Analysis Should we be pursuing a secondary market post-Hobart? If yes, then where?

[DuckYeah]

Stop losing all the time and more people will front up. It all a bit chicken and egg

Not really, fans dont turn up, they need to make money elsewhere.

The winning thing is a myth. When we were goin alright from 13-16 crowds were shit then too

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Stop losing all the time and more people will front up. It all a bit chicken and egg

Unfortunately, a business model for an AFL club can't rely on winning all the time. We have to be able to make a profit or at least break even when we are not winning. Just as we can't rely on playing big drawing opponents like Collingwood and Essendon. We have to be able to get 25,000 to a home game against interstate opponents.

 

[Outtatym]

May as well sell a game to Collingwood and get 60-70-80k to the MCG. Members can still go.

Honestly I feel it's as much a cultural thing to not turn up to games as it is being a small club.

 

[Luke72]

Unfortunately, a business model for an AFL club can't rely on winning all the time. We have to be able to make a profit or at least break even when we are not winning. Just as we can't rely on playing big drawing opponents like Collingwood and Essendon. We have to be able to get 25,000 to a home game against interstate opponents.

I agree with what you’re saying, however winning gets better time slots, more publicity, better opponents…

It is not the only answer, and as DY says we have drawn poor crowds when our form was better, but there’s a lot going against us getting good crowds at the minute.

Selling games is a sugar hit too. We need to be having games in Melbourne most weekends so attendance is part of your routine. Currently you can go 2-3 weeks and not actually be able to attend a game.

The other really damaging thing of our continued poor performance is how it will affect the next generation of supporters. It would be hard as a 7 year old kid to jump on the Kangas when your mates teams are competing for flags.

 

[shintemaster]

Unfortunately, a business model for an AFL club can't rely on winning all the time. We have to be able to make a profit or at least break even when we are not winning. Just as we can't rely on playing big drawing opponents like Collingwood and Essendon. We have to be able to get 25,000 to a home game against interstate opponents.

We've been making profits - with Tasmania obviously - under the worst record of games in both living and the club's history. We don't rely on playing big clubs as we largely never get to do so with the frequency of other teams. If nothing else getting given the scraps will either kill us or force us to be competitive under the worst commercial conditions possible.

 

[Whereitallbegan]

Well if our supporters woke up and start attending Victorian games we wouldn’t have to sell games.
But you can bookmark it the BS excuses will pop up again like going to Grand Prix or seeing some unfunny Yank called heinfeld or I have date on boat cruise.

Honest question! We have 50,000 members, does anyone have a figure as to how many are located within a 100km distance of Melbourne CBD?

 

[Only Forwards]

Not really, fans dont turn up, they need to make money elsewhere.

The winning thing is a myth. When we were goin alright from 13-16 crowds were shit then too

There is a very big difference between our rusted on that go to all Melbourne games and the inflated number that is whatever the thing is that we claim our membership is at.

At no point ever has the increased membership translated to increased crowds. We struggle to draw a crowd against any side that doesn't have roots in Melbourne.

This situation won't be made better if in 25 we are selling 5 games, given how light we are on detail we are for whatever this Perth proposal is this is a possibility no?

It is an economic reality that we will need to sell games. Selling games will impact our ability to grow the Melbourne membership base with people who actually attend the footy.

If Perth is a replacement for Hobart, whatever, in all likelihood we'd draw bigger crowds in Perth than we do in Hobart. However the main members that attend the football already give up 4 games for this I don't want to be giving up a 5th. If Perth is an option it has to be moving a Hobart based game rather than a Melbourne one.

We still need to sort out our replacement games properly.

 

[Wild Kangaroo]

Scrap Tassie, and the the intention of selling a home game to WA. How about the AFL use their brians for once, get Princes park upto standard, boutique stadium - North and smaller teams can use it as a venue to play GWS, GC, Freo, PA, WCE in Melb.

Have a secondary Base in the North West Melbourne like Craigieburn or a place like Coburg/Brunswick ( Step on * toes)

 

[shintemaster]

Scrap Tassie, and the the intention of selling a home game to WA. How about the AFL use their brians for once, get Princes park upto standard, boutique stadium - North and smaller teams can use it as a venue to play GWS, GC, Freo, PA, WCE in Melb.

Have a secondary Base in the North West Melbourne like Craigieburn or a place like Coburg/Brunswick ( Step on * toes)

This makes no sense with the AFL now owning Docklands. Why burn millions more dollars when those millions can be spent directly on supporting the clubs stuck with poor fixtures?

