Autopsy So so so close (Please read OP)

[jonbe54]

We're all hurting mate but you've lost the plot

Doesn't have a plot - has an agenda.

 

[jonbe54]

I know there is nothing we can do about it but our win loss ratio in GF's is unacceptable.
When we were 5 goals up in the first qtr I wasn't excited. I just knew we would blow it again. And we did.

You really need to look back at the personnel we had during many of those GF years Otto - probably as much as 1/3 of those sides simply shouldn't have made the GF because they were simply not good enough - exactly the same as this year.

We made a GF at least a year too early with this list.

 

[No SPIN]

You out your mind if you think, getting Nick Maxwell and Longmuire to fix all the ills of this club deserves an extension. The guy is 0-3 in grand finals as a player and coach. And if you wanna be a smart arse and claim his role as an assistant in 2010/11, he’s 1-4-1.

Despite this lovefest for Bucks, and a great effort on Saturday, you can’t hide from the fact we choked when it mattered. I don’t care if Bucks is “all class”. How about you do what your paid for; win the cup.

What is it, 2 premierships from 14 grand finals since 1958? It’s not bloody good enough. It’s professional sport. The club even has “the premiership is a cakewalk” in the theme songs. We aren’t meant to be coming second.

Home deck, vs a weagles side that is hardly a powerhouse. This wasn’t the lions of 02/03 or cats 07 to 11 or hawks of 2012 to 2015.

Ripe for the picking, and when it mattered we couldn’t keep the ball off the eagles for 3 mins. We couldn’t keep the ball in our fwd half for 3 mins. We didn’t play the percentages and play the boundary line and make it stoppage after stoppage after stoppage. And in the end, Sheed is left all alone on the HFF. This isn’t bad luck. It’s bad planning.

3 wins and 10 losses since 2014 where the winning margin is 6 or less points. This loss was not bad luck, or the bounce of the ball. Out coached, and the game plan failed to stand up for 4 qtrs, yet again.

Taking away the great first 20 minutes of the first quarter, we were beaten 11.11-77 to 6.7-37. That is unacceptable. That is a choke job no matter how you spin it. 40 point turnaround with 1:38 left on the clock in the 1st qtr.

You can not have 40 point turnarounds in a Grand Final. If this was a Ross Lyon coach side, or anyone else for that matter, we’d be calling it what it is. A piss poor gameplan that over uses the ball and that’s only sustainable under pressure for 1 quarter in a GF.

At least in 1970, we can blame poor goal kicking and McKenna getting concussion. You cant seriously keep feeding the ego of Buckley with the “oh so brave so close bravo”. He failed to take the ultimate prize. Simple as that.

If Bucks can’t win it next year, and we can’t get Clarkson, we have to look to a Sam Mitchell or Luke Hodge to be the next coach of Collingwood.

It’s professional sport. It’s about winning cups. It’s not about being loyal to the nice guys that always end up the brides maid.

FROM YOUR post on the Buckley Mega Thread - Post #399 page 16 on April 13th 2018

"With our draw, a top 4 and a preliminary final is a pass mark"


Buckley has surpassed what you purposely made virtually an impossible bench mark at the time, AND you're still whinging.

Seriously sport get a grip!!!!!!!!!

 

[neilk]

They kicked 6 goals to our 2 goals in time on. Something that has killed us all year - red time goals.

I made it 4-0, but same margin. I assumed anything after the 25th minute is time-on, but could be wrong.

 

[Pie_fan92]

Know the feeling mate. I'm 24 myself and our GF records are exactly the same.

For some reason, this loss hurts more than the others I've seen in my lifetime

It truly is a horrible feeling. I was devo after 02 & 03 but I thought we would be right. I was at the 2010 GF (the draw), as I live in Brisbane I couldn't afford to stay another week so I missed the replay. I was at 2011, it sucked but knowing we won the year before softened the blow. This year, I cried my eyes out. I am a grown ass man and I cried, it is the only time I have cried after a game of football.

 

[TTRRAAVVIISS]

Welcome - Back

Somehow the first few paragraphs of your post were missed but I have added them below.

Well done to Bucks and the team. I hugely underestimated Bucks, and he should be congratulated, and I feel very disappointed and ashamed of my disrespectful, abusive, and unfairly critical posting earlier in the year.

Bucks I'm very sorry.

The fact that you surpassed my absurd pass mark that I insisted was necessary for a successful year ie reaching the Prelim. further reinforces how I completely underestimated your capacity as a coach, and that I really don't understand the game as well as I think.

