Rules Sirengate 2 - Freo v North

[Wosh]

 

[Toump Ass]

Carn North.
Well deserved win!

 

[Mop]

I think the rule needs a change either way, to make it absolutely clear. Right now it's a bit wishy washy - did the ump hear it? That can't ever be proven.

Until the siren stops or something. Take away the grey matter

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Well, at least it made a scrappy game a lot more interesting.

 

[maskmcgee]

There's no doubt it was a free kick. Siren clearly goes after the ball is over the line and the boundary umpire has signalled it as out of play. But it's funny because it's Fremantle so nobody cares and it took an hour for someone to create this thread.

 

[Chadwiko]

There's no doubt it was a free kick. Siren clearly goes after the ball is over the line and the boundary umpire has signalled it as out of play.

 

[maskmcgee]

Well done you circled a clock. Has nothing to do with the siren.

 

[Rob]

Is it as simple as saying if the ball crosses the line before the siren it's a free, but if it's after then it's not? I've seen that rule for out on the full, but this isn't an OOF call.

That can't be how the rule works in all cases though, as the ball is still live. Imagine someone kicking for goal before the siren, the siren goes and the ball is dribbling towards goal. Surely an attacker can't just tackle down a defender without the ball to stop him from getting to it and cutting it off. Likewise, remember Rampe climbing the goalpost after the siren, which should have been a free kick? So clearly the siren by itself doesn't prevent free kicks from being paid.

 

[Chadwiko]

Well done you circled a clock. Has nothing to do with the siren.

Sounds like the real scandal is West Australian timekeepers not blowing the siren quick enough then.

 

[Mop]

Sounds like the real scandal is West Australian timekeepers not blowing the siren quick enough then.

The TV time isn't the exact time the keepers us though is it?

I get your point, you can keep hammering out the macro until you find core blame. I ultimately think the prudent thing to do is clarify the rule

 

[Liam Boy]

1. The siren doesn't signal the end of the game, the umpires do.
2. You can't accurately judge the timing from TV coverage. The sound is not in sync. If you've ever been to the footy then you'll know that when there's a big thump, you see it long before you hear it because light is faster than sound. On top of that, sound sync isn't really a priority in TV coverage because it only needs to be close enough for the sake of the entertainment product. Without knowing where the siren sounds from at Optus Stadium, where the TV microphone was placed, how long the video signal takes to reach the server vs. the audio signal etc, impossible to say.

 

[Calcium Man]

Is it as simple as saying if the ball crosses the line before the siren it's a free, but if it's after then it's not? I've seen that rule for out on the full, but this isn't an OOF call.

That can't be how the rule works in all cases though, as the ball is still live. Imagine someone kicking for goal before the siren, the siren goes and the ball is dribbling towards goal. Surely an attacker can't just tackle down a defender without the ball to stop him from getting to it and cutting it off. Likewise, remember Rampe climbing the goalpost after the siren, which should have been a free kick? So clearly the siren by itself doesn't prevent free kicks from being paid.

So if it’s ootf, it has to cross the boundary line before siren for it to be a free?

If that’s the case then the interpretation is correct imo but the call was probably wrong as it looked out before siren.

 

[420]

Congrats North, worthy winners

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Freo deserved to get nothing out of that game after playing so smug and lazy for 95 percent of actual game. But honestly I do not know if it was the right call or not, Freo players really have no right to feel hard done by, quite frankly (supporters a different story)

 

[Rob]

So if it’s ootf, it has to cross the boundary line before siren for it to be a free?

Actually, and bizarrely, it needs to land out of bounds. Rule 10.5:

END OF QUARTER
(a) The end of a quarter occurs when any field Umpire or emergency Umpire first hears the siren sounded by the Timekeepers to signal the end of a quarter. The field Umpire shall acknowledge the siren and bring play to an end by blowing a whistle and holding both arms above their head.
(b) For the avoidance of doubt, if immediately before hearing the siren to end a quarter, a field Umpire is of the opinion that a Player should be awarded a Free Kick or a Mark, the field Umpire shall signal that play has come to an end and then award the Free Kick or Mark to the Player. A Free Kick will not be awarded where the football has been kicked and, after the field Umpire has heard the siren, lands Out of Bounds On the Full.

Why it needs to land out of bounds is beyond me, as you point out the free is when it crosses the line. The ball can land in bounds and still have gone out of bounds between coming off the boot and landing.

But this is not an out of bounds call, it's an separate infringement by a player, that being insufficient intent. See example in my previous post - surely you can't coathanger a player after the siren, especially if the ball remains live. What's the difference here?

If that’s the case then the interpretation is correct imo but the call was probably wrong as it looked out before siren.

I was there and I couldn't hear a ****ing thing! Don't the umpires have an earpiece that the siren is heard through?

