Roast Statement on Umpires

[Noidenous]

Spend some time reviewing the frees paid to WCE and you see a theme - they make it happen:

- they drop the knees when tackled and fall forward whilst locking the tacklers arm against them to draw the "in the back" free,
- they lever the tacklers arms high flipping them up over the shoulders to gain a "high contact" free,
- they wobble the head in a manner that has been well rehearsed (see Darling) so it looks as if there has been high contact
- they appear as if they are trying to get rid of the ball when they are caught in a HTB free
I could go on but the fact is that WCE are not the recipient of the most number of free kicks in the AFL (or the greatest positive margin) by accident.
They have rehearsed this over and over until they have it fairly believable.

At last a sane voice amongst the frenzy-whipping simpletons.

Couple this with some other facts;

- There's three different umpires who aren't able to confer with the boundary/goal umpires for purposes of free kicks in general play.
- The same three umpires don't have an elevated 360 degrees view of the field.
- The same three umpires apparently have to be able to notice every single offense on the ground in order to appease every single club.
- The same three umpires have coaches who highlight things they're missing at each break. eg. particular players being consistently held at stoppages where the field umpires can't see.
- The same three umpires are obliged to pay what they do see.
- Even with all the vantage points provided by the number of cameras at the ground, none of them capture the exact angle seen by the same three umpires (granted, it may happen occasionally if the umpire is standing directly in front of the contest shown).
- We use the largest fields of any free-flowing ball sport.
- We allow the highest number of players of any free-flowing ball sport (except Calcio, but it virtually has no rules anyway).

Absolutely nobody wanted to make a point of Geary ducking for a high-contact free in the square at the start of the last quarter for obvious reasons. It's far too easy to claim things are against you than to accept a loss. Nobody bitched about umpiring to anywhere near the same level during '09/10 for obvious reasons.

If posters here are impeccable adjudicators of all things, go and become umpires. We'll see how long people last, especially out in the sticks where security is at its most lax. Ever seen a mob swarming a local ground during finals to rain hell on the umpires because they can't understand the fact their side's playing in an undisciplined fashion?

 

[goodie23]

If posters here are impeccable adjudicators of all things, go and become umpires. We'll see how long people last, especially out in the sticks where security is at its most lax. Ever seen a mob swarming a local ground during finals to rain hell on the umpires because they can't understand the fact their side's playing in an undisciplined fashion?

Been there, done that. My temper gave out just before my body did after six seasons.

 

[Squizz]

I never understand why people make comparisons to local footy. AFL is meant to be the elite level. Oh no, lets just say they've got a tough job and accept that St Kilda gets regularly screwed over because we aren't very good. Yeah, the decisions that were incorrect were because we were undisciplined

FFS - they paid a free to Hurn in the second quarter when he dropped the mark without any contact - think Milne in the filth game (no free evident - he missed!). Immediately followed by a free against Ray who'd fumbled (50/50). Immediately followed by another marginal free to Darling (Riewoldt looking on in envy). Goal from a chain of three 50/50 frees (at best).

Umpires miss some frees, which is annoying but understandable, but then you get a clown like Wenn who concocts one and then rushes over to pay another one (which lacked consistency with dozens of other contests during the game).

 

[Plugger35]

AFL umpiring is corrupt.

 

[Noidenous]

I never understand why people make comparisons to local footy. AFL is meant to be the elite level. Oh no, lets just say they've got a tough job and accept that St Kilda gets regularly screwed over because we aren't very good. Yeah, the decisions that were incorrect were because we were undisciplined

FFS - they paid a free to Hurn in the second quarter when he dropped the mark without any contact - think Milne in the filth game (no free evident - he missed!). Immediately followed by a free against Ray who'd fumbled (50/50). Immediately followed by another marginal free to Darling (Riewoldt looking on in envy). Goal from a chain of three 50/50 frees (at best).

