Preview So where do we finish from here?

[Batty123]

Ed sums it all up for me pretty much.

I am not saying it's a fact that there is internal conflict at the club but it certainly seems like it to me. Why would we try in 2011 if we had that so called premiership hangover some people are referring to as the reason for us dropping intensity and not trying. We were even better in 2011 than we were in 2010 IMO but since 2012 all I see is the younger blokes trying and the older blokes just walking around waiting for it too all happen. That's how a poor club culture starts and then it's difficult to change it.

If the older players don't like Buckley because he is hard on them then they go. They are grown men who should be treated like grown men not like bloody children. I don't care how good they have been in the past, I do not want people at the football club I support who are not going to put in effort and are not going to be good role models for our young blokes.

I just hope there is nothing wrong internally and it's a lazy period the players are going through but I doubt it.

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' down at the Westpac center. We have far too many good people down there for that to go unnoticed and unactioned. I still think its the adjustment / transition from Mick that is hurting us 5-10% in terms of performance. In the face of significant injuries you really do need your experienced players to display amazing, passion, courage and vigour to lead the club forward. Unfortunately most of these guys spent 5-6+ years under Mick and I'm not sure they will be able to match the output they found for him for under any other coach. That's not a swipe at them or Buckley - though many posters on here are choosing to make themselves feel better by taking a swipe at either or both - their current output is just an expression of human nature. They were amazingly close to Mick, they bled for him and whilst we expect high paid professional athletes to simply flick a switch and turn it on for another coach its a much tougher process in reality. Nor is it a condemnation of Buckley - you only need to look at the team first culture and attitude displayed by blokes at the club 3-4 years (I'm including the time Bucks spend as an assistant) - Seedsman, Elliott, Williams, Sinclair, Kennedy and all the rookies - whether you like them as players or not you could not question the level of committment they've displayed this year, often in the face of significant injuries and questionable senior support.

At the end of the year there will be retirements, delistings and tradings and Bucks will start next year with more blokes in his camp who don't have a connection to Mick. He'll start with more guys on board. The current transition issues we are experiencing occur at every club when you change coach, this is the only time however, when its happened with a team at the peak of its powers and a coach who didn't want to go....inevitably there are teething problems in any transition of coaching but supporters are usually supportive because a) the team has been rubbish on field b) the players are useless and c) the coach was past it or had lost it. None of these apply to us in this instance - hence the frustration and lack of patience with performance but the reality remains that its a process of change we have to go through like any other club that changes coaches

 

[Fruit]

While I'd prefer to finish top 2 and be in the running to earn a rest and guaranteed home finals it may not work out too bad this year finishing 6th-8th. If we can avoid playing a final in WA against Freo then I think we could go into the finals as good a chance as anyone. By the time finals time comes around Beams, Young, Goldsack, Krakouer etc will have played possibly 6-8 games straight and may just be fit enough to have a real impact. With some luck we could be playing one of Richmond, Port or Carlton in the first week which shouldn't be too frightening and then meet one of the losing finalists in the following week with some momentum.

 

[Copeland]

What a flipping great post.

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' down at the Westpac center. We have far too many good people down there for that to go unnoticed and unactioned. I still think its the adjustment / transition from Mick that is hurting us 5-10% in terms of performance. In the face of significant injuries you really do need your experienced players to display amazing, passion, courage and vigour to lead the club forward. Unfortunately most of these guys spent 5-6+ years under Mick and I'm not sure they will be able to match the output they found for him for under any other coach. That's not a swipe at them or Buckley - though many posters on here are choosing to make themselves feel better by taking a swipe at either or both - their current output is just an expression of human nature. They were amazingly close to Mick, they bled for him and whilst we expect high paid professional athletes to simply flick a switch and turn it on for another coach its a much tougher process in reality. Nor is it a condemnation of Buckley - you only need to look at the team first culture and attitude displayed by blokes at the club 3-4 years (I'm including the time Bucks spend as an assistant) - Seedsman, Elliott, Williams, Sinclair, Kennedy and all the rookies - whether you like them as players or not you could not question the level of committment they've displayed this year, often in the face of significant injuries and questionable senior support.

