South Australian football - where is it at?

[MaddAdam]

Combined losses of over 3m for the South Australian teams. Not the first year it has happened and the future, especially for Port, looks like there'll be dark times before the good.

Surely not all of this can be put down to simple stadium deals, although I'm not denying that plays a role.

I'd be interested to hear from South Australians on where South Aussie footy sits.

For example, in terms of the juniours, only three of the top 30 from this draft were South Australians. Four in 2010.

Hopefully we can have a reasonably mature discussion about this.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

For example, in terms of the juniours, only three of the top 30 from this draft were South Australians. Four in 2010.

This is the biggest problem. WA produces far more top class juniors than SA does every year. While SA clubs can't get access to all of the best SA talent, a strong junior pool provides a solid foundation for their AFL clubs.

What is the difference in junior funding for SANFL vs WAFC? As an outsider, it seems to me that far more money goes to junior development in WA, while in SA, most of it is a slush fund for the SANFL clubs to pretend they're still something meaningful.

 

[MaddAdam]

This is the biggest problem. WA produces far more top class juniors than SA does every year. While SA clubs can't get access to all of the best SA talent, a strong junior pool provides a solid foundation for their AFL clubs.

What is the difference in junior funding for SANFL vs WAFC? As an outsider, it seems to me that far more money goes to junior development in WA, while in SA, most of it is a slush fund for the SANFL clubs to pretend they're still something meaningful.

This is something in particular that interests me. I was on the Port board briefly the other day - where I discovered the quite impressive acronym SNAFL - and my feeling was that the situation you describe is exactly what happens.

 

[Nanien]

I think there is just too much money and time being spent on the local league rather than the two AFL clubs.

 

[Dazb86]

Seems a sinking ship.

 

[MaddAdam]

I think there is just too much money and time being spent on the local league rather than the two AFL clubs.

The SNAFL is $20m in debt yes?

My own view is that the AFL are using the two SA teams, Port to a greater extent that than the Crows, as pawns in an attempt to kill off the SNAFL's control of AFL footy clubs in SA.

 

[PaPaGeorGeo]

The facts about the draftees could be easily argued that it's a cycle, I believe our U16 teams have won the last two national championships and our U18s have been second or so also. So there is defiantly some talent there

 

[daniel_4tw]

For example, in terms of the juniours, only three of the top 30 from this draft were South Australians. Four in 2010.

Take this with a grain of salt. Teams are more likely to take players from their own state (local media bias, go home factor etc). So just because only 4 were taken in the top 30, doesn't mean players that were taken >30 wouldn't have been taken earlier if they came from Victoria due to having so many more teams in the state.

SA footy is just fine. The SA teams have been fairly successful compared to a lot of Victorian teams in the past two decades. A small dip in performance has resulted in a small operating loss, which won't be an issue once they inevitably bounce back.

New stadium coming soon won't hurt either.

 

[bringbackbucky]

The SANFL is slowly but surely killing South Australian football.

Their charter is to have the 2nd best competition in the land. This is to the detriment of both AFL clubs and junior football in the state.

The SANFL clubs spend all of their money recruiting blokes who aren't quite good enough for AFL but who can dominate at SANFL level. Look at the most dominant SANFL club Central Districts. Centrals have played off in 10 consecutive Grand Finals but in that time have barely produced an AFL recruit. Therein lies the problem...

Oh - and both clubs are broke because the SANFL rapes us our way through the AAMI Stadium gates and gives us one on the way out as well.

 

[IanW]

The key really is the stadium deals that make Port and the Crows subsidise the SANFL.

Secondly, the SANFL clubs see their role as winning SANFL premierships, not as developing potential AFL players - fixing that will take radical steps, like paying clubs when a player they develop gets picked up in the draft.

But mostly its Port and Adelaide are crap on the field, so their crowds are down, so they lose money. Once the wins start up again, the crowds come back, and the tin gets refilled. Its how it works.

 

[BrownPearHookers]

My son was not able to play Football this year as my local club had had too many kids trying to register, quiet a few clubs have this problem, and I have not got a liscense to take them any further. This is a common problem, I know a few parents are now taking them to soccer as it is much easier to get into.