I purposely established this unrealistic pass mark knowing it was impossible to achieve, so that I could continue the barrage against you at the end of the season. I had absolutely no expectation whatever that it could be achieved let alone surpassed, and now, I have to admit you have comprehensively extinguished my obsession for your sacking, with your outstanding Coaching performance in 2018.

It is my intention to start a new thread suggestin its time for your to get what you deserve - an immediate contract extension.

And for the record, I said a pass mark after the Crows win was a top 4 finish and a decent coach gets us a cup.

A pass mark is the bare minimum expectation. It’s 51%. I never underestimated the playing group. I never blamed Hine or made excuses about the list or injuries - because I’ve always thought the list was capable of a flag. And the list with the quality midfield we have on paper should be top 4 year after year. It’s the bare minimum.

Look I’m not gonna get into a pissing contest about me being right about the Buckley game style not holding up when it matters. It’s pretty evident it didn’t hold up on the biggest stage vs an above average eagles side.

There are no prizes for 2nd place. In professional sport it’s about the winners. Our 16th piece of silverware is on hold for at least another year. You can settle for “so close so proud” all you want. Just as I can say “it’s not good enough”.

As of today though, Buckley is 7 years and no flag. It’s just not good enough

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Doesn't have a plot - has an agenda.

Not everyone here is really a Collingwood supporter.

 

[TKiL]

They kicked 6 goals to our 2 goals in time on. Something that has killed us all year - red time goals.

Think it was the 2002 GF when Brisbane (ie Akermanis) kicked a heap in time on in diff quarters

 

[No SPIN]

And for the record, I said a pass mark after the Crows win was a top 4 finish and a decent coach gets us a cup.

A pass mark is the bare minimum expectation. It’s 51%. I never underestimated the playing group. I never blamed Hine or made excuses about the list or injuries - because I’ve always thought the list was capable of a flag. And the list with the quality midfield we have on paper should be top 4 year after year. It’s the bare minimum.

Look I’m not gonna get into a pissing contest about me being right about the Buckley game style not holding up when it matters. It’s pretty evident it didn’t hold up on the biggest stage vs an above average eagles side.

There are no prizes for 2nd place. In professional sport it’s about the winners. Our 16th piece of silverware is on hold for at least another year. You can settle for “so close so proud” all you want. Just as I can say “it’s not good enough”.

As of today though, Buckley is 7 years and no flag. It’s just not good enough

I have quoted your exact words from April 13th 2018, above in my post #1451 - you were wrong even by your own benchmark which Buckley surpassed.

Its that simple.

Instead of being mature enough to acknowledge the achievement above you want to again change the goal posts.

My work is done here in proving that your agenda has never been about the improvement of the club, but just a pathological vendetta against Buckley.

You've been "tarred and feathered" my dear Trraavviiss.

 

[Trickster]

You really need to look back at the personnel we had during many of those GF years Otto - probably as much as 1/3 of those sides simply shouldn't have made the GF because they were simply not good enough - exactly the same as this year.

We made a GF at least a year too early with this list.

The issue that doesn’t sit well with your argument is that in each GF we’ve lost since 1960, we’ve been in winning positions in all but 3 (60, 80, 2003). So the fact we may have (or may not have had) inferior lists doesn’t wash with me. That is 9 GFs that we were in winnable positions, some ridiculously dominant, that were all lost. What GFs also don’t highlight is that in 1969 and 1973 we finished top only to bow out in straight sets and not even make the GF. So it’s great that we get to so many GFs but what I’d hope is for a 50% ratio when we’re there not 2-2-12. I suspect that’s what a lot of people are frustrated with. Granted that this team is entirely independent of all other losses but as supporters the loss hurts no matter how noble. I’m not jumping off the bandwagon or apportioning blame just lamenting with devastation that we can’t somehow turn more of these winning positions in GFs into wins.

 

[Harry Balzac]

So, Lethal and Walls have now both chimed in on the Rioli vs Maynard controversy saying it should have been a free to Maynard.

Well, not a thing we can do about it unfortunately.

However, maybe the boys could get together and make a Rioli rule (similar to the Kennet curse). Where they make a pact that no matter what, the Eagles shall never again win another game vs Collingwood as long as they take to the park.

Time for redemption.

Save your breath...the AFL got the result they wanted in a National Comp (especially since interstate teams lost in both the previous two Grand Finals).