 

[Wild Kangaroo]

This makes no sense with the AFL now owning Docklands. Why burn millions more dollars when those millions can be spent directly on supporting the clubs stuck with poor fixtures?

That's my point. If we were to go and play a game or 3 at Princes Park then there is more games for us to attend instead of missing out on a 'Home' interstate game.

Makes perfect sense

 

[The Warlord]

I'd say the vast majority of those that are logged on in October after a 3-20 campaign are probably going to games bro.

We are the few, the proud and the geeky.

We're always going to be one of the smallest clubs, that's just a fact. I don't see a world where we don't sell games in anytime soon.

Thing that's interesting is we still have a relatively strong brand.

AFL powerhouse tops nation with highest brand value

"Australian brands are as strong as some of the brands playing in the world’s richest and biggest European and American football leagues."

www.zerohanger.com

In this we are the lowest of the Melbourne teams, but only just off the Dogs (like $4m difference in valuation which is something like $40m to $44m) yet the Dogs have had an amazing last ten years with a flag, GF, regular finals, they changed their name etc, managed to squeeze in early on W.

And ALL BECAUSE OF BRADY RAWLINGS we've been shithouse for the last decade. I strongly suspect that when the kids go bang an d we rise up the ladder, we'll be a "glamour team" like we were in the 70s and 90s, and our brand value will rise dramaticaly.

 

[Marstermind]

That's my point. If we were to go and play a game or 3 at Princes Park then there is more games for us to attend instead of missing out on a 'Home' interstate game.

Makes perfect sense

Makes no sense.

Whilst having 11 home games in Melbourne is desirable for us, have you been to Princes Park lately? It would need to be completely bulldozed and rebuilt to get it fit for AFL matches. The AFL just aren't going to torch that sort of money for something that has no benefit for them, taking games away from the stadium they own and not growing the game at all.

 

[shintemaster]

That's my point. If we were to go and play a game or 3 at Princes Park then there is more games for us to attend instead of missing out on a 'Home' interstate game.

Makes perfect sense

No it doesn't - because it is a ground not fit for home games and we would need to be making huge money to offset this - which we won't be, because we don't own it. Any upgrades to make it workable would cost money that would be better placed just contributing to the smaller clubs directly. In all honesty it is a pity there wasn't a vision from the state to open up more surrounds at Arden St as now that it will be on the metro line it has huge capacity and availability to the whole city.

 

[Only Forwards]

Makes no sense.

Whilst having 11 home games in Melbourne is desirable for us, have you been to Princes Park lately? It would need to be completely bulldozed and rebuilt to get it fit for AFL matches. The AFL just aren't going to torch that sort of money for something that has no benefit for them, taking games away from the stadium they own and not growing the game at all.

The only way any sort of boutique stadium makes sense would be if they wanted to build the AFLW properly and then have a stadium that allowed for an appropriate crowd at finals.

To do it for any AFL side is not worth it at all.

We're always going to be one of the smallest clubs, that's just a fact. I don't see a world where we don't sell games in anytime soon.

Agree.

My only real question is if we are selling one to Perth would that mean we are selling 5 total. If so that is a pretty shit go of it for the clubs majority of fans.

I would hazard a guess though that if we did sell games to Perth they would likely be better attended than our games in Hobart.

Further if it was an on going thing and we sold 2 games there (with those games coming from the games we already sell to Hobart) I would be asking the AFL to schedule us in Perth for 4 consecutive games. So that we do a stint there and then done.

 

[Mr north man]

Scrap Tassie, and the the intention of selling a home game to WA. How about the AFL use their brians for once, get Princes park upto standard, boutique stadium - North and smaller teams can use it as a venue to play GWS, GC, Freo, PA, WCE in Melb.

Have a secondary Base in the North West Melbourne like Craigieburn or a place like Coburg/Brunswick ( Step on * toes)

Iv heard rumours Bob Jane racing track is for sale backs on to a train line would have to check the dimensions before a 25k+could be built.

 

[iloveireland]

Sell games to Darwin, it’ll help all the melts

 

[cybercrab]

Iv heard rumours Bob Jane racing track is for sale backs on to a train line would have to check the dimensions before a 25k+could be built.

It would be hard to convince the government to build a station there

 

[The Warlord]

My only real question is if we are selling one to Perth would that mean we are selling 5 total. If so that is a pretty shit go of it for the clubs majority of fans.

Don't know the detail but agree.

I would hazard a guess though that if we did sell games to Perth they would likely be better attended than our games in Hobart.

Yeah, I reckon the AFL is getting worried about the shit turn out for our Hobart games, they want to be starting buzz around the Devils.