 

[Calcium Man]

Actually, and bizarrely, it needs to land out of bounds. Rule 10.5:

END OF QUARTER
(a) The end of a quarter occurs when any field Umpire or emergency Umpire first hears the siren sounded by the Timekeepers to signal the end of a quarter. The field Umpire shall acknowledge the siren and bring play to an end by blowing a whistle and holding both arms above their head.
(b) For the avoidance of doubt, if immediately before hearing the siren to end a quarter, a field Umpire is of the opinion that a Player should be awarded a Free Kick or a Mark, the field Umpire shall signal that play has come to an end and then award the Free Kick or Mark to the Player. A Free Kick will not be awarded where the football has been kicked and, after the field Umpire has heard the siren, lands Out of Bounds On the Full.

Why it needs to land out of bounds is beyond me, as you point out the free is when it crosses the line. The ball can land in bounds and still have gone out of bounds between coming off the boot and landing.

But this is not an out of bounds call, it's an separate infringement by a player, that being insufficient intent. See example in my previous post - surely you can't coathanger a player after the siren, especially if the ball remains live. What's the difference here?



I was there and I couldn't hear a ******* thing! Don't the umpires have an earpiece that the siren is heard through?

Thanks for providing that.

Imo the ball is dead, you can’t pay deliberate/insufficient intent until the ball crosses the line. Therefore if the umpire reckons it was still in play prior to siren then it can’t be a free (I’m basing this on the ootf interpretation as it’s the closest thing).

But I think the ball was likely out and therefore should have been a free. But can’t say I have a problem with umpires call, it’s borderline. Of course it’s also not my team so easy to say that.

 

[maskmcgee]

You can't accurately judge the timing from TV coverage.

Well then let's use the players reactions



Not one North player reacts until the ball is already well over the line.

Nobody's reacted yet. Ball is out of play.



In fact the boundary umpire puts his arm up before any North player reacts. Couldn't be more out of bounds.

 

[Sumwun]

Was at the game and thought it would have been a travesty if Freo drew or won that game. Well played North.

Couldn't understand the review in the first quarter though. Looked to me the mark was juggled over the line. Both umpires said it was a mark, go back and take your kick. Kick a goal and get turned over on review? Thought they could only review whether itwas a goal or not, not the lead up play beforehand.

 

[Mop]

Was at the game and thought it would have been a travesty if Freo drew or won that game. Well played North.

Couldn't understand the review in the first quarter though. Looked to me the mark was juggled over the line. Both umpires said it was a mark, go back and take your kick. Kick a goal and get turned over on review? Thought they could only review whether itwas a goal or not, not the lead up play beforehand.

I agree that was poor.
I took it to be a different "phase" of play if you will.

As I think Dermott Brereton asked (god help us when he's the voice of reason), had he squared it to someone else, say.. Henry for example, would they still review it? I doubt it.

Procedurally I agree it the events of that process need to be reviewed to determine whether it was correct

 

[Profop]

While I’m loathe to give the arc more responsibility surely they could have pretty easily checked if the ball had crossed the line before the siren?

 

[Mop]

While I’m loathe to give the arc more responsibility surely they could have pretty easily checked if the ball had crossed the line before the siren?

It's not within their remit, they only have the responsibility for the goal line.
In addtion, there'd be no way they could measure the siren sound relative. There's no siren snicko

I get what you're saying, but nah.

 

[Profop]

It's not within their remit, they only have the responsibility for the goal line.
In addtion, there'd be no way they could measure the siren sound relative. There's no siren snicko

I get what you're saying, but nah.

I mean that’s not totally accurate. The remit is more about does it impact the score

Arc has been used to check if the ball was touched well away from the goal line in the past

I will say though it does open a can of worms where it gets used for everything which I definitely don’t want

 

[Whisper in the Wind]

The AFL love implementing what they do in the US, so...
In the NBA and NHL when reviewing buzzer-beating events they look at where the ball/puck was when the clock hit 0:00.
If reviewed the same way this would show the correct decision was made.

 

[domin8]

Is it as simple as saying if the ball crosses the line before the siren it's a free, but if it's after then it's not? I've seen that rule for out on the full, but this isn't an OOF call.

That can't be how the rule works in all cases though, as the ball is still live. Imagine someone kicking for goal before the siren, the siren goes and the ball is dribbling towards goal. Surely an attacker can't just tackle down a defender without the ball to stop him from getting to it and cutting it off. Likewise, remember Rampe climbing the goalpost after the siren, which should have been a free kick? So clearly the siren by itself doesn't prevent free kicks from being paid.

The goal would have counted

 

[Mop]

I mean that’s not totally accurate. The remit is more about does it impact the score

Arc has been used to check if the ball was touched well away from the goal line in the past

I will say though it does open a can of worms where it gets used for everything which I definitely don’t want

.. in the act of scoring, not 55m from goal?

They aren’t the same and you know it