List Mgmt. State of the list

[Cap]

As a coach?

I disagree, he was elite for a few years, and he changed the face of the game.

Craig didn't have two things. A balanced list and luck.

In the end the balanced list was his own doing due to his dislike of trade week. But i have no doubt with the 17/18 list (in Craigs prime) a flag would have been had.

 

[Rotayjay]

You see now it’s easy to write that - core group are good enough to give the flag a shake. It’s a common view from supporters who naturally rate their own side.

All evidence would point to the contrary though.

If we take 2015 as a start point:
2015 - smashed in a semi
2016 - smashed in a semi
2017 - smashed in a grand
2018 - didn’t make finals
2019 - 1-2 not looking close

So I dunno, I certainly thought the group was good enough, I’m not so sure right now.

They’ve been good enough to put themselves into a position to challenge - but have they actually challenged? I don’t think they have if we’re honest.

Are you saying 2017 wasn't a real flag challenge Pete?

 

[Tex200]

Are you saying 2017 wasn't a real flag challenge Pete?

They’d certainly put themselves in a position to challenge - the question I was asking was did they actually challenge?

They were there on the day but were smashed in an eerily similar way that they were in 15 and 16.

The current core have been very static which is of course the continuity policy. So they need to own the body of work starting 2015.

I don’t think they’ve challenged, I think they have only been consistent in showing they are capable of getting into a position to challenge - but that’s as far as it goes.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

I don't think we should take any lessons from one of the least successful and most poorly run clubs in the AFL

Reckon that you kinda missed the point.

 

[skam85]

As player and coach the guy is unbelievably competitive but fails going all the way probably because he is too conservative

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Not to go full Pyke and blame the players here, but in 2005 Ricciuto getting suspended on the eve of the finals was dumb and highly likely cost us the St Kilda game and a subsequent home prelim.

2006 was a combination of Biglands going down, Cousins going nuts and a lack of composure by the players in the second half.

We were a couple of non-Craig things from back-to-back Grand Finals against a team whom at that time were our bunnies.

 

[Elite Crow]

Not to go full Pyke and blame the players here, but in 2005 Ricciuto getting suspended on the eve of the finals was dumb and highly likely cost us the St Kilda game and a subsequent home prelim.

2006 was a combination of Biglands going down, Cousins going nuts and a lack of composure by the players in the second half.

We were a couple of non-Craig things from back-to-back Grand Finals against a team whom at that time were our bunnies.

Craig not tagging Harvey didn’t help

 

[BunjiMac]

Craig not tagging Harvey didn’t help

I'm not wanting to pick on Craig here, but that's what separates good from Elite in terms of coaching.

Its not as simple as saying the Clarkson would have tagged Harvey, because he may not have. However we end up talking about the moves he did make, not the moves he didn't.

They just have a knack of taking the calculated gamble at the right time which ends up changing the game. This is often not a statistically reasoned move but one that seems based on gut feel. They have an immense feel for the game that the other coaches don't have.

Pyke definitely doesn't have this.

 

[TexForPM]

My point is that you guys shouldn't do what a poorly run club has done, because its left us crap for a number of years. Right now the crows arent prioritising the next generation, which is what the blues did, and we ended up with a list devoid of any talent and have had to try and develop a bunch of youngsters around spuds like casboult ever since. Should be getting a young ruck in while Sauce is still there, or ur next ruck will have to learn off the blokes like Obrien

We have one of the best lists in the AFL.

The mid forward link isn't gelling right now, but it will.

Your analysis of our ruck and Fogarty is your only good point.

We have managed our list exponentially better than you.
Carlton supporters are deluded, it's not your fault but you are. Your club is a shambles your green shoots better pay off or you'll be shit for another 5 years.

Another poster put up games loss record.
How can you come here trying to inform us on list management when one of your best players has nearly lost 200 games.

Run along now

 

[Tex200]

Not to go full Pyke and blame the players here, but in 2005 Ricciuto getting suspended on the eve of the finals was dumb and highly likely cost us the St Kilda game and a subsequent home prelim.

2006 was a combination of Biglands going down, Cousins going nuts and a lack of composure by the players in the second half.

We were a couple of non-Craig things from back-to-back Grand Finals against a team whom at that time were our bunnies.

Agreed. 4 goals up at half time, at home, kicking with a gale in the 3rd...blowing that is on the players.

 

[maxlilly]

Agreed. 4 goals up at half time, at home, kicking with a gale in the 3rd...blowing that is on the players.

It's the same story with most of our finals.
The ones that hurt the most were against collingwood when we were the better team but we were out coached in the second half to lose home finals

 

[DJ75]

In terms of Neil Craig I think there were a few issues.

1. He revolutionised the game with his ability to teach a zone defence
2. He was a one trick pony. Once other teams caught on to the zone, he had nothing else.
3. He was ridiculously stubborn. His attitude still negatively impacts the club today - back them in, conservative approach, 'professional' rather than passionate approach.
4. He was also very, very unlucky. Injuries, illness and cheating (WC were 100% drug fuelled) all cost him a premiership.

 

[marty36]

In terms of Neil Craig I think there were a few issues.

1. He revolutionised the game with his ability to teach a zone defence
2. He was a one trick pony. Once other teams caught on to the zone, he had nothing else.
3. He was ridiculously stubborn. His attitude still negatively impacts the club today - back them in, conservative approach, 'professional' rather than passionate approach.
4. He was also very, very unlucky. Injuries, illness and cheating (WC were 100% drug fuelled) all cost him a premiership.

