STARTING 22 FOR 2023 - TOUGH DECISIONS TO BE MADE

[Hank Heavenly]

I said this last year, I can see JR falling off a cliff form wise. He's losing/lost his agility and athleticism that was always his strength, and he gets beat in 1-1 all the time, out and out strength has never been his game.

I would be keeping Ryan in the side, allows Cumberland to stay F50 and Ryan can then take the ruck if needed. Then the choice become between Miller and a small fwd/mid .

It's got to a point with Jack that no matter what goals he kicks, being a liability for the remainder of the game is now having more and impact than his goal kicking is a threat

 

[LTT]

I said this last year, I can see JR falling off a cliff form wise. He's losing/lost his agility and athleticism that was always his strength, and he gets beat in 1-1 all the time, out and out strength has never been his game.

I would be keeping Ryan in the side, allows Cumberland to stay F50 and Ryan can then take the ruck if needed. Then the choice become between Miller and a small fwd/mid .

It's got to a point with Jack that no matter what goals he kicks, being a liability for the remainder of the game is now having more and impact than his goal kicking is a threat

Unfortunately I think you are right about Jack. Most really good tall forwards fall away very quickly. It’s like all the smashing the packs and getting jumped on by the defenders suddenly takes its toll on the body. I hope the he walks away on his own terms otherwise he probably should be dropped. Cotch could sit on the bench until his 300th the retire I think both should not have been talked into another year. Retire like the champions they are

 

[LTT]

I just don't get all the talk from the club and supporters about the need to play Cotchin as a forward.

Did no one watch his season last year, he was our second best mid last year and is still in our best 4 or 5 mids quite easily with Taranto and Hopper there.
With Taranto and Hopper it doesnt mean he can't play mid and has to play more as a forward.
What it should mean is he plays his customary role rotating thru the midfield with more time on the bench resting his aging legs.The line game management comes to mind.

Im not sure what planet people think he is a better fwd option than Bolton, Martin Taranto even Sonsie all rotating fwd and complimenting Riewoldt, Lynch Cumberland and M Rioli or possibly even Clarke.
Who really wants to see Cotch in the forward line at the expense of in particular Cumberland,Sonsie, Rioli, and Clarke. If MRJ or Cumberland get injured or have a poor run of form then surely in the name of development Clarke is next cab off the rank.

Why would we stop playing Rioli he just came of a season where not only were we getting the pressure and defence but he was beginning to also become a decent offensive weapon rounding his game out.

Cumberland played in 8 games last year he averaged 2.4 goals for the 8 games and showed he was an attacking weapon. Balance that 2.4 over 22 games and its 50 odd goals a year. We have had just one small fwd this century who has kicked more than 40 goals in a season that was Bolton last year.

Its quite clear that a few of the old regulars are no longer the best options in certain roles so why play em in those roles at the expense of good kids coming thru.

I would be interested to see

I just don't get all the talk from the club and supporters about the need to play Cotchin as a forward.

Did no one watch his season last year, he was our second best mid last year and is still in our best 4 or 5 mids quite easily with Taranto and Hopper there.
With Taranto and Hopper it doesnt mean he can't play mid and has to play more as a forward.
What it should mean is he plays his customary role rotating thru the midfield with more time on the bench resting his aging legs.The line game management comes to mind.

Im not sure what planet people think he is a better fwd option than Bolton, Martin Taranto even Sonsie all rotating fwd and complimenting Riewoldt, Lynch Cumberland and M Rioli or possibly even Clarke.
Who really wants to see Cotch in the forward line at the expense of in particular Cumberland,Sonsie, Rioli, and Clarke. If MRJ or Cumberland get injured or have a poor run of form then surely in the name of development Clarke is next cab off the rank.

Why would we stop playing Rioli he just came of a season where not only were we getting the pressure and defence but he was beginning to also become a decent offensive weapon rounding his game out.

Cumberland played in 8 games last year he averaged 2.4 goals for the 8 games and showed he was an attacking weapon. Balance that 2.4 over 22 games and its 50 odd goals a year. We have had just one small fwd this century who has kicked more than 40 goals in a season that was Bolton last year.

Its quite clear that a few of the old regulars are no longer the best options in certain roles so why play em in those roles at the expense of good kids coming thru.

