benefits to NSW teams.

I suspect someone in the AFL social media unit is aware that this is the umpteenth BF thread on this topic.

 

[Colonial]

Sydney can get father/son picks so not sure what your reply is about, the other bit has been addressed many times before

My reply was to someone who supposedly wants an equal comp. Asked a question to confirm if he was genuine. I doubt it.

 

[mcs095]

so can geelong and our sponsors go and setup and academy in a strong regional footballing area and get it ticked off by the AFL?? We can also help grow the game in NSW, we will pick a border town and focus on development. Everyone should have access to the same benefits. No club should have their own set of rules and interests that are above everyone else in an attempt to ensure they never drop down the ladder.

and yes, if it is a priority the AFL will do it better, as they have greater resources at their disposal to do the job.

Go and read some history about the academies if you think the 'AFL will do it better'.They literally exist because the AFL proved themselves utterly incompetent at player development outside of the traditional footy areas where they can sit back, have a ciggy and a beer and watch the players pump off the production line.

And if you think Sydney is a 'strong regional footballing area' in terms of junior footy, then you either need to stop drinking the kool aid, or start drinking it.

The swans (and GWS in their parts of the city - and the two QLD teams up North)) have pumped tens of millions into building a pathway that actually creates a viable way for more than a handful (i.e. those with AFL links or the ability to send kids interstate) of kids to live the AFL dream. And yet for all that - most of GWS academy success has been players from the Riverina (i.e. a strong footy region where they had access to players initially they probably shouldn't have), and the Swans are running at a decent player about once every two years on average over the life of the academy (noting they are seeing better results recently - happy to grant that). With the two highest profile players both being ones that, in their own words, have said they wouldn't be playing AFL without the academy pathway.

You truly seem to think they just are using them to hoover up enormous amounts of talent and that's all they do. Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Colonial]

the more discussion the more likely the AFL does the right thing and takes over the management of it and removes the special benefits to NSW teams.

Entitled vics.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You do realise the swans-collingwood game in Sydney more often than not was usually due to agreement between clubs and the AFL - not some 'help Sydney' clause. Especially when for goodness knows how long the Swans had to trudge out to that Homebush shithole to get our routine beating from the Pies lol.



Shows a typical clueless view.

The whole reason the academies exist is the AFL proved itself disinterested at best, or arguably purely incompetent at actually developing talent in northern states. Take a look at how many in NSW (outside of the Riverina area) were drafted for an extended period in the 90s and 00s. Somewhere between stuff all and jack with a few notable exceptions. Coming from an area of the country with a significant proportion of the population.


So how many father son picks do new clubs have off the bat then?

Laughable if you can't see how it advantages some over others.

Desperate for a 'rules for all' for some aspects, but then keep other elements for the 'romance of it'. Get a grip.

talk about dillusional, can you please show me how all victorian clubs have apparently benefited from the F/S rule to this exxagerated level your claiming?? most clubs have a couple the last 30 years with the exception of the WB and recently collingwood, then most of the ones draftef over the decades are not much good. Geelong despite all the outcry have only drafted of any talent hawkins scarlett and G ablett so only 3 in about 30 years... hardly anything compared to having almost a top 10 pick every 1-3 years courtesy of the Academy influx.

LOL Sydney comes to an agreement with collingwood and the AFL for fixtured games in sydney?? you must have a nice tin foil hat on over there.

 

[Colonial]

Sydney and GWS are not above the game with special benefits.

Yeah only Vics are

 

[mcs095]

talk about dillusional, can you please show me how all victorian clubs have apparently benefited from the F/S rule to this exxagerated level your claiming?? most clubs have a couple the last 30 years with the exception of the WB and recently collingwood, then most of the ones draftef over the decades are not much good. Geelong despite all the outcry have only drafted of any talent hawkins scarlett and G ablett so only 3 in about 30 years... hardly anything compared to having almost a top 10 pick every 1-3 years courtesy of the Academy influx.

LOL Sydney comes to an agreement with collingwood and the AFL for fixtured games in sydney?? you must have a nice tin foil hat on over there.

How about you answer my question re: F/S? I said nothing about anyone benefitting from it more than others (I made zero claims if you had actually READ my post - I know you might find that difficult), just demonstrated how it is clearly not fair to some clubs compared to others by its very nature.