Umpires miss some frees, which is annoying but understandable, but then you get a clown like Wenn who concocts one and then rushes over to pay another one (which lacked consistency with dozens of other contests during the game).

Saad's free against was for the same reason Stanley gave one away early on.

Back to the flight of the ball, as evidenced by the ball dropping in front of Hurn's eyes and Saad physically unable to follow the ball with his head once it dropped.

Two undisciplined acts. If Saad had've turned and gone the spoil with his left arm, no problem. Let's not even mention the completely unnecessary little kick at the end, eh?

The local footy link is pointing out how difficult a job it actually is, even when the game is moving at half the pace and sometimes for half the length of the game (reserves, no time-on). There's a lot of armchair-riding softcocks who believe the worst at the drop of a hat and aren't able to engage in the simple of act of placing oneself in sympatico.

 

[goodie23]

There was no contact in the Saad free kick, I had a good view of that one. I think it was a simple case of the umpiring jumping the gun with the whistle and not backing down. While it was a bad call, that's what umpires are taught to do.

A mistake like that I can forgive and forget. Double standards are the reason I was ropable.

 

[Squizz]

Saad's free against was for the same reason Stanley gave one away early on.

Completely different. Stanley never tried to look for the ball and made contact. Saad took his eyes off Hurn (and back towards the flight of the ball) and fresh-aired him.

Let's not even mention the completely unnecessary little kick at the end, eh?

That's just a ridiculous comment. A little kick? You really are an umpire - just make it up as you go along!

 

[Noidenous]

That's just a ridiculous comment. A little kick? You really are an umpire - just make it up as you go along!

Look at the last frame of your select collage.

If no contact was made in the attempt to spoil, what was Ahmed trying to do with his right leg immediately after the ball spilled? Which action actually made contact?

Where do you think the umpire was standing when this occurred, considering it was out on the flank? The same side as the camera?

Can you see the difference in attempting to spoil with the left arm instead of the right and where the body would be facing? Do you think the umpire would've had any issue if that had taken place with a running jump?

 

[CHBench]

He cant see Geischen apparently he is on annual leave for 8 weeks?

He's useless anyway but you gotta laugh at these head honchos taking annual leave during the season, what were they doing for the other 6 months of the year?! Didnt Andy D skip off to Mykanos last season or something?

 

[Defacto]

waters has to be removed from the rules committee. geisham with strong links to the eagles through west perth also has to be removed

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Get Andrew D on the footy show, show him a montage of Eagles ducking free's.
THen get a group of coaches on to say "Andrew is this what you want us to train the players to do"?
Yes or No.

 

[bob down]

FREE KICK DIFFERENTIAL 2013
+56 North Melbourne
+46 West Coast
+27 Geelong
+19 Essendon
+7 Melbourne
+1 Gold Coast
Even Adelaide
Even Collingwood
-1 Western Bulldogs
-6 Port Adelaide
-6 Brisbane Lions
-7 Sydney
-8 Fremantle
-12 Hawthorn
-13 Richmond
-23 GWS
-23 Carlton
-47 St Kilda

A massive 24 less than second last! I wonder if Grant Thomas is to blame?

FREE KICK DIFFERENTIAL 2011-2013
+214 West Coast
+112 Port Adelaide
+49 North Melbourne
+37 Collingwood
+ 37 Fremantle
+15 GWS Giants
-5 Carlton
-8 Western Bulldogs
-10 Essendon
-17 Sydney
-31 Geelong
-32 Gold Coast
-36 Richmond
-39 Adelaide Crows
-46 Hawthorn
-76 Melbourne
-81 Brisbane Lions
-83 St Kilda

All we need is for a West Coast player to become a quadriplegic and this will stop, I fear for the safety of their players.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Lads according to the Courier Mail we are seeking 'Clarification' about the free kicks last Sunday

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/a...pires-department/story-fnia6oss-1226661467808

 

[Half Back Pocket]

FREE KICK DIFFERENTIAL

A massive 24 less than second last! I wonder if Grant Thomas is to blame?