I would be interested in see Cotchin stats based on minutes in the midfield Considering how much time he spent in the midfield his stats would be better than most but that doesn’t mean he was the best midfielder

 

[Football Tragic]

I think Jack and Cotch still have more to give but we can not longer rely upon them to hold up the side like they once did. Both of them are now impact players. Cotch from the bench and Jack as a decoy forward. Both players will still have their moments throughout games and the season but they can not be expected to be the sustained difference. That mantle has now fallen to players like Bolton, Lynch, Prestia, Grimes and the two new recruits.

The scary fact is that Prestia, Grimes and even Lynch are now becoming injury prone so our next layer needs to step up. This is why it was music to my ears to hear Jack say that the club will be resting older players more regularly (aka Geelong last year) to both give them more longevity but also develop the list. If Jack, Cotch, Tarrant, Pickett, Grimes, Broad, Lynch and Nank all play around 15 games this season, it would open up space for others and give them much needed recuperation periods to be set for the bigger games/finals.

So why I agree with some here that Jack and Cotch are nearing the end, they still have more to offer this year as long as they are not expecting to play every game.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

might be unpopular, but KMac has to be in trouble...
Gut running just can't be seen as enough anymore given we need to improve to challenge for a flag.
Marlion on one wing, then one of Short/HRS/Clarke/Brown on the other.

 

[daftmike]

I think Gibcus plays this year as soon as hes over his injury. The demons talls were just killing us in the air. We need someone who can do a job on them when they go forward. Its unacceptable. Grimes not tall enough to play on these monsters. Balta cant play on 3 talls at once. He desperately needs a second athletic lockdown defender next to him. Whether we give Miller another shot down back, or Gibcus post injury. We can't allow it to happen again.

Young is not good enough to do it.

The other problem is our forward pressure. I feel like this is an easy fix however. If the offensive stars. i.e, bolton and cumbo dont apply defensive pressure, then cumbo gets dropped and bolton goes into the midfield. and we move Judson Clark down there or whoever it needs to be. D Rioli can go forward even. I feel as if its fixable, we have plenty of star power.

im confident our forward entries will improve, and as for JAck, he really needs to impact games as a key target, otherwise id give samson ryan a shot at his role and have him chop out ruck for Nank.

We really need to fix our defense though. Forward pressure and our talls in defence. SHows how much we need balta back there.

 

[lumpinee]

little or no impact expected this year from me are,Grimes,JR,Cotchin,McIntosh along with Broad and Vlaustin and Pickett to a lesser extent

done theyre all for this club and more and before a balls bounced i think its unfair to expect these guys to have the impact and influence they once commanded,it wont be happening as often as it once did,thats a guarantee
the replacements in due course ? Gibcus,Miller/Sampson,Sonsie,Clarke,Browne etc have to be given time to adjust just like the above
we should make the 8 but it will be a lot like last year i think with sustained periods of frustration with new guys and younger guys finding theyre feet
amongst the experienced crew
our best footballers are well into theyre late 20's early 30's now,so really it comes down to Bakes,D.Rioli,Short,Taranto,Hopper,Bolton,JGTI and the like
to step up to that next tier,these guys are in theyre prime years now

 

[tora tora tora]

I think Gibcus plays this year as soon as hes over his injury. The demons talls were just killing us in the air. We need someone who can do a job on them when they go forward. Its unacceptable. Grimes not tall enough to play on these monsters. Balta cant play on 3 talls at once. He desperately needs a second athletic lockdown defender next to him. Whether we give Miller another shot down back, or Gibcus post injury. We can't allow it to happen again.

Young is not good enough to do it.

The other problem is our forward pressure. I feel like this is an easy fix however. If the offensive stars. i.e, bolton and cumbo dont apply defensive pressure, then cumbo gets dropped and bolton goes into the midfield. and we move Judson Clark down there or whoever it needs to be. D Rioli can go forward even. I feel as if its fixable, we have plenty of star power.

im confident our forward entries will improve, and as for JAck, he really needs to impact games as a key target, otherwise id give samson ryan a shot at his role and have him chop out ruck for Nank.

We really need to fix our defense though. Forward pressure and our talls in defence. SHows how much we need balta back there.