And yes - there was an agreement in place re: Swans/Pies games in Sydney during the Olympic Stadium era in particular. There is zero tin foil hat about it - they didn't play 8 or 9 years in a row off the back of 'the swans said they wanted that'. You are delusional if you think that was the case - it made commercial sense across the three parties to do that, and that's what they chose to do in seasons where they only met once (which did seem to happen a lot during that period for whatever reason).

 

[Saab NLAW]

My reply was to someone who supposedly wants an equal comp. Asked a question to confirm if he was genuine. I doubt it.

My own personal belief is that GWS should absolutely get an academy, no doubt about it. It genuinely benefits the game as a whole to use GWS and an academy as the vehicle to grow it in NSW.

Sydney getting an academy though is an absolute rort, how anyone can argue it with a straight face is laughable

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Go and read some history about the academies if you think the 'AFL will do it better'.They literally exist because the AFL proved themselves utterly incompetent at player development outside of the traditional footy areas where they can sit back, have a ciggy and a beer and watch the players pump off the production line.

And if you think Sydney is a 'strong regional footballing area' in terms of junior footy, then you either need to stop drinking the kool aid, or start drinking it.

The swans (and GWS in their parts of the city - and the two QLD teams up North)) have pumped tens of millions into building a pathway that actually creates a viable way for more than a handful (i.e. those with AFL links or the ability to send kids interstate) of kids to live the AFL dream. And yet for all that - most of GWS academy success has been players from the Riverina (i.e. a strong footy region where they had access to players initially they probably shouldn't have), and the Swans are running at a decent player about once every two years on average over the life of the academy (noting they are seeing better results recently - happy to grant that). With the two highest profile players both being ones that, in their own words, have said they wouldn't be playing AFL without the academy pathway.

You truly seem to think they just are using them to hoover up enormous amounts of talent and that's all they do. Couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't discredit sydney and GWS put effort and work in up there, what i have an issue with is that we have several teams that get exclusive access to obvious lucrative talent pools nobody else gets. If we are serious about equality, then let Geelong and all other teams help grow the game in sydney and start their own academies to further build the game in NSW. if it is about true growth and development this can only become a beneficial thing for NSW and the AFL wider community, why should two clubs only reap the benefits?? that is selfish and not in the interest of the games development.

either let all clubs dive into the NSW market and help grow the game and get even more athletes involved, or simply hand it back to the AFL to continue it.

 

[Colonial]

I couldn’t care where the grand final is played, my team gets a total of 0 home games in finals period let alone the grand final, so you’re preaching to the wrong choir on that one. Moving the grand final would benefit geelong nicely over the other vic clubs.

F/S?? You surely can’t be that dumb to think past players having a child is an advantage to one club over another as opposed to an entirely luck based. And last I checked all clubs have F/S access.

Your team does get home finals, you play home MCG games during the year, it is one of your home grounds.
Dumb enough? Name calling now? Tsk tsk.

It is an advantage too some clubs, especially those with decades more
History in the comp. Certainly helped you guys out with players in the last decade. Besides it, *grabs pearls, compromises the draft! (Mock outrage).

 

[geelong_crazy26]

How about you answer my question re: F/S? I said nothing about anyone benefitting from it more than others (I made zero claims if you had actually READ my post - I know you might find that difficult), just demonstrated how it is clearly not fair to some clubs compared to others by its very nature.

And yes - there was an agreement in place re: Swans/Pies games in Sydney during the Olympic Stadium era in particular. There is zero tin foil hat about it - they didn't play 8 or 9 years in a row off the back of 'the swans said they wanted that'. You are delusional if you think that was the case - it made commercial sense across the three parties to do that, and that's what they chose to do in seasons where they only met once (which did seem to happen a lot during that period for whatever reason).

it is fair because the ratio of males getting females pregnant amongst AFL players i would say is not very discriminating to anyone mate, it doesnt take a genius to work this out. Even if you have 0 F/S for 50 years and another club gets 10, it is still an entirely even system in place. You are talking about equality of outcomes, not equality.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Your team does get home finals, you play home MCG games during the year, it is one of your home grounds.

because the AFL tells us to play there lol. We want all games at GMHBA

 

[mcs095]

My own personal belief is that GWS should absolutely get an academy, no doubt about it. It genuinely benefits the game as a whole to use GWS and an academy as the vehicle to grow it in NSW.

Sydney getting an academy though is an absolute rort, how anyone can argue it with a straight face is laughable

If you are going to argue that GWS should have an academy to 'grow the game in NSW', then you can't argue against the other three northern clubs having exactly the same basis - which is effectively what all 4 northern clubs are doing.

