St Kilda's development and drafting

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He started on the wing last year and was terrible. He was then moved to half forward and looked like a completely different player.
When starting at half forward, he tends to get more of the ball and sets us up better than when he starts on the wing.

Fair enough I didn’t watch a lot of St Kilda last season. Was more speaking on gamestyle. Think he needs to work on his workrate but he’ll be a great player people bagging him have very short memories that’s for sure.
 
Apart from Newmes, Ross and Stevens, st kilda haven't got anyone else. Billings, Dunstan and Sinclair are useless. It just proves that there isn't much elite talent inside the top 10 draft picks. I don't get it, what made Billings a top 10 draft pick?
Newnes (pick 37), Ross (25), Steven (42), Dunstan (18), Sinclair (rookie). How are they relevant to discussing top 10 draft picks?

We wouldn't know what talent there is inside the top 10 because we only had 3 top 10 draft picks over an entire decade (2007-2016). The Dees had 11 in that time (including Hogan) to rebuild. No wonder their list is in better shape.

Since we started to 'rebuild' - top 10 picks (2011-2016)
Giants - 19
Suns - 9
Dees - 7
Lions - 5
Blues - 3
Saints – 2

The only time we traded out of the top 10 in that period was 2015. There we got Jade Gresham and Jake Carlisle and Essendon got Aaron Francis, Alex Morgan and Craig Bird. Every other club does that trade every day of the week, and the only people that cant figure out that it was a good decision are David King and most Essendon supporters.

Yes we had 2 top 10 picks last year, but Coffield and Clarke have been at the club 5 minutes. Not saying our drafting has been that great. I just can never figure out why people are surprised we don't have any A-grade quality when we were picking at the back end of the draft for the best part of a decade.

Reality is that it takes a long time to rebuild via the draft in modern football. Also part of the reason why Carlton (2002-2017) has won less games / is a worse side than Fitzroy (1981-1996). And Fitzroy got booted out of the comp.
 
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I take some solace in seeing a debutant every other week atm, and every single one has looked a promising prospect thus far.

The terrifying part of that is that they don’t look too far off the caliber of blokes that have been there 3-5years, which highlights a current problem at the club. Some of those guys showed similar promise early on, so I don’t think drafting is the problem. It’s what happens at the club after they are there that needs to be held under a microscope. Also, now other players have regressed after having strong years.
 
He started on the wing last year and was terrible. He was then moved to half forward and looked like a completely different player.
When starting at half forward, he tends to get more of the ball and sets us up better than when he starts on the wing.
Pretty much this^
Without looking at the numbers, he probably doesnt win enough of his own ball and likely he would get exposed defensively playing wing.
He's more an outside-finisher type, just needs to start finishing!


Well at least you are Both honest. A common sense thing for a coach to do: Choose a certain player and play to that players strengths in putting him to his preferred position on the ground
 
So in essence Lyon coaches to save his job rather than what’s best for the club.

Interestingly enough it seems that once again his hand has been forced with the multiple changes for tonight’s game after last weeks horrendous start and that was according to Langdon, Hardie and Readings this morning
Oh and For the record since its 2018. Freo have given debut games to Brayshaw, Banfield, Cerra, Crowden, Duman, Giro, Jones and Switkowski. That's 8 players. If that's not a sign of Ross Lyon playing youf, I don't know what is.
Back in 2013 the Saints had a strategy they took to their board. It was a strategy designed to win a flag before 2020.

The plan was to invest heavily in the draft. They didn't.

The strategy involved a 40 page blueprint that included every player in the competition at that time. And it was a very aggressive approach. Saints football boss Chris Pelchen said his club was unlikely to target anyone next year, but after that the message was clear. Pelchen said it was time to heavily invest in the talent pool as the Hawks did during his tenure at Waverley and the Pies when Saints coach Alan Richardson ran their academy. “We’ve made a very deliberate approach to that,” he said. “We’ll be going very, very aggressively at free agency from 2016.” “It’s (the document) extensive and also restructures our TPP (total player payments) model to ultimately accommodate the free agents we’re intending to bring in,” Pelchen said.

