So the record is set straight re Packer's Yacht and Katich/Clarke

[courtjester]

If cricket was my livelihood and I played for Australia and we'd just pulled off our biggest win in ages, then yes I'd be pissed off with the one who couldn't get away quick enough. Five hours? Things are only just starting.

I think things are being blown out of proportion. A test win is great, but these guys had won plenty of tests together over the years. There was nothing more important about this one than any other that meant guys needed to stay for hours after if they didnt want to...

 

[Father Jack]

I think things are being blown out of proportion. A test win is great, but these guys had won plenty of tests together over the years. There was nothing more important about this one than any other that meant guys needed to stay for hours after if they didnt want to...

Ponting thinks different.

 

[The Passenger]

I think things are being blown out of proportion. A test win is great, but these guys had won plenty of tests together over the years. There was nothing more important about this one than any other that meant guys needed to stay for hours after if they didnt want to...

there's your answer. clarke didn't want to stay.

when people don't want to stay and hang around their team mates, they tend to find it harder to fit into the team environment. this is the case at all sporting clubs - amateur or professional.

from the sounds of it, clarke was becoming more and more distanced from his team mates during this period.

i love it how some one through out "irrational hate" when people can just equally throw out "irrational love" others are showing. all because he happens to be able to score runs, so i would suggest the "love" is a lot more irrational than the "hate". we are able to see that beyond the run scoring and the fact he has saved our ass on several occasions in the last 24 months, he is a very divisive and self absorbed person.

i'm sounding like a record, but how many squabbles in australian cricket do you hear not involving clarke? very few. almost all of them involve clarke - with ponting, hussey, katich, watson, symonds etc... surely that must be saying something?

it's the same as warney when he was around. he was the common denominator in a quite a number of infighting although he got away with it a lot more because 1) the team was still winning, 2) he is more the larrikan than pretty boy (how much that has changed!!!) and 3) clarke might be a great cricketer, but he is not even near warne's level.

 

[sherb]

Organisations that are successful also know the value of putting the team above the individual. Of course you don't go out and humiliate team members in public like with the ridiculous homework debacle, but you certainly don't cut short celebrations because of one bloke who wants out at the soonest opportunity.

The soonest opportunity was when the game finished. Is this when Clarke left?

And why should celebrations be cut short because one bloke leaves? Can't the remainder keep celebrating?

This is the most absurd, childish thing I have read about in ages. Are we talking about Australian cricketers or two year olds here?

 

[sherb]

when people don't want to stay and hang around their team mates, they tend to find it harder to fit into the team environment. this is the case at all sporting clubs - amateur or professional.

With respect, that's just not true.

I've played plenty of team sport and there were always people who - for whatever reason - didn't socialize after the game. Or there were ones who did so for a short period of time only.

This didn't make it harder for them to fit into the team environment at all. On the contrary, the majority were mature enough to understand that some people were different, or had other priorities, or just weren't comfortable group socializers.

There are plenty of people who I've played sport with over the years who would fall into this category. And they still good team people and were still highly respected.

 

[The Passenger]

sherb sorry should have made it clearer - I don't mean they aren't team players on the field. Was talking entirely off field. If someone doesn't want to be a part of the off-field stuff, then on the rare occasions they do try and get involved they are often seen as an outsider.

By the sounds of Ponting's article Clarke became very withdrawn from the off field stuff. And if that is the case then you could probably see why a few people would be miffed at him organising such things. Say at your club there is a bloke who only comes out 2 or 3 times a year after matches but decides that he is going to dictate where and what happens on those night, would you not find that a little off putting?

 

[Tyberious Funk]

i'm sounding like a record, but how many squabbles in australian cricket do you hear not involving clarke? very few. almost all of them involve clarke - with ponting, hussey, katich, watson, symonds etc... surely that must be saying something?

Yeah, it says there are some prima donnas in the team that should get over themselves. If Katich couldn't accept that Clarke wanted to spend time with his missus after already celebrating with the team for five hours, what does that say about his level of tolerance? Not everyone likes to get shitfaced with the boys and they shouldn't be ostracized for that.

It also says something that some of these guys can't seem to deal with their issues without whinging to the press. Clarke on the other hand (to the best of my knowledge), has been an absolute professional, despite some of the mud that has been slung at him. He's kept any personal opinions to himself, and always publicly supported his team mates. Even after being strangled by Katich (which Kat never apologised for), Clarke remained relatively supportive of the guy. Katich on the other hand had a good whinge to the media.

 

[King Elvis]

Should've organised the team activity with the knowledge of the team, or at least the Captain, then.

Should've approached the guys involved himself, instead of sending the Team Manager over to pester people on his behalf.


And Clarke supportive of Katich? He ended his career. Kat also apparently tried to apologise to him repeatedly, but Clarke refused to take his calls.

He had a part to play in the end of Symond's, and he's tried to end Watsons.

He might not kick up a fuss in public, but it doesn't seem like a wise move to get on his bad side.

They should have clearly stated before the celebrations that at 11pm we're all going to head off. If punter wasn't on board then Pup shouldn't have been booking anything.

This, so Clarke has twice organised team functions, which go against the normal traditions, without telling anyone, and which the majority of the team didn't want to be involved in?

Very selfless of him.

After all these years of smoke and whispers there it was in black and white – subtle, but undeniableconfirmationPonting wanted more from Clarke as a vice-captain than he was prepared to give.
One of the reasons Clarke is not popular with many of the senior players from Ponting’s era is that they took this issue even more personally than Ponting did. They knew Ponting was running a side in decline and they wanted him to be supported by a dynamic vice-captain.

