Sledging - What is and isn't acceptable?

[morell]

I read about an interesting case in the NRL this week on Billy Slater sledging his opponent about his history of mental illness, in particular - depression.

This is what Slater said;

Go and have a cry in your room

Hardly the most vicious attack I have ever heard and yet Slater is being made out to be some sort of monster. It made me think about some of the cases we have seen in the AFL. I recall a few of the more famous cases;

Kane Cornes and Will Minson - Apparently Will Minson sledged Kane over his son's ill health at which time Kane had a crack over the death of Will's father. Without knowing the exact transcript its difficult to ascertain how over the top either comments were.

Brett Montgomery and Adam Ramanauskas - Brett apparently commented that Adam's cancer treatment had "gotten to his head".

Nick Riewoldt and Andrew Lovett - Nick commented on Andrews attack on another player with the line - "is that how you bash your missus"

There was also the case where the umpire awarded a free kick against the player for him calling his direct opponent a "weak c***".

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In todays age where political correctness is at the fore, I am in interested to hear from the BigFooty pundits on where they draw the line?

We don't sledge Aboriginals based on the colour of their skin, yet we are happy to sledge Rangas based on the colour of their hair. Is the standard therefore based on historical context?

There was much outcry about Montgomery's attack on Rama, which was apparently unacceptable, yet we can happily accept a physical attack on a persons injury (Chad Cornes attacking Browns knee in '04, Mal Michael on Riewoldt). Is the standard based on the seriousness of the plight?

We sledge people for being physically weak or squibbing out of a contest, yet we are not allowed to sledge them based on a perceived mental illness. Is the standard based on the players ability to control their weakness?

Personally, I think it’s either all or none. We either accept some things that are said on the field might be unsavoury and unacceptable to say in the front bar or we go completely the other way and any verbal abuse to be outlawed. These grey areas only highlight our hypocrisy.

 

[AG]

The Riewoldt sledge was brilliant. It think it was Campbell Brown who did the weak **** sledge but there was nothing wrong with that imo. Just an umpire who wanted the spotlight. I'm not sure about the Slater one, he could have said worse things about depression.

The other two are probably crossing the line.

 

[morell]

The other two are probably crossing the line.

So how would you define that mythical "line" if you had to say, put it in a charter for player conduct?

EDIT - the point being, your line, my line, some other blokes line are all going to be different. We need a set standard or rules in place just like we do for the physical side of the game.

 

[AG]

I don't know, it's one of those unwritten rule things. Death or a serious illness within the family shouldn't be the target of sledging. So maybe depression should be off limits as well.

You can't police it though, so there isn't much the officials can do. It's up the the public to judge the players. Do people think less of Slater now? That might be more of a punishment than a fine or suspension.

Then there are different levels of the sledge. "Go and have a cry in your room" isn't much of a sledge. If he said "go jump off a cliff" or "go neck yourself" then it probably would have caused more outrage.

Just using depression as an example so sorry if anyone on the site is suffering from it.

 

[RUNVS]

Sledging someone about their family is crossing a line.

 

[morell]

Death or a serious illness within the family shouldn't be the target of sledging. So maybe depression should be off limits as well.

Why?

What about "I shagged your sister" - it's related to the persons family, its got nothing to do with football. Is that OK?

What about "You dirty Muslim" - the player has chosen that religion, it's a choice so can we sledge on that?

etc

 

[morell]

Sledging someone about their family is crossing a line.

Why?

What about "I shagged your sister" - it's related to the persons family, its got nothing to do with football. Is that OK?

 

[AcidFiend]

I think the imaginary line you draw is fatal illness/death of family members and your children. Those targets are too soft and should make the sledger seem the real coward IMO.

Everything else is fair game, depression included.

 

[AG]

Why?

What about "I shagged your sister" - it's related to the persons family, its got nothing to do with football. Is that OK?

How does a root relate to death or an illness? That sledge is fine.

What about "You dirty Muslim" - the player has chosen that religion, it's a choice so can we sledge on that?

Religion and race seem to be understood as off limits by the majority.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Right or wrong the world as a whole needs to harden the **** up.

90% of todays population would have been in counselling 20 years ago.

we all survived without to many problems.

What happens on a footy field should stay on a footy field.

 

[morell]

So maybe depression should be off limits as well.

Everything else is fair game, depression included.

This is my point. Two seemingly sensible posters. Two different set of standards. Both probably perfectly justifiable.

As I said, I reckon you need to either rule it all completely out or make it free for all.

 

[Brewster_]

I think the imaginary line you draw is fatal illness/death of family members and your children. Those targets are too soft and should make the sledger seem the real coward IMO.

Everything else is fair game, depression included.

I agree. Predictable and lacking any kind of creative thought.

I remember that umpire (can't remember which, could have been McClaren) paying a 50 metre penalty to Jude Bolton? when Mark Johnson called him a weak dog. So apparently for that umpire, that was crossing the line, which is hilarious.

