Society and Culture BF style

[Trewth]

Like Arintaraj said last page (a very good post), he cops out pretty hard with "I agree with a lot of what you are saying...".

"I'm the host of a show that tries to be impartial but is actually very targeted so I'll try to sound as unbiased as possible by pointing out the only positive I can find before giving you your fair criticism to minimise the blowback"

And the blowback he's copped about the bit of criticism he gave Pauline has been brutal if you read the comments on Facebook (I know it's Facebook but still its indicative).

This has just made me want a pres with no public profile because the ones that do can't win.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I'll put it another way. 95% of people in Australia didn't vote for One Nation. Also, the senate doesn't work on a two party preferred system, it's a proportional system.

They're an extremist minority by literal mathematical definition. Its inarguable.

You are ignoring the fact a senate with no majority directly results in small parties being literal kingmakers. You are also ignoring the fact that Hanson's surge in popularity and votes suggests there are millions more who may share her views (or part thereof) but didn't vote for her in this case. Such a violent swing in One Nation's direction suggests there are millions who are easily seduced by her racist rhetoric, and many millions more who could swing to One Nation at the drop of a terrorist attack.

 

[Dylan8]

This has just made me want a pres with no public profile because the ones that do can't win.

They can win by not legitimising a racist...

People over on her side of the fence talk about how they "don't speak up in fear of being called a racist" but it's pretty piss weak if people are watering down their criticism of her and her supporters' clearly racist ideals in fear of blowback from a tiny minority.

 

[tribey]

One of their senators is a climate change denying conspiracy theorist who received 77 below the line votes. Make of that what you will.

Dat maiden speech. And we sit here mocking Dubya and Trump.

 

[ScooterBrother]

You are ignoring the fact a senate with no majority directly results in small parties being literal kingmakers.

Ay? I'm not ignoring it at all. What balance of power she has is irrelevant to whether or not she represents the Australian people. Which is what the original discourse was about. She absolutely holds a lot of power now, very sadly.

You are also ignoring the fact that Hanson's surge in popularity and votes suggests there are millions more who may share her views (or part thereof) but didn't vote for her in this case. Such a violent swing in One Nation's direction suggests there are millions who are easily seduced by her racist rhetoric, and many millions more who could swing to One Nation at the drop of a terrorist attack.

Nick Xenophon got massive surges too. The Greens made massive strides in inner Vic. What we saw was a move away from the major parties, not necessarily a move in support of Hanson or OneNation.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You are ignoring the fact a senate with no majority directly results in small parties being literal kingmakers. You are also ignoring the fact that Hanson's surge in popularity and votes suggests there are millions more who may share her views (or part thereof) but didn't vote for her in this case. Such a violent swing in One Nation's direction suggests there are millions who are easily seduced by her racist rhetoric, and many millions more who could swing to One Nation at the drop of a terrorist attack.

The pissed of part of Qld who are forced to vote switched from Clive Palmer to Pauline Hanson. Thats how I interpret ON's vote. And like Clive she picked up pissed off with status quo voters outside of Qld.

 

[Trewth]

They can win by not legitimising a racist...

People over on her side of the fence talk about how they "don't speak up in fear of being called a racist" but it's pretty piss weak if people are watering down their criticism of her and her supporters' clearly racist ideals in fear of blowback from a tiny minority.

Giving someone both barrels publicly without the need to water it down is a pretty neat ideal when it doesn't jeopardise your job and public profile. If you think he has no excuse that's fine, I just don't see it as a realistic possibility for him. I see him doing everything he can whilst being between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Doctor Feel]

They can win by not legitimising a racist...

People over on her side of the fence talk about how they "don't speak up in fear of being called a racist" but it's pretty piss weak if people are watering down their criticism of her and her supporters' clearly racist ideals in fear of blowback from a tiny minority.

That's hypocritical though. You are saying that people on the left side should have the ability to call out the right without fearing reprisal while the right shouldn't be able to voice their opinions at all OR should live in fear of a backlash. That sounds a lot like oppression to me. History shows that sort of oppression just results in festering wounds and underground groups.

 

[ScooterBrother]

The pissed of part of Qld who are forced to vote switched from Clive Palmer to Pauline Hanson. Thats how I interpret ON's vote. And like Clive she picked up pissed off with status quo voters outside of Qld.

Correct!

 

[Doctor Feel]

Ay? I'm not ignoring it at all. What balance of power she has is irrelevant to whether or not she represents the Australian people. Which is what the original discourse was about. She absolutely holds a lot of power now, very sadly.


Nick Xenophon got massive surges too. The Greens made massive strides in inner Vic. What we saw was a move away from the major parties, not necessarily a move in support of Hanson or OneNation.

Therefore, if 1.1 million votes for her secures her a number of senate seats and puts her into that position of power - 4.5% is not an insignificant vote count. It's pretty straight forward.

 

[ScooterBrother]

That's hypocritical though. You are saying that people on the left side should have the ability to call out the right without fearing reprisal while the right shouldn't be able to voice their opinions at all OR should live in fear of a backlash. That sounds a lot like oppression to me. History shows that sort of oppression just results in festering wounds and underground groups.

Xenophobia isn't a right wing tenet. Her views and statements go beyond traditional political boxing.

They are, in fact, unconstitutional and IMO illegal.

 

[Dylan8]

That's hypocritical though. You are saying that people on the left side should have the ability to call out the right without fearing reprisal while the right shouldn't be able to voice their opinions at all OR should live in fear of a backlash. That sounds a lot like oppression to me. History shows that sort of oppression just results in festering wounds and underground groups.