At the end of the year there will be retirements, delistings and tradings and Bucks will start next year with more blokes in his camp who don't have a connection to Mick. He'll start with more guys on board. The current transition issues we are experiencing occur at every club when you change coach, this is the only time however, when its happened with a team at the peak of its powers and a coach who didn't want to go....inevitably there are teething problems in any transition of coaching but supporters are usually supportive because a) the team has been rubbish on field b) the players are useless and c) the coach was past it or had lost it. None of these apply to us in this instance - hence the frustration and lack of patience with performance but the reality remains that its a process of change we have to go through like any other club that changes coaches

 

[Copeland]

While I'd prefer to finish top 2 and be in the running to earn a rest and guaranteed home finals it may not work out too bad this year finishing 6th-8th. If we can avoid playing a final in WA against Freo then I think we could go into the finals as good a chance as anyone. By the time finals time comes around Beams, Young, Goldsack, Krakouer etc will have played possibly 6-8 games straight and may just be fit enough to have a real impact. With some luck we could be playing one of Richmond, Port or Carlton in the first week which shouldn't be too frightening and then meet one of the losing finalists in the following week with some momentum.

Ya reckon?

 

[Old Spice]

Sometimes you just have a bad year after being at the top for so long.

Looking at the 2003 Grand Final side, the only player from that side who didn't play at the Pies in 2004 was Scotland who went to Carlton. Rocca who missed out in 2003 through suspension and Lockyer with an ACL were obviously also in the 2004 squad.

2003 Grand Final team

Ben Johnson, Shane Wakelin, James Clement,
Matthew Lokan, Simon Prestigiacomo, Richard Cole
Brodie Holland, Nathan Buckley, Ryan Lonie
Shane O'Bree, Jason Cloke, Scott Burns
Ben Kinnear, Tristen Walker, Chris Tarrant
Josh Fraser, Shane Woewodin, Paul Licuria

Alan Didak, Heath Scotland, Rhyce Shaw, Leon Davis

Had the squad suddenly turned against Mick in 2004?

No, they just had a bad year, in fact two, which saw us drop to 13 and 15. The list was revitalised, which is exactly what Buckley is doing now. Don't slit your wrists.

 

[Hva sher a]

What a shit place to finish.

Thats the kind of finishes that quickly see you become mid of the table team.

Not high enough to do any finals dmg and not low enough to get a decent draft pick.

Maybe the Swans should take your advice.
I prefer putting some finals game time into our kids, even if it's about letting them understand how painful it is to lose a final. And actually playing in the intensity of finals can only turbocharge their development

A low draft pick doesn't guarantee you success anyway. The history of the draft is littered with too many examples of top tenners that don't justify their ranking. It's all about development and I'd back our resources most times.

Although the Swans were minor finals players between 2007 and 2011, they got some good finals game time into a lot of their list.

 

[loki04]

Maybe the Swans should take your advice.
I prefer putting some finals game time into our kids, even if it's about letting them understand how painful it is to lose a final. And actually playing in the intensity of finals can only turbocharge their development

A low draft pick doesn't guarantee you success anyway. The history of the draft is littered with too many examples of top tenners that don't justify their ranking. It's all about development and I'd back our resources most times.

Although the Swans were minor finals players between 2007 and 2011, they got some good finals game time into a lot of their list.

There are far more teams who get stuck in the mid bracket then not Swans are an exception who have advantages that Vic based sides don't.

I'd rather get another Scott Pendlebury then finish 6th and get spanked.

Plenty on our list have finals experience.

 

[Adz]

Missing the 8 could be the kick up the backside they need.

 

[Old Spice]

Play the kids where a decision is 50/50 or even 60/40. We must get games into the next generation and see where that lands us. We're not going to win the flag, so bridge the gulf now before our older players disappear.

And this is not tanking btw, it is regenerating our list by getting games in. No point playing older players with not much more output to be gained. We must start steeling our youth.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

I really see us really making a run at it in 2015 not 2014. By then we'll have a good 20-40 games into players like Kennedy, Martin, Mooney, Grundy and Witts. And we'll have even more games into players like Elliot, Keefe, Seedsman, Fasolo etc...

Cloke, Reid, Heater, Brown, Beams, Young, Steele and Pendles will still be doing their thing, maybe even Ball and Harry.

I see a lot of potential in some of our newer/younger players and a lot of our established players will still be around for awhile.

This year might have been a little bit of a let down but with the debutantes we've had and the potential they've shown, I think the next 2-3 years looks bright.

 

[Jordan Wallace]

Don't worry guys, I did the ladder predictor, we finish first!

 

[larrikan]

Hopefully we finish fifth at the end of h&a season. Essendon lose points. Elevating us to forth. Woohoo.