 

[Powerade 08]

SANFL controls football in this state and only care about the SANFL.

They make 10 mill from the Crows and Port each year and don't invest any of it back into the clubs.

The money goes to bigger salary caps for the SANFL teams so they can recruit AFL has-beens instead of developing talent.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

SANFL controls football in this state and only care about the SANFL.

They make 10 mill from the Crows and Port each year and don't invest any of it back into the clubs.

The money goes to bigger salary caps for the SANFL teams so they can recruit AFL has-beens instead of developing talent.

/thread

 

[ClintEastwood]

/thread

yep...

 

[Macca19]

I'd be interested to hear from South Australians on where South Aussie footy sits.

For example, in terms of the juniours, only three of the top 30 from this draft were South Australians. Four in 2010.

Its amazing when you look at the state of SA & WA football. One league creates plenty of draftees, makes multi million profits from its AFL clubs and its two AFL clubs are super rich. The other is well in debt, doesnt create enough draftees, milks the AFL clubs to subsidise "the 2nd best league in the land" and is in a terrible way.

So long as the SANFL can continue to milk the two AFL clubs to subsidise the SANFL then I dont think they really care.

 

[Papa G]

The problem is not that the SANFL and SANFL clubs are self interested, that is their right, really the clubs sole purpose is to try and win the SANFL flag, not develop AFL players. From their point of view, they do not compete in the AFL so the hell should they care about the AFL? The problem lies in the fact that as owners of the licences their is a massive conflict of interest. Port and the Crows sole purpose should be to try and win the AFL and do what is their own best interests to do this and this entails using all the resources at their disposal to do so. Under the current structure this is compromised. Why in God's name do South Adelaide for example not only get a say (through the SANFL commission) how Port or the AFC are run, but also profit from it? I understand that this is how it was set up and how it is, but it does not make it right. The tail wags the dog, and the dog, although it is their cash cow is at best treated with disdain, at worst openly despised. Lunacy.

 

[PAUR]

Not quite /thread, SANFL made 4 million from port and injected 2 million back albeit with a hand forced by the AFL. So they did invest 2 million dollars into Port at the threat of losing their licencse (or some significant penalty)

SANFL views both licences as INCOME to support the SANFL clubs. The voting interests at the SA football comission are only SANFL clubs (except for Port Adelaide I think?). The comission is not independant.

WAFC views both licences as INCOME to support football in WA at all levels. The comission is independant.

AFL views GC & GWS as INVESTMENTS to increase number of people following AFL as a total, just as it viewed giving the SANFL and WAFC the licences in the first place.

The conflict for SANFL and AFL is that the AFL want total number of AFL followers to increase and the SANFL want total money to the SANFL maximised. These views are not aligned and the penalty is paid by both the AFL clubs.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Some interesting comments about SANFL clubs being more interested in winning flags than developing talent, Norwood and the Eagles recently have supplied a fair few players to the AFL and both have been in contention/won a flag recently.

 

[Papa G]

Some interesting comments about SANFL clubs being more interested in winning flags than developing talent, Norwood and the Eagles recently have supplied a fair few players to the AFL and both have been in contention/won a flag recently.

This is an unavoidable by product of having a good system/team/club. But is Nathan Bassett's prime role to win Norwood the flag or produce AFL talent? I have no problem with SANFL clubs doing what is in their best interests and I also think their should be far more financial compo for producing AFL talent, but it is the SANFL clubs own best interests that come at the expense of the 2 licences they profit from. This is where the conflict lies.

 

[Starburns_]

The key really is the stadium deals that make Port and the Crows subsidise the SANFL.

Secondly, the SANFL clubs see their role as winning SANFL premierships, not as developing potential AFL players - fixing that will take radical steps, like paying clubs when a player they develop gets picked up in the draft.

But mostly its Port and Adelaide are crap on the field, so their crowds are down, so they lose money. Once the wins start up again, the crowds come back, and the tin gets refilled. Its how it works.

