So... a guy got beheaded in front of my office today

[cancat]

This situation isn't that religious either.

Its firstly economic: tonnes of bored young men looking for meaning in life.

There have been plenty of bored young men looking for meaning in life over the years. But it's not economic; it's social. And now combined with Islamic extremism is very dangerous.

Secondly its collateral damage from a war. We kill millions and millions of innocent civilians in muslim countries for two decades, whilst the average muslim can't strike back militarily.... and this happens. Its unfortunate, but lets not forget muslims didn't invent suicide bombs (that was the hindu's) and they certainly aren't as good at terrorism as the IRA (who are catholics) or even as downright scary as those Japanese communist terrorists (they were.... well yeah jap commies) who shot up Tel Aviv.

Nah, this bloke is British born, Nigerian ancestry. He's just another loser looking for a cause.

 

[Pie eyed]

Odd co-incidence hey?

Believe it or not my main reason for checking this thread tonight was to see how things are going with you.

So how is the brain going now the events have had time to sink in?

 

[LouisCK]

If people knew the actual history of Ireland(not the lazy Catholic vs Portestant line) the Church of Ireland Protestants were also treated poorly at times by the Scots Presbyterians because many sided with the native Catholic population because they themselves were overall native Irish.

Pretty sure my family sided with the Prods for the most part, but yeah, its amazing how many famous Irish people (and very outwardly pro-Republic ones at that) are actually Church of Ireland Anglicans.

 

[Malifice]

Believe it or not my main reason for checking this thread tonight was to see how things are going with you.

So how is the brain going now the events have had time to sink in?

Thanks mate.

Yeah, all OK personally. Still feels quite surreal.

The feeling on the ground is pretty calm. I get the vibe that most people see this as a pretty isolated attack by some pretty disturbed and deluded individuals. Woolwich is a very ethnically diverse place with a ton of Nigerian and Caribbean migrants (most devout Christians) and a sizeable Muslim religious population. Ethnic and religious diversity abounds.

Still aside from a handful of EDL nutters, there isn't the kind of tension that may have erupted in response to two black Muslim guys murdering a white soldier in broad daylight.

Bear in mind that this place was ground zero for the recent riots. The pub two doors down was burnt to the ground during the riots and has only just recently been rebuilt.

I'm putting it down to people kinda getting that this was just a pair of idiots who were not representative of either Nigeria, Woolwich or Islam generally.

Just an awful tragedy.

 

[LouisCK]

I got scammed by some Nigerians in Tokyo once, so I'm all for declaring war on Nigeria over this, for the record.

dodgy bastards the lot of them

 

[Malifice]

Nah, this bloke is British born, Nigerian ancestry. He's just another loser looking for a cause.

Pretty much this.

And notably, his 'cause' has branded him a ****ing idiot and washed their hands of him.

Apparently he was preaching down near the DLR stop the other day. Looks like he decided actions speak louder than words.

 

[Malifice]

I got scammed by some Nigerians in Tokyo once, so I'm all for declaring war on Nigeria over this, for the record.

Hey, don't bag out Nigerians. I work with a few.

I'm also in email correspondence with a Nigerian princess. All I have to do is deposit £2000 in a foreign bank account, and not only will she marry me, but I stand to inherit over a million quid.

I'm on a certain winner.

 

[Stewies Power]

Unfortunately in the not to distant future there will be a wave of home grown Islamic extremists in the UK because of shit like this... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...sques-teaching-extreme-views-to-children.html

 

[Malifice]

Press conference from The Muslim Council of Britain:

Farooq Murad, the MCB's secretary general, said he wanted to express his "outrage and horror" at what took place.

The culprits had "insulted Allah and dishonoured our faith" he said.

He added: "It has no basis in Islam and we condemn it unreservedly."

"We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country's Armed Forces, proudly and with honour."

"This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder."

 

[Malifice]

Unfortunately in the not to distant future there will be a wave of home grown Islamic extremists in the UK because of shit like this... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...sques-teaching-extreme-views-to-children.html

Even in the article you cited it claims that was a one off thing (and you cited the Telegraph FFS).

Miss this bit:

Dr Taj Hargey, founder of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford, said: "This is totally against Islam.

"This is something that is deeply humiliating and shameful to Muslims to hear other Muslims describe people of other religions in such derogatory, disparaging terms."

A spokesman for the Department of Education said: "The Government does not support the use of physical punishment in schools and other children's settings."

?

 

[Maggie Greg]

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colourful uniqueness:
United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris --car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%
Of course, that's not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

That is bullshit about Albania. There has never been religious violence in Albania. They are more concerned about being united as Albanians than divided by religion. The religion split has been that way for centuries.

Nothing like massive generalisations to make your point though.

 

[Stewies Power]

Even in the article you cited it claims that was a one off thing (and you cited the Telegraph FFS).

Miss this bit:



?

Ever heard of taqiyya?

 

[Malifice]

Ever heard of taqiyya?

You're suggesting that the overwhelming majority of moderate Muslims... are faking it? And that Muslim leaders who condemn such attacks... are lying and secretly actually plot and/or condone them?

My Muslim neighbour is plotting on killing me? My Turkish mate who I play D&D with is planning on slaying me like I was a CR 2 Orc worth 200xp?

The bad ones are bad, and the good ones are lying eh?