The laws are so "grey" and subject to "interpretation" that a blocking call on Maynard could have been "correctly argued", just as surely as the non-call could be correctly argued by the AFL (and umpiring fraternity).

How Cox can be blocked from going for the ball virtually all first half, and they have a free paid against him for a "push" on Barrass when Cox ended up being at the very drop of the ball he was contesting is a pure and simple demonstration of how inconsistency is not only tolerated, but almost protected!

 

[TKiL]

The issue that doesn’t sit well with your argument is that in each GF we’ve lost since 1960, we’ve been in winning positions in all but 3 (60, 80, 2003). So the fact we may have (or may not have had) inferior lists doesn’t wash with me. That is 9 GFs that we were in winnable positions, some ridiculously dominant, that were all lost. What GFs also don’t highlight is that in 1969 and 1973 we finished top only to bow out in straight sets and not even make the GF. So it’s great that we get to so many GFs but what I’d hope is for a 50% ratio when we’re there not 2-2-12. I suspect that’s what a lot of people are frustrated with. Granted that this team is entirely independent of all other losses but as supporters the loss hurts no matter how noble. I’m not jumping off the bandwagon or apportioning blame just lamenting with devastation that we can’t somehow turn more of these winning positions in GFs into wins.

Doesn't wash with me either having seen them all - statistically that losing ratio in GFs is significant - I ain't jumping off the Pies but does the Club need to look long and hard into its soul / eyes /DNA to see whether it is steely enough? Does it somewhere, subconsciously say within its own walls - "we did well to get there". I get the love but does the love get us Flags?

GFs ain't the Olympics - there's no silver medal - only the heavy weight of despair.

 

[Trickster]

Doesn't wash with me either having seen them all - statistically that losing ratio in GFs is significant - I ain't jumping off the Pies but does the Club need to look long and hard into its soul / eyes /DNA to see whether it is steely enough? Does it somewhere, subconsciously say within its own walls - "we did well to get there". I get the love but does the love get us Flags?

GFs ain't the Olympics - there's no silver medal - only the heavy weight of despair.

I haven’t seen them all and the knowledge in how we lost hurts so I commend your resilience. The difficult part is that this is independent to all those others as different players coaches etc but to us supporters it’s that same hollow feeling which makes it shattering.

 

[TKiL]

I haven’t seen them all and the knowledge in how we lost hurts so I commend your resilience. The difficult part is that this is independent to all those others as different players coaches etc but to us supporters it’s that same hollow feeling which makes it shattering.

Yes it is independent but the "Club ethos" is a common factor - the culture -vague as that sounds - there is a commonality here

 

[Good_Old]

I didn't even realise these posters went missing during the year, funny that they've reared their ugly heads again.

 

[TKiL]

I didn't even realise these posters went missing during the year, funny that they've reared their ugly heads again.

?

 

[Good_Old]

?

?

 

[TKiL]

?

Got it

 

[Kappa]

I can finish the sentence. Once you're 5 goals up...with 5-10 minutes to play in the first quarter your opponent still has over 3 quarters of football in which to settle their nerves and very, very gradually reel in what is really a modest lead in context of a four-quarter footy game.

It can happen, often does, and it happened on Saturday.

5 Goals up in a game where both teams only scored 11 for the match is a gigantic lead, there's no argument about that.

 

[JB1975]

5 Goals up in a game where both teams only scored 11 for the match is a gigantic lead, there's no argument about that.

Yes, there is an argument about that. A 5-goal lead with over 3 quarters of football to play in a modern game of football in dry conditions is far from gigantic, and very gettable...unfortunately.

Besides the fact that it was Collingwood and we were playing a GF, I rarely think that 5 goals is a 'safe' margin in a game of football these days, not even in the last quarter. I think it was Leigh Matthews who proposed a rule of thumb: if there are as many minutes left in a game as goals required, then the leading margin is far from safe.

5 goals in modern footy is a blink of an eye, which after all is the amount of time it took us to gain that lead in the first place.

 

[BPikkers]

You out your mind if you think, getting Nick Maxwell and Longmuire to fix all the ills of this club deserves an extension. The guy is 0-3 in grand finals as a player and coach. And if you wanna be a smart arse and claim his role as an assistant in 2010/11, he’s 1-4-1.

Despite this lovefest for Bucks, and a great effort on Saturday, you can’t hide from the fact we choked when it mattered. I don’t care if Bucks is “all class”. How about you do what your paid for; win the cup.

What is it, 2 premierships from 14 grand finals since 1958? It’s not bloody good enough. It’s professional sport. The club even has “the premiership is a cakewalk” in the theme songs. We aren’t meant to be coming second.