If he had won a premiership or two, you probably wouldn't have said all the negative stuff and you are saying luck cost him

 

[jackster83]

This year's list management is going to be crucial, especially as we took the easy way out last year and recontracted the likes of Mackay, Otten, Wilson and Hunter.

In addition to those four, we've got Douglas, Jacobs and Betts all on their last legs and doubts over McPherson's body, though I think they'll give him at least one more year.

We look like having three decent picks but not much after that. Other than Butts, our rookie list looks like a big bundle of meh, so doubt we'll have multiple rookie upgrades.

Might be time to start looking for some more cat B rookies that we can start developing in anticipation of a big list turnover in the next 18 months.

 

[Betts are off]

This year's list management is going to be crucial, especially as we took the easy way out last year and recontracted the likes of Mackay, Otten, Wilson and Hunter.

In addition to those four, we've got Douglas, Jacobs and Betts all on their last legs and doubts over McPherson's body, though I think they'll give him at least one more year.

We look like having three decent picks but not much after that. Other than Butts, our rookie list looks like a big bundle of meh, so doubt we'll have multiple rookie upgrades.

Might be time to start looking for some more cat B rookies that we can start developing in anticipation of a big list turnover in the next 18 months.

I can't wait to cut the deadwood!

 

[King Elvis]

Not to go full Pyke and blame the players here, but in 2005 Ricciuto getting suspended on the eve of the finals was dumb and highly likely cost us the St Kilda game and a subsequent home prelim.

2006 was a combination of Biglands going down, Cousins going nuts and a lack of composure by the players in the second half.

We were a couple of non-Craig things from back-to-back Grand Finals against a team whom at that time were our bunnies.

Hentschel doing his knee.

Knights going down while absolutely dominating that final against Collingwood.

Bloody Parvo virus.

He was bloody unlucky.

 

[maxlilly]

This year's list management is going to be crucial, especially as we took the easy way out last year and recontracted the likes of Mackay, Otten, Wilson and Hunter.

In addition to those four, we've got Douglas, Jacobs and Betts all on their last legs and doubts over McPherson's body, though I think they'll give him at least one more year.

We look like having three decent picks but not much after that. Other than Butts, our rookie list looks like a big bundle of meh, so doubt we'll have multiple rookie upgrades.

Might be time to start looking for some more cat B rookies that we can start developing in anticipation of a big list turnover in the next 18 months.

That's the problem though, we need to replace 7-8 guys on our list next year and we only have 4 picks. And maybe a few rookies.

 

[GreyCrow]

That's the problem though, we need to replace 7-8 guys on our list next year and we only have 4 picks. And maybe a few rookies.

Dont you have as many picks as you have need? They just come after the rest?

 

[maxlilly]

Dont you have as many picks as you have need? They just come after the rest?

Yes your right.
Pick 108, come on down

 

[CrowinNT]

Hentschel doing his knee.
.

Always feel so sad when Trent’s name is mentioned
He didn’t just do a knee though
A very significant injury to a lad that had so much talent

 

[Nemisis]

Not to go full Pyke and blame the players here, but in 2005 Ricciuto getting suspended on the eve of the finals was dumb and highly likely cost us the St Kilda game and a subsequent home prelim.

2006 was a combination of Biglands going down, Cousins going nuts and a lack of composure by the players in the second half.

We were a couple of non-Craig things from back-to-back Grand Finals against a team whom at that time were our bunnies.

Cousin played like Superman in the second half ... sniff, sniff!?! AFC very unlucky that day.

 

[Rotayjay]

They’d certainly put themselves in a position to challenge - the question I was asking was did they actually challenge?

They were there on the day but were smashed in an eerily similar way that they were in 15 and 16.

The current core have been very static which is of course the continuity policy. So they need to own the body of work starting 2015.

I don’t think they’ve challenged, I think they have only been consistent in showing they are capable of getting into a position to challenge - but that’s as far as it goes.

I think you and I disagree there. In my view, if Richmond had a bad day and we had a good day, we would have won the flag that day. Remember all the pre-game analysis abd how well we'd played in the QF and PF? Everyone was tipping the Crows and we could have been up by three goals in the 2nd if Betts or Lynch converted.

 

[MrBarry]

As player and coach the guy is unbelievably competitive but fails going all the way probably because he is too conservative

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He failed in 05 and 06, because as has been previously said - the number of factors that went against us was mental.... We lost 4 or 5 key players in the last few games of the season in 2006. 2007 onward I would agree that he didn't make the right calls and lost his shine quickly.

 

[MrBarry]

I would love to know if the club has reviewed the draft notes of the Dangers et al and ensure we don't make the same mistakes again.

Lever and Dangerfield have some fairly obvious similarities, but im sure there'd be something in it if they did investigate it.

We got 8 years of service out of Dangerfield, hardly a mistake.

 

[Tex200]

I think you and I disagree there. In my view, if Richmond had a bad day and we had a good day, we would have won the flag that day. Remember all the pre-game analysis abd how well we'd played in the QF and PF? Everyone was tipping the Crows and we could have been up by three goals in the 2nd if Betts or Lynch converted.

The issue I have:

2015 SF - had a really bad day
2016 R23 with top 4 spot on the line - had a really bad day
2016 SF - had a really bad day
2017 GF - had a really bad day
2018 - had a really bad season

Seeing a pattern there?

 

[Scorpus]

The issue I have:

2015 SF - had a really bad day
2016 R23 with top 4 spot on the line - had a really bad day
2016 SF - had a really bad day
2017 GF - had a really bad day
2018 - had a really bad season

Seeing a pattern there?

"It's not a trend" - Don Pyke