They don’t say it publicly but many felt the retirement of Adam Gilchrist was one of the most underrated events in recent Australian cricket history.
Gilchrist was a vibrant vice-captain who always had his captain’s back. Whether it be reminding Ponting to mention someone in a speech or having a drink with an out-of-form teammate, Gilchrist was a mature, streetwise, sensitive deputy who buzzed around behind the scenes.

Clarke is a very good batsman and probably a great guy one on one, but some players don't fit the team culture - that doesn't mean they should be excluded from it, but making them the Captain seems like an odd move.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-robert-craddock/story-fni2utai-1226739260984

 

[eth-dog]

Wow, some of the hate for Clarke on here is completely irrational. I don't get how a bloke who wants to surprise his mates with dinner reservations and asked to round it up so that they get there on time, then get's strangled can be painted as the bad guy. But no, he shouldn't have surprised his team mates, that's not allowed. Can't try to build bridges between the blokes who he was getting a negative vibe from .

 

[Mateyman]

Should've organised the team activity with the knowledge of the team, or at least the Captain, then.

Should've approached the guys involved himself, instead of sending the Team Manager over to pester people on his behalf.


And Clarke supportive of Katich? He ended his career. Kat also apparently tried to apologise to him repeatedly, but Clarke refused to take his calls.

He had a part to play in the end of Symond's, and he's tried to end Watsons.

He might not kick up a fuss in public, but it doesn't seem like a wise move to get on his bad side.




This, so Clarke has twice organised team functions, which go against the normal traditions, without telling anyone, and which the majority of the team didn't want to be involved in?

Very selfless of him.



Clarke is a very good batsman and probably a great guy one on one, but some players don't fit the team culture - that doesn't mean they should be excluded from it, but making them the Captain seems like an odd move.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-robert-craddock/story-fni2utai-1226739260984

But seriously, who else is/was there?

 

[The_Reaper]

But seriously, who else is/was there?

Hussey was the only other possible option but in that case why replace Ponting?

Clarke is the only option. Rogers could fill in if Clarke got injured now but he won't be around for much longer.

 

[Father Jack]

Wow, some of the hate for Clarke on here is completely irrational. I don't get how a bloke who wants to surprise his mates with dinner reservations and asked to round it up so that they get there on time, then get's strangled can be painted as the bad guy. But no, he shouldn't have surprised his team mates, that's not allowed. Can't try to build bridges between the blokes who he was getting a negative vibe from .

Seems like he has very, very limited perception of what other people think then. Not a good quality in a captain.

 

[courtjester]

there's your answer. clarke didn't want to stay.

.

Seriously? 11pm? How long should he stay in your opinion? Till 3am? 4am?

Anyway, I don't care enough anymore, but I really can't see why 11pm isn't a reasonable time to leave.

 

[The Passenger]

Seriously? 11pm? How long should he stay in your opinion? Till 3am? 4am?

Anyway, I don't care enough anymore, but I really can't see why 11pm isn't a reasonable time to leave.

Well I can only relate to my experience with my football teammates and if it was me, I would've stayed to the bitter end because I like hanging around my team mates. Especially with the game being the final test of the summer and the final match of a 100-game team mate.

 

[courtjester]

Not that our opinions matter too much, but in my experience some guys leave the rooms at 7pm, 8pm, 9pm after cricket. Some guys are still there at 2am. Doesn't really matter either way to anyone.

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

But seriously, who else is/was there?

The issue has always been that CA anointed Clarke too early and thus rooted any possible alternative succession planning.

 

[The_Reaper]

The issue has always been that CA anointed Clarke too early and thus rooted any possible alternative succession planning.

Who else was in the team and at the right age anyway?

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

Who else was in the team and at the right age anyway?

Any number of blokes could have been introduced at 6 in the batting order just like pup and ponting were. There were/are plenty of candidates.

 

[NSWCROW]

what about setting the record straight on the clarke/symonds/Bingle thing ??

 

[Doodlesweaver]

That stuff about Gilchrist is unfair on Clarke. They are very different personalities and they are from different eras to some extent. How spoilt would a skipper be having Adam Gilchrist as his vc?

It's like comparing Haddin with Gilly, what is the point?

Not that I won't be happy to see that back of Haddin but that's based on his keeping.

 

[lewigie]

Well I can only relate to my experience with my football teammates and if it was me, I would've stayed to the bitter end because I like hanging around my team mates. Especially with the game being the final test of the summer and the final match of a 100-game team mate.

He had reservations for the whole team. He wanted to kick on with his team mates after the game, and it was 11pm at the time, and they were all still at the change rooms.

 

[the_interloper]

what about setting the record straight on the clarke/symonds/Bingle thing ??

 

[NSWCROW]

^^

 

[Mateyman]

Any number of blokes could have been introduced at 6 in the batting order just like pup and ponting were. There were/are plenty of candidates.

Yeah, if any spud batted at 6 they would get good after a while even with no talent I'm sure

 

[King Elvis]

He had reservations for the whole team. He wanted to kick on with his team mates after the game, and it was 11pm at the time, and they were all still at the change rooms.

Reservations for the entire team, which he didn't tell them about, or mention to the Captain, and which no one else wanted to do.

When I organise things with friends, I don't make plans which are the opposite of what they actually want to do.