“It’s a critical period for us as a club,” Pelchen said. “Our intention is to increase our activity in the first three rounds of the draft in that period (2013-16) by 50 per cent. “So instead of having what would equate to one selection in each round for those four years (12 selections), we’re intending to have a total of 18 selections. “We have full confidence in our recruiting staff to deliver on the list strategy. Their level of research and planning is the equal of any in the competition,” Pelchen said.

When I look at the essence of that plan, which was to use the draft talent pool and draft 18 players, something went awry, because they ended up with 13. Plans can change, but it was a well thought out deliberate strategy.

And the strategy wasn't just about recruitment it was also about membership. "They are also aiming to boost membership numbers significantly. By 2018, the Saints plan to have more than 50,000 Australia-based members, and a further 10,000 in New Zealand."

St Kilda's blueprint for pre-2020 flag
Jennifer Phelan
Mar 13, 2014 7:30PM

ST KILDA has outlined plans to win its second premiership before 2020 as part of a long-range strategic outlook that includes increasing membership, reducing debt and creating an "admired culture".

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-13/saints-map-road-to-2018
Just like the Middle easterns infamous "road map to peace". That worked out well.
 
Don't Worry, they will blame Ross Lyon or this. They always do
Interestingly, only Steven and Armitage were blooded by Lyon and remain on the list.

Given that decent senior players are where they really struggle, there's a very strong case to blame the Lyon era for the state of their list in terms of its age/quality balance.
 
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St.Kilda just have too many players that are good but not great. In fact I don't know if they've got a single guy on their list who you would say is out and out an elite player - someone who regularly competes and achieves AA status.
St Kilda have a list similar to Essendon.
Lots of solid B graders and decent list depth, but no elite cream of the crop superstars.
Steele and Merrett are both A grade and have been for years, but are a tier below the absolute top echelon eg Nick Daicos, Lachie Neale, Patrick Cripps, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield.
 
St Kilda have a list similar to Essendon.
Lots of solid B graders and decent list depth, but no elite cream of the crop superstars.
Steele and Merrett are both A grade and have been for years, but are a tier below the absolute top echelon eg Nick Daicos, Lachie Neale, Patrick Cripps, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield.
I think you are after the stkilda in no mans land thread
 
St Kilda have a list similar to Essendon.
Lots of solid B graders and decent list depth, but no elite cream of the crop superstars.
Steele and Merrett are both A grade and have been for years, but are a tier below the absolute top echelon eg Nick Daicos, Lachie Neale, Patrick Cripps, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield.

Yes. But hopefully that's going to change.

Expectations on Pou to be that elite player (After his end to 2024) were super high but he's injured again now so we have to wait.

We have a ton of other young first round draft picks, guys like Wilson, Taru, Travaglia, Wanganeen, Collard etc and then other guys like Owens and Windy who are young enough to still develop significantly more.
 
Yes. But hopefully that's going to change.

Expectations on Pou to be that elite player (After his end to 2024) were super high but he's injured again now so we have to wait.

We have a ton of other young first round draft picks, guys like Wilson, Taru, Travaglia, Wanganeen, Collard etc and then other guys like Owens and Windy who are young enough to still develop significantly more.
Just ignore this rubbish mate and hopefully the thread goes away for another 7 years
 

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Yes. But hopefully that's going to change.

Expectations on Pou to be that elite player (After his end to 2024) were super high but he's injured again now so we have to wait.