Lol.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Good ol Malifice....bigfootys resident dhimmi apologist at it again. If blokes being beheaded in broad daylight on the streets of London isnt enough for you to acknowledge there is a problem, I would hate to see what would. Its nauseating to see your continuing dismissal of anyone who has concerns as a bigoted nutbag.

And now your a mod. Christ.

 

[Malifice]

Good ol Malifice....bigfootys resident dhimmi apologist at it again.

What are you on about?

Where did I apoligise for Islamic militants, or even specifically the guys that killed this poor bloke?

Read the OP. I was slightly annoyed that the cops didnt pump more rounds into them.

If blokes being beheaded in broad daylight on the streets of London isnt enough for you to acknowledge there is a problem, I would hate to see what would.

Err.. where have I ever said there is not a problem with Islamic militantism?

I just dont think that all Muslims are killers, fundementalists or militants. In fact its fair to say that the overwhelming majority are not.

Its nauseating to see your continuing dismissal of anyone who has concerns as a bigoted nutbag.

I have concerns! Does that make me a bigoted nutbag?

The only idiots I dismiss as bigoted nutbags are the likes of R00star and co, who are self professed bigoted nutbags.

And now your a mod. Christ.

Cry me a river. Whats that got to do with anything?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Ok Mal, i'll do you a deal.

When you can engage in a single discussion regarding Islam and its continuing penchant for stonings, beheadings, female circumcision etc etc without insisting on trying to hijack it by continually drawing some moral or level of threat equivalancies with other non Islamic religions circa 2013, ill happily admit I have judged you harshly.

 

[Sanders]

Ok Mal, i'll do you a deal.

When you can engage in a single discussion regarding Islam and its continuing penchant for stonings, beheadings, female circumcision etc etc without insisting on trying to hijack it by continually drawing some moral or level of threat equivalancies with other non Islamic religions circa 2013, ill happily admit I have judged you harshly.

That you think such bigoted views are reasonable & moderate is just terrifying

 

[blackcat]

Wiki leak emails showed nothing except collecting intel, their were questionable ways of collecting that intel such as money laundering and black mail, as well as concealing their own assets.

But nothing about assassins or "other responsibilities" so where are you getting your information?

the guys with links to militants in Islamabad that were knocked off last year

 

[blackcat]

I can guarantee that civilians are never deliberately targeted and a lot of these irregular forces do target civiliansOkay Im seriously thinking of going on Sunday Arvo where do you sit?

Except of course when civilian infrastructure is deliberately targeted with civilians inside. To begin with.

heheheh. weddings.

hehehhe. fallujah.

shock and awe.

hey jetwah, what were cheney's and dubbya's comments about fallujah when the killed those blackwater mercs? did you know the historical narrative of fallujah. not some time year zero arbitrary beginning that dubbya calls the flag on that the world had changed...

 

[blackcat]

regarding Islam and its continuing penchant for stonings, beheadings, female circumcision

that shit stands on its own two feet. no right thinking mind issues an apologia. perhaps a left thinking mind might hehehe.


the female circumcision tho, that is more african cultural act, you dont want me to be relative and compare it to male circumcision... no concern. yes it is predominantly islamic sects/tribes in n. africa. but it is more related to anthropology of tribes, but THERE is overwhelming correlation to islam indeed. but correlation in this case, =/= primary cause/motive.

 

[MaddAdam]

Ok (deep breath) I will say it again when civilians are in the vicinity strikes are aborted,

No, the opening stages of any Western military campaign involves air strikes on civilian targets from water and electricity plants, to media centres, to transport hubs and industrial works.

Also, you can save the party line. I've interviewed enough guys who are shattered for life by the things they saw and did in Afghan and Iraq.

All of them say the same thing. That there's only two things that get to you and killing bad guys, even close up, is not one of them. Seeing friends hurt/killed and seeing civilians, especially kids hurt/killed, in stuff where they know they were careless or deliberately targeted areas knowing civilians were at risk.

I met dozens of guys who all said the same thing, who'd all seen it.

Targeting civilians is routine.

 

[MaddAdam]

The guy killed has been identified.

Served as a machine gunner in Afghanistan.

Legitimate target.

 

[blackcat]

Muslim fundamentalism is different in that it seeks to be a worldwide revolutionary movement. And their goals are totally at odds with Western ideals such as democracy, secular society, equality between men and women, separation of religion and state.

much of the militancy in the ME is just nationalism and wishing to expel the yanks and the zionists (not ad hominem) like hexbollah needed to get the IDF out from occupation because they would have annexed up to litani for water resources at the least. in wwII we called this resistance.

the dumb heck bin laden martyrdom shit, dont need to justify that crap as it stands on its own and its own reason/rationale (lack of)

 

[blackcat]

No, the opening stages of any Western military campaign involves air strikes on civilian targets from water and electricity plants, to media centres, to transport hubs and industrial works.

shock and awe.

better code for terrorist strike you could not find

 

[MaddAdam]

The IRA? They were Catholic.

Religion played a massive part in that one as well.

The IRA was not a sectarian organisation. Many of its greatest heroes were Protestants. The vast majority of the brutal sectarian violence solely targeting civilians of the "other" religion in that conflict was carried out by various Protestant Loyalist groups, aided and abeted we are now finding out, by the British state.

This is not to say the IRA did not target and cause huge civilians casualties. But they didn't do it purely on sectarian terms.