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Moved Thread St Kilda's 2012 Trading
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The Finger
Premiership Player
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- #77
Future stars Mock Draft had Lee going to Carlton with their first round pick.
And its amazing what some mock drafts come up with but i'm pretty sure that the blues would go Menzel every day of the week at pick 12.
hayes
Brownlow Medallist
OP has nailed it. 10 games into a season is the perfect time to judge moves from the previous year. Spot on... not.
My argument is that in rebuilding the team they are trying to avoid accumulating deadwood. ( ie Currie ).
They paid extra to get a buckup ruckman that will become something more in the future.
Unless there is serious injury we are now set for rucks for the next decade.
I was a bit perplexed about TDL and still am. ( Noting that Nick Kommer seems to be holding down a spot in Essendon's side ).
hayes
Brownlow Medallist
Hickey isn't far off going beyond Macca. Everyone looks at his marks in the backline and think he's a good ruckmen, he gets rag dolled by the oppositions #1 on a regular basis and doesn't give our mids enough of a chance at stoppages. Since Macca became one-out in the ruck our clearance and contested ball stats have plummeted. Same midfield (in 2011/12), different results. Can only be one thing.
The club has consistently said the only thing holding Lee back is that he's simply too light for AFL football at this stage. He'll be fine. We got upgraded picks from those trades as well that put us in a position to draft the guys we did, and we're all very happy about the way they're traveling.
TDL trade made no sense, but nobody's perfect.
The Finger
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #82
Kevin Sheahan is the guru when it comes to these things though.
If Lee was 18 and did what he did last year in the WAFL where would he go? Top 5 Id say.
Lee is not ready for AFL football at the moment. Much too slight to hold down a key position role and given St Kilda's midfield has generally been beaten this year, he hasn't had the delivery that a player of that size needs to look good. I think that Jack Gunston would be a very good comparison, he's an impressive, effective player for Hawthorn, but could you imagine the kinds of thinks people would be saying about him if he were to be playing for a side that didn't give him physical protection and elite delivery? Lee probably needs to be given another year or two, if he hasn't shown signs of delivering by then, then by all means call him a bust, but not just yet. Glad that there hasn't been too much misconception in this thread (unlike the rest of bigfooty) about the fact that it was Lee + 24 (Wright) and 43 (Saunders) for pick 12, aside from a particular poster on the previous page that used the ridiculous logic that Lee was worth a late first round pick (lets say 18) but not worth an early first round pick (12), but picks 12 and 24 would be pretty good value in comparison to pick 18?? I've got a feeling that this misconception will carry on for a while, much like the people that claimed and still claim Freo traded Matthew Lloyd for Tony Delaney.
Hickey, I'm not so sure about. He's a huge lump of a guy that is still a fair way off fitness and skills wise, given time he will probably develop into a reasonable lead ruckman. The issue is that they also have McEvoy who is in a similar age bracket, a similar type of player and they don't seem to be able to be able to play in the same side together given they aren't particularly versatile. Maybe McEvoy, given his marking ability could play as a key forward, but he seems to do his best work aerially where he floats into the pack from the side, not so much on the lead or in a true one on one wrestle.
I think what people see is that these players have been traded in, so they must immediately add to the best 22 or else they're duds. If you look at it more in the more balanced view that these two guys are pretty much draft picks for the long term then their current output is really not much of an issue.
Dennis-Lane was a bizarre move. I don't get why they needed him considering they already have a heap of the mid/small sized forwards already on their list. They didn't give up much for him, he has performed well in the VFL and he is a decent depth player who can bob up with a goal or two when he does get a game in the AFL, but they've already got Milera and Saad who do this anyway.
Hickey, I'm not so sure about. He's a huge lump of a guy that is still a fair way off fitness and skills wise, given time he will probably develop into a reasonable lead ruckman. The issue is that they also have McEvoy who is in a similar age bracket, a similar type of player and they don't seem to be able to be able to play in the same side together given they aren't particularly versatile. Maybe McEvoy, given his marking ability could play as a key forward, but he seems to do his best work aerially where he floats into the pack from the side, not so much on the lead or in a true one on one wrestle.
I think what people see is that these players have been traded in, so they must immediately add to the best 22 or else they're duds. If you look at it more in the more balanced view that these two guys are pretty much draft picks for the long term then their current output is really not much of an issue.
Dennis-Lane was a bizarre move. I don't get why they needed him considering they already have a heap of the mid/small sized forwards already on their list. They didn't give up much for him, he has performed well in the VFL and he is a decent depth player who can bob up with a goal or two when he does get a game in the AFL, but they've already got Milera and Saad who do this anyway.
SaintLex
Premiership Player
- Aug 26, 2012
- 3,194
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- AFL Club
- St Kilda
A lot on our board were baffled by the TDL trade, but when you consider that of those you have mentioned, two are close to retirement (Schneider's body can't hold up and Milne has lost a lot of his speed and touch - both could well retire at the end of the year, if not next year).
That leaves Saad and Milera (both horribly out form, for what it's worth and imo, i'm not sure Milera's going to make it), as well as a guy on our Rookie list.
I suppose that's where the thinking was when getting TDL, but definitely a trade that left most of baffled.
Strahany
Premiership Player
You're forgetting that the Saints got the first pick of the second round, 24, and a pick in the 40s as well as Lee for just pick 12. 24 netted Wright, who has been the Saints' best performing kid this year, and the other pick got Saunders, who looks to be your "run of the mill kid" at this stage of the season.