Round 1 Last year was Tarrant, gibcus and Balta. Grimes and Broad. Broad had quite a good year. I think he might go round Longer than Grimes.
Baker and Rioli. It looked good on paper. Grimes was good in 21 but he ended up being just a defender in 22.
Grimes can play on smalls.
Balta was on Grundy for one of his goals. Young was just out positioned for one goal. Grundy. Young being selected over bigoa? Do they rate Young?
Balta needs to channel Baker's attitude.
But ball coming in too easy not much a defender can do.
Pressure all over the ground is required. Cotch can be good at that up fwd. If we win games no dramas. Knowing Richmond we'll make it hard to win.
I think the last couple of years we win the fwd 50 entries just need to be scoring goals. Game plan of 2017. One key fwd.
Time to hit player's on the lead.

I think our centre clearances aren't bad either. Must translate into goals.

 

[tiger_tough]

Last crack at it before next Thursday. No Tarrant or Short by the sounds of it so Miller comes in to play back and Samson 2nd ruck/fwd for mine. Graham and Ross a little underdone and on the fringe anyway so Judson gets a gig. Give Sonsie a couple of weeks in the VFL after an interrupted pre season.

FB: Miller, Grimes, Vlastuin
HB: Rioli, Balta, Baker
C: Pickett, Hopper, McIntosh
HF: Bolton, Lynch, Dusty
FF: Cumberland, Riewoldt, MRJ
R: Nankervis, Prestia, Taranto
I/C: Cotchin, Broad, Clarke, Ryan
Sub: Graham
Emg: Ross, Ralphsmith, Dow, Sonsie

 

[energyquant]

Last crack at it before next Thursday. No Tarrant or Short by the sounds of it so Miller comes in to play back and Samson 2nd ruck/fwd for mine. Graham and Ross a little underdone and on the fringe anyway so Judson gets a gig. Give Sonsie a couple of weeks in the VFL after an interrupted pre season.

FB: Miller, Grimes, Vlastuin
HB: Rioli, Balta, Baker
C: Pickett, Hopper, McIntosh
HF: Bolton, Lynch, Dusty
FF: Cumberland, Riewoldt, MRJ
R: Nankervis, Prestia, Taranto
I/C: Cotchin, Broad, Clarke, Ryan
Sub: Graham
Emg: Ross, Ralphsmith, Dow, Sonsie

Looks about right. Soldo might get the nod over Tyrone Vickery Samson Ryan in week 1. I also doubt Graham is the sub as speed in the second half will be high value, so Ralphsmith for me.

McIntosh and Pickett will both play defensive roles on the wing. We'll be a bit cautious bringing it out of defence, to give us time to set up behind the ball.

The forward line looks great on paper, but I'm concerned about 2 new mids trying to connect with a forward line that hasn't ever really played together. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think we'll see a lot of chaos in our F50 (even without George).

 

[db26]

Cotchin is no forward simple as that he comes of the pine and goes in the guts let's not fool ourselves.

 

[tiger_tough]

Looks about right. Soldo might get the nod over Tyrone Vickery Samson Ryan in week 1. I also doubt Graham is the sub as speed in the second half will be high value, so Ralphsmith for me.

McIntosh and Pickett will both play defensive roles on the wing. We'll be a bit cautious bringing it out of defence, to give us time to set up behind the ball.

The forward line looks great on paper, but I'm concerned about 2 new mids trying to connect with a forward line that hasn't ever really played together. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think we'll see a lot of chaos in our F50 (even without George).

All reasonable apart from the Vickery comparison.

 

[YeOldTiger]

AFL says this will be our lineup:

 

[tiger_tough]

AFL says this will be our lineup:

View attachment 1624414

Hate it.

 

[Coach_Required]

might be unpopular, but KMac has to be in trouble...
Gut running just can't be seen as enough anymore given we need to improve to challenge for a flag.
Marlion on one wing, then one of Short/HRS/Clarke/Brown on the other.

Yeah, watched him on the weekend and i know it was a preseason match but he just looked to be struggling to keep up to me, gave away dumb free kicks too because he was a step behind all the time. One to watch this year I reckon.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Team for this week’s game - assuming none of our injury affected or underdone guys play:

B: Baker. Balta. Broad
HB: Rioli. Grimes. Vlastuin
C: McIntosh. Hopper. J Clarke
HF: Bolton. Riewoldt. MRJ
F: Martin. Lynch. Cumberland
R: Nank. Taranto. Cotchin
I/C: T. Dow. Ryan. Young Soldo
Sub: Ralphsmith

Then assuming at least one of Pickett, Prestia, Graham play, in which case Ryan won’t play.

