List Mgmt. Should The Eagles Request A Priority Assistance Package at The End of This Year?

[WCE_authentic]

Either way they essentially got 4 end of first round picks and an end of 2nd, there's no argument to be made against us receiving at least some form of assistance

More damage than good to whom? Part of the reason we're in this position is the compounded consequences of such a compromised draft over the last however many years, the least the AFL could do is allow us to be on the receiving end for once, instead of their pet northern clubs and by extension the victorian clubs that use them as a feeder. If norf can get assistance after 9.5 wins in 3 seasons, including a shortened one, then why shouldn't we get some after 10 wins across 3 full seasons?

The question was about WCE whining to afl for a 3rd round pick. This doesn't help at all, whatever the player provides, you have 40 other players deflated by the knowledge that they play for a handout club. WCE supporters keep comparing us to NM, you really want to be like them? How much has it helped all the handouts they have received. You are looking in all the wrong places to create a successful club; recruit well, develop well, coach well, play well and let your opposition whine about your success.

 

[Andyy]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better coaching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

 

[kranky al]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better caching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

Not the worst take I’ve read!!

Kudos.


Everything we do that tampers with the draft kicks a can down the road elsewhere - your idea is a workable response that will help clubs without ripping others off.

Our second pick last year is testament to that.

 

[Bestbird]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better caching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

If the draft wasn't so compromised i would agree but when you are trying to rebuild and like last year the 1st pick in the 2nd round goes from 19 out to 30 there should be some compensation

 

[stallon]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better caching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

We should definitely ask, it forces the AFL to make a decision and to justify their position. Provides clarity to everybody fans and clubs about what constitutes priority picks.

North obviously got a heap in the last 2 years, with some of the stuff they got last year technically being 2024 priority picks. If North qualify and the Eagles dont, then we want to know what that line is, because there isnt much of a gap there.

If the AFL deny the Eagles due to recent success then itll clarify the situation for Richmond too, and stops the AFL from doing any funny business by denying the Eagles then going and giving the Tigers(or even Melbourne/Collingwood if they fall off) some in the near future.

The AFL recognises that Tasmania is coming soon, and wont want any of their bigger clubs to be left languishing at the bottom of the ladder partway through a rebuild, getting delayed by potentially 3-4 years. I cant see the AFL not giving out something to Richmond if they havent shown signs if rising up the ladder/improving by 2026.

Then you have to consider the AFL essentially hands out priority picks to all the north eastern clubs every single year with their academy kids, hard to deny struggling clubs when that rort is still going on.
3 of those 4 northeast clubs were in the top 5 on the ladder too.

 

[CountryLad]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better caching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

Don’t disagree with most of your points however.

We should revisit this in 3 years time when the Tigers have won 10 games in that time and you’re going to the draft with pick one and what will probably be pick 30. I wonder what your thoughts on a Pp package will be then?

You may hit the draft this year if you trade out Rioli, Bolton and Baker but that is going to mean a tough 70-100 games for the Tigers as the kids you draft in become men.

You will be surprised how quickly the supporter base runs out of patience after 3 seasons of uncompetitive football and faced with another one in front of them.

 

[Andyy]

We should definitely ask, it forces the AFL to make a decision and to justify their position. Provides clarity to everybody fans and clubs about what constitutes priority picks.

North obviously got a heap in the last 2 years, with some of the stuff they got last year technically being 2024 priority picks. If North qualify and the Eagles dont, then we want to know what that line is, because there isnt much of a gap there.

If the AFL deny the Eagles due to recent success then itll clarify the situation for Richmond too, and stops the AFL from doing any funny business by denying the Eagles then going and giving the Tigers(or even Melbourne/Collingwood if they fall off) some in the near future.

The AFL recognises that Tasmania is coming soon, and wont want any of their bigger clubs to be left languishing at the bottom of the ladder partway through a rebuild, getting delayed by potentially 3-4 years. I cant see the AFL not giving out something to Richmond if they havent shown signs if rising up the ladder/improving by 2026.

Then you have to consider the AFL essentially hands out priority picks to all the north eastern clubs every single year with their academy kids, hard to deny struggling clubs when that rort is still going on.
3 of those 4 northeast clubs were in the top 5 on the ladder too.

The easiest thing to do is never give anyone a priority pick, ever. Per my other post, give them money (plenty of clubs of helplessly reliant on the AFL here) to invest in coaching, club management, list management, TPP caps etc.

A pick here and there does SFA for the revival of a club but any good player will take years to develop and thus the other players already at the club get sick of it and leave because nobody cares for loyalty anymore these days, and they'll all end up at Geelong etc.

Not the worst take I’ve read!!

Kudos.


Everything we do that tampers with the draft kicks a can down the road elsewhere - your idea is a workable response that will help clubs without ripping others off.

Our second pick last year is testament to that.

Thank you for reading my post and for your kind and measured response.

 

[Andyy]

Don’t disagree with most of your points however.

We should revisit this in 3 years time when the Tigers have won 10 games in that time and you’re going to the draft with pick one and what will probably be pick 30. I wonder what your thoughts on a Pp package will be then?