There are not hundreds of AFL quality footballers pumping out of Sydney every year - if there was, why are so few being drafted? (even now). It will take a generation + for NSW to get anywhere near producing a quantity of players that gets anywhere near its population proportion - and that's before the fact such an outcome is always highly unlikely.

I don't care if the AFL wants to run the academy model - but I do care about seeing more footy talent coming out of northern states. The AFL proved previously it is purely incompetent at achieving that, and if you are going to ask clubs to do it and pump a lot of $ into it, then they should get reward for doing so.

But then one needs to start with a view of a betterment of the game as a whole, rather then their club for that to hold. And many struggle with that concept.

I don't discredit sydney and GWS put effort and work in up there, what i have an issue with is that we have several teams that get exclusive access to obvious lucrative talent pools nobody else gets. If we are serious about equality, then let Geelong and all other teams help grow the game in sydney and start their own academies to further build the game in NSW. if it is about true growth and development this can only become a beneficial thing for NSW and the AFL wider community, why should two clubs only reap the benefits?? that is selfish and not in the interest of the games development.

either let all clubs dive into the NSW market and help grow the game and get even more athletes involved, or simply hand it back to the AFL to continue it.

You genuinely think there is this lucrative talent pool just sitting there, going to waste? You truly have NFI do you. Go and see just how many people have gone through the northern academies, and how many have gone on to play AFL footy afterwards. But take your 'poor widdle geelong' blinkers off first.

This paints a very interesting picture indeed: Original Clubs for All AFL/VFL Drafted Players - Draftguru . That is if you want to try and understand the problem that led to the academies in the first place - which I don't think you really do.

 

[raskolnikov]

Geelong supporters are so self-entitled.

 

[mcs095]

it is fair because the ratio of males getting females pregnant amongst AFL players i would say is not very discriminating to anyone mate, it doesnt take a genius to work this out. Even if you have 0 F/S for 50 years and another club gets 10, it is still an entirely even system in place. You are talking about equality of outcomes, not equality.

Pretty long time (likely 20+ years) for some form of fairness to be achieved (i.e. a giants or suns player meets the threshold and their kid reaches draft age - let alone actually being any good). That is 2 decades (probably longer) where they are at an absolute disadvantage, irrespective of how equal you claim the system to be.

It is bizarre people are desperate to support some ridiculous 'romantic' notion of Father/Son, but so desperate to attack a system that, over time, will be for the betterment of the league as a whole in absolute terms. All over a sook about a few decent players, where albeit but the earliest couple taken clubs are paying fair market value (as determined by the market) for.

Lets talk about development opportunities and partners jobs and farming shall we?

 

[Elixuh]

Given the continued success of Sydney off the back of the development of a vast quantity of top end academy picks, as well as GWS feeding off this despite significant exodus of players, the question simply is should GWS and Sydney be given such strong regions that are already compromised of established AFL gun kids, or should they be removed and given similar zonings to all the other clubs in developing areas?

What is your suggestion to develop talent in NSW and Qld if you remove academies? You just want to gut it and propose no viable alternative.

What if we just changed the name from academies to something like The Sydney Swans Center for kids who can’t play football good and who wanna learn to do other stuff good too.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

My reply was to someone who supposedly wants an equal comp. Asked a question to confirm if he was genuine. I doubt it.

how can sydney or GWS not get F/S picks? i am sure the past players of sydney and GWS have the same sexual rights as all other past club players do.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Pretty long time (likely 20+ years) for some form of fairness to be achieved (i.e. a giants or suns player meets the threshold and their kid). That is 2 decades where they are at an absolute disadvantage, irrespective of how equal you claim the system to be

It is bizarre people are desperate to support some ridiculous 'romantic' notion of Father/Son, but so desperate to attack a system that, over time, will be for the betterment of the league as a whole in absolute terms. All over a sook about a few decent players, where albeit but the earliest couple taken clubs are paying fair market value (as determined by the market) for.

it is not ridiculous it is quite a big deal for geelong to have the abletts running around, collingwood to have the daicos boys.. it brings alot to the game. Sydney GWS GC will have the same at some point.
you really are exxagerating this advantage of the F/S system.. it gives on average i would say to most clubs if you want to iron it out an ok player every 20 years or so. You are talking like it is pumping it kids to each vic club every year. Most of these kids who do come through as well are late picks.

the past 3 years has been a bit of a freakish outlier with Darcy, Daicos, and now Ashcroft. That is not very common to happen.