Rules Sirengate 2 - Freo v North

[Tony Ongarello]

Does anyone want to talk about whether Walters was actually the closest player when another deliberate OOB call was made before drilling a goal?

 

[Tony Ongarello]

I like how you have no idea how a timer works. When it goes to 0:00 it's really 0:00:99. There's still a whole second left when it shows 0:00.

Maybe you are at the wrong event. I think you probably meant to go to a Formula1 fixture.

 

[Tony Ongarello]

It's a bit strange, from the above clip it is clear the ball hasn't crossed the line when the siren goes, but looking at the vision shown on the footy show (about 0:45 sec in the clip below) it certainly looks like the ball has crossed the line. Seems to be some inconsistency with syncing up the audio

The Logo in the top right hand corner of the screen probably answers your question “Fox” . The Murdoch owned company that also supported Trump conspiracy theorists,,,,,blah blah blah. Need I go on. Seeing is not believing especially on TV. Just look, no umpire gesturing a deliberate OOB free kick, because they heard the siren.

 

[ferball]

No one has a clue how this works do they.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

No one has a clue how this works do they.

Not even the AFL.

 

[Kappa]

True, but also raises the question of which umpire is in charge? Why are they telling each other to pay free kicks?

I also reckon that if they paid the free kick on the night the AFL would justify why it was the correct call. The AFL are never wrong.

It's possible that it's just a split second decision in a grey area and neither decision would have been "wrong".

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It was a correct call, or at least too close to call that the umpires decision must be adhered to,. but an inconsistent interpretation of the rules.

If had been a shot on goal, the ball is still live until it’s either touched or its a score.

Simple tweak to the rules is to make this consistent for all kicks after the siren. Game isn’t over (after umpire calls time) until the ball is touched, out of bounds, a score, or stops moving.

 

[ferball]

Not even the AFL.

The ball is not oob till the boundary ump calls oob.

That's why we teach kids to play to the whistle, not the line.

The boundary ump clearly hasn't finished signalling oob after the siren so regardless of all the other bullshit about where the ball was how, is the field umpire supposed to signal deliberate oob when the boundary ump hasn't even called oob yet?

Who cares if the ball was actually over the line.

The game is played to the umpire's calls not to what we see on field.

If it was players on the mark wouldn't be penalised for moving when the player taking the free moves off their line but the ump hasn't called play on.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

It's possible that it's just a split second decision in a grey area and neither decision would have been "wrong".

Exactly. I just think the AFL should probably tighten that rule up as it's ambiguous as it stands.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

The ball is not oob till the boundary ump calls oob.

That's why we teach kids to play to the whistle, not the line.

The boundary ump clearly hasn't finished signalling oob after the siren so regardless of all the other bullshit about where the ball was how, is the field umpire supposed to signal deliberate oob when the boundary ump hasn't even called oob yet?

Who cares if the ball was actually over the line.

The game is played to the umpire's calls not to what we see on field.

If it was players on the mark wouldn't be penalised for moving when the player taking the free moves off their line but the ump hasn't called play on.

I'm just saying that the AFL's rules aren't clear on what should happen in this situation and they should tighten them up. All they need to add to 18.10.2(b) is the words "crosses the boundary before the siren".

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

This one was frustrating as there were obviously quite a few factors to consider when figuring out what the outcome could/should be

The earlier goal review for Tabs after both a) a mark had been paid and b) the goal had been scored was more of an issue for me. Was the correct call made? Of course. But the goal umpire wasn't sure and should have called a point or for a review when the mark was called not after the goal was kicked.

In a game decided by a point these two were pretty bitter pills to swallow. We by no means deserved to win and probably deserved to lose, however, those two calls hurt as lack of effort, lack of system were in our hands/our calls to make and those two decisions were baffling due to the perceived inconsistencies

 

[Tony Ongarello]

Problem with close finishes is always the risk that the siren won't be heard. This is because an excited crowd can make a huge amount of noise, louder than the siren. I think these days the umps get it in their earpiece. What I do know is that if I am deaf, I can get a telephone that flashes. I have also seen the technology in 1 day cricket where the stumps light up as soon as the bails are removed and this makes runout reviews quite straight forward. Given the grounds seem to have digital advertising boards around the boundary, couldn't they light up in some special way when the siren goes. Video evidence would then be indisputable and could easily be reviewed and adjudicated

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Problem with close finishes is always the risk that the siren won't be heard. This is because an excited crowd can make a huge amount of noise, louder than the siren. I think these days the umps get it in their earpiece. What I do know is that if I am deaf, I can get a telephone that flashes. I have also seen the technology in 1 day cricket where the stumps light up as soon as the bails are removed and this makes runout reviews quite straight forward. Given the grounds seem to have digital advertising boards around the boundary, couldn't they light up in some special way when the siren goes. Video evidence would then be indisputable and could easily be reviewed and adjudicated

Better still just make the rules consistent with kicking at goals on the siren. If the ball is still in midflight when the siren goes off, it’s still a goal. Nobody ever disputes that.

Similarly if the ball is in play when the siren goes, then goes out… it’s out of bounds….and hence in this case a deliberate free kick. In that case it wouldn’t matter exactly when the siren went, as long as it’s after it’s left the players boot.