You may hit the draft this year if you trade out Rioli, Bolton and Baker but that is going to mean a tough 70-100 games for the Tigers as the kids you draft in become men.

You will be surprised how quickly the supporter base runs out of patience after 3 seasons of uncompetitive football and faced with another one in front of them.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not going to be guilty of something that hasn't come to pass.

I have strong beliefs on this - no PP's for any club, ever. It's like negative gearing in real estate - we should NOT compensate people for making poor decisions and investments. They need to be given the tools to learn to manage themselves better. For clubs this means running a successful business and having the tools and resources to retain players.

The academy and other priority systems are a joke and should be abolished too. The only concession that I'm content with in an existential sense is the father-son rule.

I'm a 23 consecutive year Richmond member and have eaten my fair share of shit over that time. All I ever had as a child was Richo and it killed me when he retired. I was nearly 29 when they first won a flag and I'm happy to go another 20+ years without.

 

[stallon]

The easiest thing to do is never give anyone a priority pick, ever. Per my other post, give them money (plenty of clubs of helplessly reliant on the AFL here) to invest in coaching, club management, list management, TPP caps etc.

A pick here and there does SFA for the revival of a club but any good player will take years to develop and thus the other players already at the club get sick of it and leave because nobody cares for loyalty anymore these days, and they'll all end up at Geelong etc.

Picks that are forced to be traded however do(in theory) help clubs raise their floor by adding some senior bodies to go with the young lists.

North are in a shit situation where theyre a small club so the best they could attract are the likes of Stephens/Fisher types.
Eagles or Richmond in a rebuild can still attract decent players, as we have seen with Baker notably, but theres been other players too who have been interested.

A couple of picks to assist in getting a guy like Baker while not taking away from the draft hand, and compensating for the already heavily compromised draft where the bottom teams 2nd rounder blew out to pick 30 last year wouldnt be a bad thing imo

 

[WCE_authentic]

Picks that are forced to be traded however do(in theory) help clubs raise their floor by adding some senior bodies to go with the young lists.

North are in a shit situation where theyre a small club so the best they could attract are the likes of Stephens/Fisher types.
Eagles or Richmond in a rebuild can still attract decent players, as we have seen with Baker notably, but theres been other players too who have been interested.

A couple of picks to assist in getting a guy like Baker while not taking away from the draft hand, and compensating for the already heavily compromised draft where the bottom teams 2nd rounder blew out to pick 30 last year wouldnt be a bad thing imo

The reason pick1 round2 (P1R2) blew out to 30 is because of the PP given to NM and the afl's other sentimental market distorting programs (NGA and FS). So you are arguing for more of this, maybe Richmonds P1R2 will blow out to 100, then they can ask for more PP's next year and P1R2 will go to 200.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

The easiest thing to do is never give anyone a priority pick, ever.

That would be the easiest thing, sure. But given that isn’t the system in which we live and our recent draft hands have been diluted by PP’s to other clubs and are continually diluted by the academies, we need to work within the system.

We should ask, but I doubt we will get anything because, you know, AFL making shit up as they go.

But I think most agree there shouldn’t be PP’s and the academy inequities should be sorted urgently. Dont disagree with your other ideas either. But until they are a reality. It is what it is.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better coaching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

Or how about just not hamstringing us when we have smaller pool of off field staff to hire from and have to pay more to get anyone from over east to move over by kneecapping the soft cap several years ago to suit the broke clubs, and then only gradually increasing it since? That would be a much better idea than doing what they did and then acting like it's a gift to let us spend our own money. Our soft cap should be higher than victorian clubs by default with our travel demands and smaller hiring pool.

Norf essentially got 4 end of first rounders and an end of 2nd rounder over a couple of years, we absolutely should be asking. Our limited draft hand over the last few seasons has been further diluted by norfs handouts, increasing numbers of academy picks, fudged free agent compo and more and more frequent 18 year olds who make it clear they don't want to leave victoria before being drafted. We need to be pulling any lever that can level the uneven playing field we're currently on.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Doubt WCE will get one and I don't think they should ask.

Won a flag and have bottomed out.

Richmond the same, also shouldn't get one.

Norf is a crap club but I also don't agree with PP's for them either.


AFL assistance should come in the form of funding, increased soft caps + increased TPP caps IMO. To allow better caching, support staff, and contracts to either attract trade/FA targets or retain players already at the club.

Similar to the Sydney COLA rort, I'd like to see the 18th club receive an additional 10% TPP and then the clubs in 15-17th receiving a tapered increase as well.

I think we're all on the same page fundamentally - PPs are part of why the draft is so compromised/complex and should be eradicated

THAT SAID, WC are now at a point where they're in the same position as North we're when they got their first bunch of PPs.

Yes WC won a flag 6yrs ago, but North were making Prelims less than 10yrs ago. They were a successful team that bottomed out too.

WC's performance record over the past 3 years are up there with the worst of all time. WC's last 3 years have been directly affected by the various draft complexities (Inc. North's PP packages) - the second pick for the team that won the spoon was in the 30's.