Not really though. Because more centrist would be "let's not deport all of the innocent people from one social group" and the extremist view is "let's deport all of the innocent people from one social group".

The extremist views should expect backlash. Centrist, reasonable positions such as denouncing a person whose only political platform for their entire career is "cast out this minority" shouldn't fear backlash. It's a sign of where we're at, I guess.

Giving someone both barrels publicly without the need to water it down is a pretty neat ideal when it doesn't jeopardise your job and public profile. If you think he has no excuse that's fine, I just don't see it as a realistic possibility for him. I see him doing everything he can whilst being between a rock and a hard place.

It's so wet lettuce. Either you're anti racist or you're not. You don't have actively attack them, just not soften your stance making it completely meaningless when you say you "agree with most of what [they're] saying".

 

[Doctor Feel]

Xenophobia isn't a right wing tenement. Her views and statements go beyond traditional political boxing.

They are, in fact, unconstitutional and IMO illegal.

I don't think tenement means what you think it means, lol. Regardless, it's irrelevant if her views are outside traditional politics. Whether they are unconstitutional or illegal is another thing.

 

[ScooterBrother]

Therefore, if 1.1 million votes for her secures her a number of senate seats and puts her into that position of power - 4.5% is not an insignificant vote count. It's pretty straight forward.

Not sure where this 1.1m votes come from, I think that poster multiplied the Australian total population by the 4.3% instead of the 16m voters. Its actually more like 600k. So yep, in the grand scheme of things, considering the huge protest vote movement, the QLD Palmer situation and a myriad of other reasons, 600k people is an insignificant minority. Which unfortunately, due to the utter stupidity of the senate proportional system, results in One Nation getting 4 seats out of 76.

So yes, you're right, it is pretty straight forward.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Not really though. Because more centrist would be "let's not deport all of the innocent people from one social group" and the extremist view is "let's deport all of the innocent people from one social group".

The extremist views should expect backlash. Centrist, reasonable positions such as denouncing a person whose only political platform for their entire career is "cast out this minority" shouldn't fear backlash. It's a sign of where we're at, I guess.

Just as leftist views should expect backlash from the right. All is fair in love and war.

 

[ScooterBrother]

I don't think tenement means what you think it means, lol. Regardless, it's irrelevant if her views are outside traditional politics. Whether they are unconstitutional or illegal is another thing.

I meant it like holding or property of...

Sorry, probably bit of wank word bingo

 

[Trewth]

Like I said earlier, check the grief that Kochie is copping for the bits of criticism he did give Hanson. I honestly do not know how he could have gone about it any better. I think people are underestimating just how horrible Sunrise's key demographic are.

 

[Steve Dore]

Xenophobia isn't a right wing tenement. .......

This is a left wing tenement but the right wing is almost identical.





Edit: The word you meant to use was "tenet" but I got your meaning.

 

[ScooterBrother]

Yeah yeah, go and do some math and ill work on my English.

 

[Dylan8]

Like I said earlier, check the grief that Kochie is copping for the bits of criticism he did give Hanson. I honestly do not know how he could have gone about it any better. I think people are underestimating just how horrible Sunrise's key demographic are.

It's blown up a bit in this thread. I expect better than this from David but it's somewhat expected. I'm more upset that he has to water down his criticisms of Pauline. ****ing. Hanson. That's where we're at now.

It's also breakfast television. Populist shit. Again, if pandering to Hanson is populist then god help us.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You're right, 1,169,000 people is an insignificant, sorry tiny, number of people.

She got half that in the senate.The figure you are quoting is what the greens got in the Senate. Unless you are adding house of rep votes + senate votes which I know is how the electoral commission pay political parties $2.6× per vote, but there is about 90% double counting there as if you vote ON in the lower house you do the same in the upper house and the the big 2 and independents get a lot bigger leakage between the votes for the 2 houses. Some one said 16m voters - registered is 15.2 mil but only 13.9m voted.

Hanson is the only 1 of the 4 that got a 6 year term. The other 3 scrapped in as the 11th or 12th senator elected from their state. Xenephon and Stirling Griffin got 6 year terms for SA as they were the 3rd and 6th elected of the 12 in SA.

 

[Steve Dore]

She got half that in the senate.The figure you are quoting is what the greens got in the Senate. ......

Nah, I $%&*ed up and did % of total population not of votes cast.

 

[Papa G]

Not sure where this 1.1m votes come from, I think that poster multiplied the Australian total population by the 4.3% instead of the 16m voters. Its actually more like 600k. So yep, in the grand scheme of things, considering the huge protest vote movement, the QLD Palmer situation and a myriad of other reasons, 600k people is an insignificant minority. Which unfortunately, due to the utter stupidity of the senate proportional system, results in One Nation getting 4 seats out of 76.

So yes, you're right, it is pretty straight forward.

Yeah 600k is right. Howard was using that number on Lateline last night. Does anybody else have a thing for Emma Alberici?

 

[70sDinosaur]

As John Howard has quite rightly said, if you attack her - it will in some ways vindicate her position and only solidify her support. It's best to treat extremists with respect (you need not agree with them) as not to marginalise them. When they are marginalised it only plays into their hands. If you debate with her, it will only result in more harsh words being said about certain cultures - just let her have her say and move on. If you don't poke it, it won't respond so aggressively.

Pauline Hanson was John Howard's dog whistle.

 

[Trewth]

It's blown up a bit in this thread. I expect better than this from David but it's somewhat expected. I'm more upset that he has to water down his criticisms of Pauline. *******. Hanson. That's where we're at now.

It's also breakfast television. Populist shit. Again, if pandering to Hanson is populist then god help us.

Agreed.