 

[Erakor]

Ball is clearly over the line when the siren sounds.

People saying it's based on umpires putting their hands in the air and blowing a whistle..how do you do that before the siren and we don't do any of this when a player has a shot in the last few seconds to see if it counts. (Not a set shot, but on the run kick) We go on the siren.

AFL just ****ed up and trying to cover their ass.

 

[Obeanie1]

There's no doubt it was a free kick. Siren clearly goes after the ball is over the line and the boundary umpire has signalled it as out of play. But it's funny because it's Fremantle so nobody cares and it took an hour for someone to create this thread.

Na. It was not clearly over the line.

Next post shows photo with ball in play when clock went 0.00.

Initially thought it was but when you look at the slowed down footage the umpires were spot on.

 

[Erakor]

The ball is over the line when siren goes.

 

[Obeanie1]

Better still just make the rules consistent with kicking at goals on the siren. If the ball is still in midflight when the siren goes off, it’s still a goal. Nobody ever disputes that.

Similarly if the ball is in play when the siren goes, then goes out… it’s out of bounds….and hence in this case a deliberate free kick. In that case it wouldn’t matter exactly when the siren went, as long as it’s after it’s left the players boot.

Was wondering what happens if that kick went OOB on the full but wasn't OOB when the Siren sounded.

Should be treated same as ax shot on goal as you mentioned.

 

[ferball]

Ball is clearly over the line when the siren sounds.

People saying it's based on umpires putting their hands in the air and blowing a whistle..how do you do that before the siren and we don't do any of this when a player has a shot in the last few seconds to see if it counts. (Not a set shot, but on the run kick) We go on the siren.

AFL just ****ed up and trying to cover their ass.

The umpire can't call deliberate oob until the oob has been signalled and that can only happen when the boundary ump signals it. if the siren goes before the boundary ump signals it and an umpire calls full time then the oob didn't happen in game time.

If the boundary ump hasn't called oob then the field ump can't call deliberate oob, its a logical impossibility.

 

[maskmcgee]

Na. It was not clearly over the line.

Next post shows photo with ball in play when clock went 0.00.

Another idiot who doesn't realise the broadcast clock has nothing to do with the siren.

 

[Erakor]

if the siren goes before the boundary ump signals it and an umpire calls full time then the oob didn't happen in game time.

No. You are trying to find a technicality. When someone kicks the ball right on the siren, we don't talk about when the umpire called it. It is when the siren sounds,that's why we have one. AFL is just doubling down on being wrong. The ball is clearly over the line and should have been a free.

 

[ferball]

No. You are trying to find a technicality. When someone kicks the ball right on the siren, we don't talk about when the umpire called it. It is when the siren sounds,that's why we have one. AFL is just doubling down on being wrong. The ball is clearly over the line and should have been a free.

Yeah okay. Whatever...

 

[Big_Birdy]

Actually, and bizarrely, it needs to land out of bounds. Rule 10.5:

END OF QUARTER
(a) The end of a quarter occurs when any field Umpire or emergency Umpire first hears the siren sounded by the Timekeepers to signal the end of a quarter. The field Umpire shall acknowledge the siren and bring play to an end by blowing a whistle and holding both arms above their head.
(b) For the avoidance of doubt, if immediately before hearing the siren to end a quarter, a field Umpire is of the opinion that a Player should be awarded a Free Kick or a Mark, the field Umpire shall signal that play has come to an end and then award the Free Kick or Mark to the Player. A Free Kick will not be awarded where the football has been kicked and, after the field Umpire has heard the siren, lands Out of Bounds On the Full.

Why it needs to land out of bounds is beyond me, as you point out the free is when it crosses the line. The ball can land in bounds and still have gone out of bounds between coming off the boot and landing.

But this is not an out of bounds call, it's an separate infringement by a player, that being insufficient intent. See example in my previous post - surely you can't coathanger a player after the siren, especially if the ball remains live. What's the difference here?



I was there and I couldn't hear a ******* thing! Don't the umpires have an earpiece that the siren is heard through?

What about if a spectator marks the ball in the crowd from the kick? Has that landed?

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it....

 

[Erakor]

Yeah okay. Whatever...

You are trying to tell us the sky is purple. The ball crossed the line clearly and the siren went. It is just an amateur AFL mistake and won't be there last.

 

[big_e]

Better still just make the rules consistent with kicking at goals on the siren. If the ball is still in midflight when the siren goes off, it’s still a goal. Nobody ever disputes that.

Similarly if the ball is in play when the siren goes, then goes out… it’s out of bounds….and hence in this case a deliberate free kick. In that case it wouldn’t matter exactly when the siren went, as long as it’s after it’s left the players boot.

The rule is already consistent with other rules, for instance, the rule on taking a mark. If the ball is in flight when the siren goes, and then the mark is taken afterwards, you don't get paid the mark. Likewise, if the ball is in the air when the siren goes, and then after the siren, it goes over the boundary line, stiff bikkies.

 

[big_e]

Ball is clearly over the line when the siren sounds.

Genuinely interested in why you believe that, when the AFL have released the footage showing the siren went before it crossed the line?