Anyways - my view is WC would be negligent not to ask and seek the same support as other teams have recieved in the same position. The AFL has created this mess, but this is the system we have to work in.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

The question was about WCE whining to afl for a 3rd round pick. This doesn't help at all, whatever the player provides, you have 40 other players deflated by the knowledge that they play for a handout club. WCE supporters keep comparing us to NM, you really want to be like them? How much has it helped all the handouts they have received. You are looking in all the wrong places to create a successful club; recruit well, develop well, coach well, play well and let your opposition whine about your success

It should be the same as norfs 2022 package, whatever that was. No one will be deflated, the players couldn't care less, do you think brisbane are deflated by the knowledge they're getting essentially 2 number 1 picks for free or that st kilda will probably get pick 8 for battle? The players don't concern themselves with list management, they play football.

The "handouts" are being given to clubs in far better positions than us every single year and in increasing amount, there's a reason our 2nd rounder was pick 30 last year. You say recruit well but we are currently at a massive disadvantage in that aspect against majority of the competiton, and no amount of willing it away is going to change that.

 

[Keys]

The decision on priority assistance is usually made during the week before the GF - so next week

If we’d applied for anything you’d think it would have been in the media by now - not from us but AFL house leaks like a sieve (deliberately so)

Have to assume then that we either haven’t asked or were given an indication that any request would be denied

It is what it is

Happy to accept no assistance provided nobody else gets help in the future

 

[WCE_authentic]

It should be the same as norfs 2022 package, whatever that was. No one will be deflated, the players couldn't care less, do you think brisbane are deflated by the knowledge they're getting essentially 2 number 1 picks for free or that st kilda will probably get pick 8 for battle? The players don't concern themselves with list management, they play football.

The "handouts" are being given to clubs in far better positions than us every single year and in increasing amount, there's a reason our 2nd rounder was pick 30 last year. You say recruit well but we are currently at a massive disadvantage in that aspect against majority of the competiton, and no amount of willing it away is going to change that.

Equal favouritism is an oxymoron. "It should be the same as norfs 2022 package", would embed this practice indefinitely, "It should be the same as WCE 2024 package". So you are pro PP, I am not. Dont like NGA, FS or FAC picks either.

 

[Godfather32]

Equal favouritism is an oxymoron. "It should be the same as norfs 2022 package", would embed this practice indefinitely, "It should be the same as WCE 2024 package". So you are pro PP, I am not. Dont like NGA, FS or FAC picks either.

Sure, but while the AFL is handing out all of the above like candy at Halloween, it would be stupid and also negligent for us not to ask the question.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Equal favouritism is an oxymoron. "It should be the same as norfs 2022 package", would embed this practice indefinitely, "It should be the same as WCE 2024 package". So you are pro PP, I am not. Dont like NGA, FS or FAC picks either.

This practice is already embedded indefinitely and atleast if we apply publicly on the above basis and get knocked back then the AFL can't pull out their secret herbs and spices and give it to Richmond in a couple of years if they're in the same boat as us now.

I'm not pro PP, if I could undo all the draft inequalities with the press of a button I would, but that's not the world we live in. Getting on a moral high horse over a different form of draft manipulation is pointless when every other club is smash and grabbing whatever they can, so being in this deep hole that we find ourselves in that is not completely our own doing, we will be even further left in the dust.

 

[archiemoses]

It would be gross mismanagement if we are not pushing for priority picks.

Our ability to rebuild has been directly impacted by these packages given to North combined with northern acadamies. It's our turn now.

 

[kranky al]

This practice is already embedded indefinitely and atleast if we apply publicly on the above basis and get knocked back then the AFL can't pull out their secret herbs and spices and give it to Richmond in a couple of years if they're in the same boat as us now.

I'm not pro PP, if I could undo all the draft inequalities with the press of a button I would, but that's not the world we live in. Getting on a moral high horse over a different form of draft manipulation is pointless when every other club is smash and grabbing whatever they can, so being in this deep hole that we find ourselves in that is not completely our own doing, we will be even further left in the dust.

This is incredibly important.

It’s like bidding on academy / fs picks to force the oppo to use a better pick.

It’s a tactic as much as anything and if nothing else it makes it awfully fun watching the afl twist and turn pathetically trying to defend the indefensible

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

This is incredibly important.

It’s like bidding on academy / fs picks to force the oppo to use a better pick.

It’s a tactic as much as anything and if nothing else it makes it awfully fun watching the afl twist and turn pathetically trying to defend the indefensible

Exactly, we either get some much owed draft capital or we make it harder for the AFL to give it out in the future. I hope the club is doing the right thing and asking in private currently and if the AFL doesn't want to oblige then go public with it, it's not like they do us any favours anyway, in fact they often actively go out of their way to hold us back so it'll make no difference.

 

[kranky al]

Exactly, we either get some much owed draft capital or we make it harder for the AFL to give it out in the future. I hope the club is doing the right thing and asking in private currently and if the AFL doesn't want to oblige then go public with it, it's not like they do us any favours anyway, in fact they often actively go out of their way to hold us back so it'll make no difference.

I think the club should be openly asking for it, if we do it behind closed doors they will have zero incentive to not give the next exactly what we asked for.