Further if it was an on going thing and we sold 2 games there (with those games coming from the games we already sell to Hobart) I would be asking the AFL to schedule us in Perth for 4 consecutive games. So that we do a stint there and then done.

I think that - or something like it - is the plan.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

A proper boutique stadium in Melbourne (Princes Park ect) or a Vic regional centre (Albury/Ballarat/Bendigo ect) would make so much sense for the likes of North/Dogs/Saints who always draw poorly against the interstate teams.

I honestly don't know why it hasn't happened yet. Financially it would make sense and from a growth perspective it would make sense/

When I was growing up I used to really enjoy going to all the different footy grounds, the atmosphere at some of the smaller grounds was always awesome, particularly Princes Park and Whitten Oval.

 

[Only Forwards]

Don't know the detail but agree.

because there is f*** all detail out.

Yeah, I reckon the AFL is getting worried about the shit turn out for our Hobart games, they want to be starting buzz around the Devils.

Our figures in Hobart are underquoted, but still small. I know they are underquoted as the only time I have ever visited there I was not required to scan into the ground. So who knows how many of the crowd were actually not counted?

it doesn't matter anyhow because under quoted or not there is still f*** all that go as see us there.

I think that - or something like it - is the plan.

There is a multi club solution in here where if you get us and 3 other clubs to commit to a short stint (our would be 4 weeks others would be 2-3) it would create a block of games where WC and Freo would not have to travel for a 6 week period and it would solves some to the issues around travelling, from the western clubs about travelling every other week and from other clubs about multiple times travelling to Perth.

Innovation is about being the ones who break through and doing something differently the first time. this could be that.

week 1 WC home, Freo Home
week 2 WC vs NM Freo vs GC
week 3 NM vs GC, Freo vs ADE, WC Vs GWS
Week 4 Freo vs GWS, NM vs Ade, WC vs GC
Week 5 Freo vs NM, WC vs Ade
week 6 WC home, Freo home

Freo WC 6 weeks in Perth
NM 4 weeks in Perth
GC and ADE 3 weeks in Perth
GWS 2 weeks in Perth

2 weeks where there is footy Friday, Saturday, Sunday

it is a fundamental change to the dynamic of how travel is done within the AFL and way more aligned to how things are done in the US sports that the AFL (misguidedly IMO) aspires to be like.

If you ran this sort of a structure for a couple of years we would become pretty adept at playing that ground too.

 

[Only Forwards]

I honestly don't know why it hasn't happened yet. Financially it would make sense and from a growth perspective it would make sense/

Because the smaller clubs see each other as competitors to the slice of the pie we are given when in fact we should make a boutique club allegiance and negotiate as a collective.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Because the smaller clubs see each other as competitors to the slice of the pie we are given when in fact we should make a boutique club allegiance and negotiate as a collective.

The whole Ballarat thing was a debacle. It had so much potential to work for WB, North and Saints, but the AFL blew up that potential by handing it to WB only.

 

[hilly]

If people aren't going to Docklands then I don't see why they would go to Carlton.

 

[Lomas]

If people aren't going to Docklands then I don't see why they would go to Carlton.

15000 at Carlton would make a lot more money for the club than 15000 at docklands.

 

[shintemaster]

The only way any sort of boutique stadium makes sense would be if they wanted to build the AFLW properly and then have a stadium that allowed for an appropriate crowd at finals.

To do it for any AFL side is not worth it at all.


Agree.

My only real question is if we are selling one to Perth would that mean we are selling 5 total. If so that is a pretty shit go of it for the clubs majority of fans.

I would hazard a guess though that if we did sell games to Perth they would likely be better attended than our games in Hobart.

Further if it was an on going thing and we sold 2 games there (with those games coming from the games we already sell to Hobart) I would be asking the AFL to schedule us in Perth for 4 consecutive games. So that we do a stint there and then done.

There's a reason that the AFL weren't super keen on us playing WA games and it has nothing to do with emerging markets. We already play Fremantle & West Coast H&A almost every year to offset other Melbourne clubs getting lots of games against each other. They didn't approve it because they know the only scenario that is fair involves us playing "home" against Fremantle or West Coast with no return "away" game that season. Which would be a leg up for the WA clubs and would have those same aforementioned Melbourne clubs or other clubs competing for a final position up in arms. They wouldn't want us having a guaranteed single game against one of those clubs and the AFL wouldn't want to not be giving us away games in WA against them to offset - because then they have to ask Collingwood et al to actually travel there more than once every half decade.