Home deck, vs a weagles side that is hardly a powerhouse. This wasn’t the lions of 02/03 or cats 07 to 11 or hawks of 2012 to 2015.

Ripe for the picking, and when it mattered we couldn’t keep the ball off the eagles for 3 mins. We couldn’t keep the ball in our fwd half for 3 mins. We didn’t play the percentages and play the boundary line and make it stoppage after stoppage after stoppage. And in the end, Sheed is left all alone on the HFF. This isn’t bad luck. It’s bad planning.

3 wins and 10 losses since 2014 where the winning margin is 6 or less points. This loss was not bad luck, or the bounce of the ball. Out coached, and the game plan failed to stand up for 4 qtrs, yet again.

Taking away the great first 20 minutes of the first quarter, we were beaten 11.11-77 to 6.7-37. That is unacceptable. That is a choke job no matter how you spin it. 40 point turnaround with 1:38 left on the clock in the 1st qtr.

You can not have 40 point turnarounds in a Grand Final. If this was a Ross Lyon coach side, or anyone else for that matter, we’d be calling it what it is. A piss poor gameplan that over uses the ball and that’s only sustainable under pressure for 1 quarter in a GF.

At least in 1970, we can blame poor goal kicking and McKenna getting concussion. You cant seriously keep feeding the ego of Buckley with the “oh so brave so close bravo”. He failed to take the ultimate prize. Simple as that.

If Bucks can’t win it next year, and we can’t get Clarkson, we have to look to a Sam Mitchell or Luke Hodge to be the next coach of Collingwood.

It’s professional sport. It’s about winning cups. It’s not about being loyal to the nice guys that always end up the brides maid.

Eagles may not be a powerhouse, however, you have rocks in your head if you think the team that took the field on Saturday is anywhere near a powerhouse.

 

[No SPIN]

Yes it is independent but the "Club ethos" is a common factor - the culture -vague as that sounds - there is a commonality here

The “club ethos” is not the same.
Let’s take the Club Presidents who have led the club for 100 years - what possible ethos that explains our failure could they possibly share, given the dramatic societal changes over that span of time.

In looking for an explanations it would only be found in quantitative analysis eg average age, experience, etc. compared to the premiers. That data is the only way of establishing a true and verifiable correlation that MAY explain failure. All other qualitative assessments such as “ethos” that are unquantifiable offer little insight IMO.

 

[Trickster]

I didn't even realise these posters went missing during the year, funny that they've reared their ugly heads again.

I didn’t realise there were quotas imposed these days on the number, frequency and timing of posts. Feel free to outline what exact ugliness has reared its head other than passionate supporters who don’t live on social media jumping on after a grand final.

 

[Trickster]

The “club ethos” is not the same.
Let’s take the Club Presidents who have led the club for 100 years - what possible ethos that explains our failure could they possibly share, given the dramatic societal changes over that span of time.

In looking for an explanations it would only be found in quantitative analysis eg average age, experience, etc. compared to the premiers. That data is the only way of establishing a true and verifiable correlation that MAY explain failure. All other qualitative assessments such as “ethos” that are unquantifiable offer little insight IMO.

Agree on quantitative factors but don’t discount the qualitative components particularly given they say the game is played up top. Not so much for this crew but think about the 70s/80s teams that kept falling short and even to a smaller scale goal-kicking yips, once it starts playing on the mind and becomes ingrained it becomes a burden and has an impact.

 

[pie9010]

Know the feeling mate. I'm 24 myself and our GF records are exactly the same.

For some reason, this loss hurts more than the others I've seen in my lifetime

I know, still hurts.

The following keeps circling in my mind.

1st qtr shinned goal.

1st qtr eagles goal from 2 free kicks. qtr time score didn't do us justice.

Bs treloar deliberate (think they only kicked a point luckily),

Runner incedent (no harsh feelings but how unlucky)

Peppering goals out our end with 3m to go,

Maynard block.

I know they domimated for so long and missed shots but still,

Maybe it's just me, struggled with 2002, struggled to get past rocca non goal and 2 goal turn around when tarrant was mauled at end then lynch was paid a bs free.

2007 hurt nearly as much, similarly to 2002 and 2018, little expectations, but practially missed out on premiership by 5pts (comtrolled 95% of prelim)

This hurts more for some reason.

Thank f the ball bounced the right way at end of first 2010 1st gf, imagine if that went pear shaped after that year!!

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