All that considered, we hardly reached for Lee at all.
Look at Aaron Black ( for example ). After four seasons he's doing stuff.
You recruit these guys you don't even know if they'll be good until several years later.
Saints rookied Khan Haretuku in 2007 ( the year they recruited McEvoy ).
Three years after he was delisted he started making a big impact in VFL.
Tom Lynch has had a breakout season, 5 years after he was originally drafted.
Rhys Stanley ( same draft as Lynch ) is still happening, but we think he will be good, at something.
Paul Cahill sat on the list for 3 years before delisting.
Daniel Archer was on the list for 3 years.
The recruiters have recognised that they need to fill the key positions.
If we started drafting the best mids last year ( even though we sorely need them ), we'd only have increased our lack of forwards, key backs and rucks.
Hickey is good enough to ruck out a game by himself NOW. ( but not every game ).
If we get some good games out of Lee next season or the season after we have fasttracked significantly.
Once the key players are settled we can look at the midfield. Every season there are midfielders drafted who can impact the game immediately.
Otherwise we risk setting up a competitive midfield with no key forwards or backs.
You recruit these guys you don't even know if they'll be good until several years later.
Saints rookied Khan Haretuku in 2007 ( the year they recruited McEvoy ).
Three years after he was delisted he started making a big impact in VFL.
Tom Lynch has had a breakout season, 5 years after he was originally drafted.
Rhys Stanley ( same draft as Lynch ) is still happening, but we think he will be good, at something.
Paul Cahill sat on the list for 3 years before delisting.
Daniel Archer was on the list for 3 years.
The recruiters have recognised that they need to fill the key positions.
If we started drafting the best mids last year ( even though we sorely need them ), we'd only have increased our lack of forwards, key backs and rucks.
Hickey is good enough to ruck out a game by himself NOW. ( but not every game ).
If we get some good games out of Lee next season or the season after we have fasttracked significantly.
Once the key players are settled we can look at the midfield. Every season there are midfielders drafted who can impact the game immediately.
Otherwise we risk setting up a competitive midfield with no key forwards or backs.
Winners Only
Cancelled
- Oct 16, 2003
- 810
- 529
- AFL Club
- GWS
The SAINTS recruiting, list management and player development was no better than Melbourne's between 2005 - 2011. People blame Ross LYON for this but it was obvious he had no faith in the Saints recruiting or list management teams and consequently encouraged the club to look at recycled top up players like Lovett etc.
It is no coincidence that the list is in such a poor state NOW !
If anyone is to blame it is the club CEO who employed all those incompetent fools back then ... then forced Ross Lyon out of the club !
It is no coincidence that the list is in such a poor state NOW !
If anyone is to blame it is the club CEO who employed all those incompetent fools back then ... then forced Ross Lyon out of the club !
The Finger
Premiership Player
- Thread starter
- #90
The Finger
Premiership Player
The Finger
Premiership Player
- Thread starter
- #94
Well it was a swipe that's for sure. I think they had a shocker of a trade period and I'm entitled to write about it on a footy forum.
Stop derailing my bloody thread.
- Aug 22, 2009
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I think I'd agree with the Saints' fans saying it's too early to tell.
At the moment we are all just guessing. I'm guessing that they won't be good decisions, but we won't know at least for a couple of years.
At the moment we are all just guessing. I'm guessing that they won't be good decisions, but we won't know at least for a couple of years.
The Finger
Premiership Player
bombermick
Norm Smith Medallist
Lee is 22 and still too skinny. Do the Saints have to wait 'til he's 24 and then hope to recoup some of their investment?
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
Not sure why people are slamming the TDL trade either. He was a bee's dick from playing in a premiership winning team and had showed some ok form prior to that. Not great but ok.
"Oh but, you have Milne and Schneider and Milera and Saad"
Milne - Looks like his last year due to age and form.
Schneider - Played midfield whe he cold get on the park last year. Injury ravaged and looks done.
Milera - Played more on a wing last year. Lots of talk about home sickness. Could be gone at the end of the year.
Saad - Had some very good form in the back half of last year. Has been shut out most of this year.
The only other option we have is Minchington who is a rookie listed player that is yet to get a game.
For 2013 was it a good trade? Eh, probably not, but going forward I'd be expecting TDL to be fighting with Saad for that small forward role so to get an experienced senior player, with some talent, who fills a depth issue for the club going forward... not all that bad.
"Oh but, you have Milne and Schneider and Milera and Saad"
Milne - Looks like his last year due to age and form.
Schneider - Played midfield whe he cold get on the park last year. Injury ravaged and looks done.
Milera - Played more on a wing last year. Lots of talk about home sickness. Could be gone at the end of the year.
Saad - Had some very good form in the back half of last year. Has been shut out most of this year.
The only other option we have is Minchington who is a rookie listed player that is yet to get a game.
For 2013 was it a good trade? Eh, probably not, but going forward I'd be expecting TDL to be fighting with Saad for that small forward role so to get an experienced senior player, with some talent, who fills a depth issue for the club going forward... not all that bad.
- Thread starter
- #100
Oh so picks 24 and 25 are highly rated now are they? They could have their hands on the next P.Johnson, Moody, Hughes, Rusling, Renouf, Hinkley, L.Ablett, Armstrong, Urch, Ch.Jones, Mills, Djerrkura or Collier. History says those picks have about a 15-20% success rate.
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