We have a ton of other young first round draft picks, guys like Wilson, Taru, Travaglia, Wanganeen, Collard etc and then other guys like Owens and Windy who are young enough to still develop significantly more.
Wouldn't say a "ton".
(Collard was pick 28)

To be exact your first rounders are :

Wilson
Tauru (he looks a long way off)
Travaglia
Philippou
Wanganeen
Dow
Clark
King
MacRae

What's amazing is your three best players are all Rookie picks

Marshall, Wilkie, Sinclair
 
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Wouldn't say a "ton".
(Collard was pick 28)

To be exact your first rounders are :

Wilson
Tauru (he looks a long way off)
Travaglia
Philippou
Wanganeen
Dow
Clark
King
MacRae

What's amazing is your three best players are all Rookie picks

Marshall, Wilkie, Sinclair

Not exactly a surprise. We didn’t draft or develop well from roughly 2012-20, with a poorly performing footy department to say the least, but expect some of our top end talent in the 18-23 range to become our best players in next 3-5 years (e.g., Philipou, Wilson, Wanganeen-Milera, etc).

It’s unfortunate that being in no man’s land in mid table is also further compromised by other equalisation levers or competitive advantages not exactly at Saints disposal (e.g., academy concessions, father sons, free agency, financial inequities, etc) which makes going back to draft to right previous wrongs even more of a slow burn.
 
Wouldn't say a "ton".
(Collard was pick 28)

To be exact your first rounders are :

Wilson
Tauru (he looks a long way off)
Travaglia
Philippou
Wanganeen
Dow
Clark
King
MacRae

What's amazing is your three best players are all Rookie picks

Marshall, Wilkie, Sinclair

Not that it's important but pick 28 was still a first round pick in that draft.

Garcia, Shoemakers were not first rounders but look like really good pickups.

Tauru might be a season off playing much football but if we're looking 5 years down the track which we should be with our list he's going to be right in the frame.

Quietly confident we have a really strong group of young kids at the club now.
 
Not that it's important but pick 28 was still a first round pick in that draft.

Garcia, Shoemakers were not first rounders but look like really good pickups.

Tauru might be a season off playing much football but if we're looking 5 years down the track which we should be with our list he's going to be right in the frame.

Quietly confident we have a really strong group of young kids at the club now.
And Owens ...
 
St Kilda have a list similar to Essendon.
Lots of solid B graders and decent list depth, but no elite cream of the crop superstars.
Steele and Merrett are both A grade and have been for years, but are a tier below the absolute top echelon eg Nick Daicos, Lachie Neale, Patrick Cripps, Jeremy Cameron, Patrick Dangerfield.
The saints have Ross Lyon as coach again. I don't know if that's a bad thing or good thing.
 
Hmm this crowd have been "developing" since 1966. I'm sure the Aints will win a flag at some point before the earth falls into the sun.:laughv1:

You support Carlton you muppet.

Might be worth the self reminder every time you consider trolling other teams.

Considering your joining date your club has probably seen more spoons in your lifetime than mine.
 
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let's compare him with someone we all know can play - ollie wines - averages at 22 years of age. Wines the better record, but not that much in it, and note disposal efficiency. Watching one game is hardly indicative.
Dunstan - Wines
10.4 Kicks Per Game 11.9
11.2 Handballs Per Game 14.3
21.6 Disposals Per Game 26.2
4.2
Marks Per Game 2.9
0.6 Goals Per Game 0.5
0.6 Behinds Per Game 0.6
4.9 Tackles Per Game 5.8
3.8 Inside 50s Per Game 4.2
0.8
Goal Assists Per Game 0.5
8.3 Contested Possessions Per Game 13.7
12.9
Uncontested Possessions Per Game 12.3
16.1 Effective Disposals Per Game 15.6
74.5% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 59.5%
2.5 Clangers Per Game 4.7
0.1 Contested Marks Per Game 0.4
0.6
Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.4
I know it is 2025.

But comparing Luke Dunstan to Ollie Wines?

Wines is the better player of the 2.

Dunstan had a solid 8 seasons at the saints.
 

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St Kilda's development and drafting


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