This already happens with every club when they supply a drafted player. Either the money isn't enough for the SANFL clubs, or it's a pride thing.

 

[Starburns_]

Not quite /thread, SANFL made 4 million from port and injected 2 million back albeit with a hand forced by the AFL. So they did invest 2 million dollars into Port at the threat of losing their licencse (or some significant penalty)

SANFL views both licences as INCOME to support the SANFL clubs. The voting interests at the SA football comission are only SANFL clubs (except for Port Adelaide I think?). The comission is not independant.

WAFC views both licences as INCOME to support football in WA at all levels. The comission is independant.

AFL views GC & GWS as INVESTMENTS to increase number of people following AFL as a total, just as it viewed giving the SANFL and WAFC the licences in the first place.

The conflict for SANFL and AFL is that the AFL want total number of AFL followers to increase and the SANFL want total money to the SANFL maximised. These views are not aligned and the penalty is paid by both the AFL clubs.

The SANFL need to realise that they need to start operating like the WAFC by making financially healthy AFL clubs their priority. They need to suck it up and stop living beyond their means, their salary caps are too high. Reducing the cap doesn't automatically make their league any weaker anyway. If they continue to use the AFL clubs to subsidise the SANFL clubs, everyone will continue to lose.

 

[Lach72]

The SANFL need to realise that they need to start operating like the WAFC by making financially healthy AFL clubs their priority. They need to suck it up and stop living beyond their means, their salary caps are too high. Reducing the cap doesn't automatically make their league any weaker anyway. If they continue to use the AFL clubs to subsidise the SANFL clubs, everyone will continue to lose.

It's not a complete utopia. MOST WAFL clubs lost money...not huge amounts granted but still lost.
The main benefit is that there's a salary cap, plus a draft points system so that we're reasonably even across the board. The WAFC works in with the AFL clubs to a degree to make sure we're competitive and solvent, and they also have a warchest to keep the state footy system healthy, IIRC.

Personally, as a Freo supporter first, I'd like the AFL to be giving the WAFC the money that Freo and West Coast currently pay, so we're stronger and can develop OUR club. This should come with no strings attached, other than to prevent a duplication of services and programs.

The AFL currently bankrolls footy in Victoria, NSW and QLD, leaving the WA and SA clubs at a distinct monetary disadvantage. Fremantle and West Coast pay substantial money that results in the development of players that ALL clubs get access to, and we only get 1/18th of a chance at getting a player we've helped pay for.

I don't have a problem with ground fees, which we pay about $2million for. But the other Royalty payment should be given to the WAFC by the AFL, and we keep that for the development of our club.

 

[MarkT2]

Draftee distribution is cyclical. It is irrelevant.

The reality is Adelaide are secure forever. They have a large following and he AFL cannot afford to lose them. Port on the other hand, have a much more difficult future. In the context of the AFL Commission, the only purpose they serve in the scheme of things at present is local opposition for Adelaide. The need for 2 teams in a locality is why they were borne as an AFL franchise and why will remain for the foreseeable future regardless of on or off field performance. Their strength is their weakness. They polarise the local population and will always find it hard to make substantial ground while they are "Port Adelaide".

The local comp will always struggle as will the WA and Victorian versions. Australians will flock to top level sport but few will attend a second level version. There are some bloody good cricketers playing shield cricket in front of relatives and a school excusion.

I think the real issue with SA is the fact nthat the 2 clubs are actually the SANFL entrants into the AFL. The advantage of the Victorian clubs in particular is they are member clubs representing and accountable to themselves alone.

 

[PAUR]

Huh?

The AFL were happy for us to be in the AFL before the AFC was even a concept, so I disagree with the reasoning you have given for us to be in the AFL.

 

[Stewies Power]

Andy D usually gets what he wants. And by doing so he has found out how difficult and stubborn the $ANFL are. If he thought that working with the $ANFL to try and get the Power and Crows better stadium deals was extremely diffucult, imagine how hard it will be for him to discuss the Power and Crows becomming independent and for the $ANFL to give up their licenses to the Power and Crows. Shit will go down