 

[AG]

I'm 50/50 with depression. It's the persons choice to come out and say they are struggling with it, so be prepared to cop some from the opposition.
I doubt the player would take to the field unless they had recovered and were in a better frame of mind, so they should be able to handle insults. On the flip side, it is an illness that can lead to suicide.

It's not a matter of HTFU, it's the presence of the media, microphones on officals etc. Harder to get away with anything in the current era.

 

[simba_]

Just look at it like you would dealing with people... saying "I shagged your sister" is fine but saying "your son has cancer and I hope he dies", well that would be met with a beatdown on the streets, on the footy field you cannot do that as you will be heavily suspended so what should happen? What can happen? Can you dob on them? Can you settle it after the match, no, that'll be even worse for you and your clubs image. Unless it's done in a Fight Club like environment.

FTR as if Chad giving Jono a playful knock on the knee in the GF is noteworthy.. No rose colored glasses here at all, but it looked like a light playful knock knock didn't it? That's how I've always seen it, bit of a "how's this gonna hold up today mate".

 

[morell]

I'm 50/50 with depression. It's the persons choice to come out and say they are struggling with it, so be prepared to cop some from the opposition.
I doubt the player would take to the field unless they had recovered and were in a better frame of mind, so they should be able to handle insults. On the flip side, it is an illness that can lead to suicide.

How does it differ from cancer eg the Montgomery/Rama case?

 

[morell]

Just look at it like you would dealing with people... saying "I shagged your sister" is fine but saying

Say that to the wrong bloke and you would have a bit of biff on your hands I reckon.

Again, different standards for different people.

To make one thing clear, I am not saying my personal standard is any of this is unacceptable or acceptable, my point is to highlight the hypocrisy and grey area in the AFL's rulebooks on this issue.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Brett Voss lining up for a set shot.

Michael Voss runs past... "Oi... my dad ****ed your mum!"

Brett Voss shanks the kick.

That's how it's done.

 

[pazza]

Brett Voss lining up for a set shot.

Michael Voss runs past... "Oi... my dad ****ed your mum!"

Brett Voss shanks the kick.

That's how it's done.

Too clever by half!

 

[simba_]

Say that to the wrong bloke and you would have a bit of biff on your hands I reckon.

Again, different standards for different people.

To make one thing clear, I am not saying my personal standard is any of this is unacceptable or acceptable, my point is to highlight the hypocrisy and grey area in the AFL's rulebooks on this issue.

Yeah I guess so, but every footballer should understand the elite game they are playing and the fact that other footballers are going to say outrageous things to put them off. They SHOULD be able to differentiate between things that are (however borderline) said to put them off and said to get to them. But yes it's a very very messy area, easy to get around too, all kinds of excuses can be made up to get out of sledges said to really piss someone off. One thing we don't want is for the AFL to allow the Umpires to make decisions depending on what has been said, because that's the last thing we want, more power to the Umps, them using their brains to dictate what is wrong and right... .

 

[Mitchell Madness]

The only thing i think is unacceptable on a footy fieldis making fun of a family member with a disabilty or illness or the death of someone.

I am a depression sufferer myself, but even I would cop it on the footy field

 

[Pie eyed]

So how would you define that mythical "line" if you had to say, put it in a charter for player conduct?

EDIT - the point being, your line, my line, some other blokes line are all going to be different. We need a set standard or rules in place just like we do for the physical side of the game.

You generally know when you have crossed the line when the recipient punches you in the head.

For what it's worth I reckon sledging adds to the game. Even though it's not always clear what was said at the time.

Some, very few, have probably been regretted by the sledger, but that would be the vast minority and as far as I can tell these "line crossing" sledges have nearly always been followed by post match apologies.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Adam Selwood Board.

Family members are out of bounds in some instances.

Example: I remember playing soccer once - and an opposition player sledged a team mate of mine about wanting to root his down syndrome sister.

Our entire side just mauled him for the rest of the game.

 

[morell]

Adam Selwood Board.

Exactly.

What he said was so bad that it cause Des to lose the plot, but apparently it is fair game...

This is what the grey areas and a lack of a solid definitive standard causes.

 

[83 Hawks]

Someone will always sledge on any subject not specifically banned under the rules of the game (and even then there will be the occasional transgression).
How far each individual will go will be based on their own personal history, set of values and being able to 'live with' the comment once the game is over. For example, I hold the view that a footy field is a very abnormal and heated environment, so almost anything goes. Yet, clearly contradictory and hypocritical to that, I have lost family members to cancer so consider that area off limits.
Everyone will have their own different values, and anything not legislated agaisnt will be considered fair game by some.

It is the rules which effectively make some areas off limits. For example, it is a certainty that some players would still use racial abuse if it were not outlawed and subject to heavy penalties. As much as society has changed and players been educated, it is naive to think that off 650 odd players there are no racists, or that would use race to taunt an opponent if they could 'get away with it'.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The problem is that people will reactly differently to different sledges.

Its too hard to make a black and white rule on the matter.