Then with the tactical sub we just decide on who to bench out of the most useless tall: Soldo or Young.




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[Wooden Robot]

Cotchin is no forward simple as that he comes of the pine and goes in the guts let's not fool ourselves.

Geelong worked it out last year.
Better off keeping Selwood as a midfielder and giving him 65-70% game time to maximise effectiveness.
No use giving him 90% game time and trying to slot him into a forward pocket or on the wing.

 

[Jammo1111]

Unfortunately I think you are right about Jack. Most really good tall forwards fall away very quickly. It’s like all the smashing the packs and getting jumped on by the defenders suddenly takes its toll on the body. I hope the he walks away on his own terms otherwise he probably should be dropped. Cotch could sit on the bench until his 300th the retire I think both should not have been talked into another year. Retire like the champions they are

Nearly won the game for us against Brisbane. Can’t leave Jack out yet.

 

[Jammo1111]

Hate it.

In that AFL article it lists each clubs injuries. Ours is easily the worst. Miller has to play backline on one of the Carlton big men.

 

[bc27]

My personal view is that Dusty as a permanent forward isn’t ideal.

Backman can cover a permanent forwards much easier than if he starts mid and drifts foward when he knows to get dangerous.

Let him play mid and drift forward. The permanent forward role I don’t think let’s him play to his full effect.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I hope I am wrong, but there's some - if not a relatively strong - likelihood one of, or both of, Jack and Cotch will have little impact and become detrimental to the overall team.
I just hope that we learned aour lesson from last season and if we are in a position to be contending, we do the right thing and overlook them at selection and don't give them the Edwards treatment and keep playing them for the sake of it.
If their form warrants selection, pick them by all means. But if it doesn't, for the sake of the team, don't pick them.
It's the right thing by the team and also themselves.

 

[Grrr]

Team for this week’s game - assuming none of our injury affected or underdone guys play:

B: Baker. Balta. Broad
HB: Rioli. Grimes. Vlastuin
C: McIntosh. Hopper. J Clarke
HF: Bolton. Riewoldt. MRJ
F: Martin. Lynch. Cumberland
R: Nank. Taranto. Cotchin
I/C: T. Dow. Ryan. Young Soldo
Sub: Ralphsmith

Then assuming at least one of Pickett, Prestia, Graham play, in which case Ryan won’t play.

Then with the tactical sub we just decide on who to bench out of the most useless tall: Soldo or Young.




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Jack can't play CHF, can't compete against multiple or big bodies any more.

 

[sregit]

Jack can't play CHF, can't compete against multiple or big bodies any more.

Load of garbage. If Balta and Nank clear that ball in the last quarter of the final in Brisbane as they should have, we would have won due to JR’s exploits. Why would you right him off so quickly. Clueless. See how the season pans out before righting him off. If he is uncompetitive then call time on him. You don’t find 40+ goal kickers on trees.

 

[daftmike]

Grimes Miller Vlastuin
Baker Balta Rioli
Clarke Prestia McIntosh
Short Cumberland Taranto
Lynch Ryan Rioli

Nank Hopper Martin

Broad Cotchin Bolton(on bench to show shorts position) XXX

 

[Grrr]

Load of garbage. If Balta and Nank clear that ball in the last quarter of the final in Brisbane as they should have, we would have won due to JR’s exploits. Why would you right him off so quickly. Clueless. See how the season pans out before righting him off. If he is uncompetitive then call time on him. You don’t find 40+ goal kickers on trees.

I haven't written him off, he would be in my best 22 but playing third tall using his footy smarts to get his goals, much like he did last season.

I wrote him off as a CHF in 2021, when we spent half the games unable to get the ball past the centre line due to having nobody able to compete in the air up the ground. Jack tried but he could no longer launch himself into packs like he used to and can no longer compete against two players like CHF's have to. For some reason that year, Lynch was stationed inside 50 for most of the year. Jack was epic in that regard in 2017-18 but Lynch and getting older means he plays a different role.

Hence Balta was used as a CHF early in the season, when that stopped working Lynch came good and was immense. Jack can still occasionally get up the the wing to help out but was used primarily deep and got most of his goals on the lead or when one on one where he is still hard to beat. His 1%ers were the highest of his career last season, his contested marking 1/3 of Lynch's, which shows he is still working hard but in a different way.