FREE KICK DIFFERENTIAL 2011-2013
+214 West Coast
+112 Port Adelaide
+49 North Melbourne
+37 Collingwood
+ 37 Fremantle
+15 GWS Giants
-5 Carlton
-8 Western Bulldogs
-10 Essendon
-17 Sydney
-31 Geelong
-32 Gold Coast
-36 Richmond
-39 Adelaide Crows
-46 Hawthorn
-76 Melbourne
-81 Brisbane Lions
-83 St Kilda

All we need is for a West Coast player to become a quadriplegic and this will stop, I fear for the safety of their players.

Hello Bob

Only 5 there that really buck the trend IMO, anything above 50 free kick differential is an issue

 

[The Punter]

For three quarters I found myself defending the umpires on Sunday, because I thought they were generally doing a good job. Except for that Saad free, for which I did not see contact made, I thought the game was umpired in pretty much the same way as Friday night.

Then it was turned on its head. The holding the ball rule was adjudicated differently, except for Butler in our goal square.

And. Dempster. Clearly. And. Demonstrably. Did. Not. Push. Priddis. In. The. Back.

Some mistakes are explainable and understandable. Think of Governments who push a little too hard in one direction, rush things because of other considerations, are hamstrung by parliamentary arithmetic.

Then other mistakes show a clear inability to do the job. This free kick, which gifted the Eagles a goal in a match they won by four points, was egregiously incorrect, and displayed in the umpire such a demonstration of poor judgement and an inability to see what it right in front of your face as to call into question his aptitude for the position in the game which he holds.

Personally the seachange in interpretation at three quarter time, which seems to have coincided by a whinge by the West Coast ruckman (who when he got a free kick early in the last quarter, simply turned to go to the top of his run up instead of looking at the umpire to confirm the details of the why the whistle was blown), was the most frustrating thing. I would have preferred the game have been umpired like that for the whole game, because that would have established how the game would have been umpired for its entirety. Turning the game on its head at three quarter time after St Kilda had tackled and hunted the Eagles for three quarters under well-established interpretations had an effect on the result, and if you think otherwise you are either ignorant or lying to yourself.

 

[tbarker]

For three quarters I found myself defending the umpires on Sunday, because I thought they were generally doing a good job. Except for that Saad free, for which I did not see contact made, I thought the game was umpired in pretty much the same way as Friday night.

Then it was turned on its head. The holding the ball rule was adjudicated differently, except for Butler in our goal square.

And. Dempster. Clearly. And. Demonstrably. Did. Not. Push. Priddis. In. The. Back.

Some mistakes are explainable and understandable. Think of Governments who push a little too hard in one direction, rush things because of other considerations, are hamstrung by parliamentary arithmetic.

Then other mistakes show a clear inability to do the job. This free kick, which gifted the Eagles a goal in a match they won by four points, was egregiously incorrect, and displayed in the umpire such a demonstration of poor judgement and an inability to see what it right in front of your face as to call into question his aptitude for the position in the game which he holds.

Personally the seachange in interpretation at three quarter time, which seems to have coincided by a whinge by the West Coast ruckman (who when he got a free kick early in the last quarter, simply turned to go to the top of his run up instead of looking at the umpire to confirm the details of the why the whistle was blown), was the most frustrating thing. I would have preferred the game have been umpired like that for the whole game, because that would have established how the game would have been umpired for its entirety. Turning the game on its head at three quarter time after St Kilda had tackled and hunted the Eagles for three quarters under well-established interpretations had an effect on the result, and if you think otherwise you are either ignorant or lying to yourself.

Spot on Punter and spot on to all the other posters so far. I have been too seething to post anything.

My ex-umpire mate reckons it is more of the same - one senior umpire destabilising the younger ones who got influenced by WCE players. The rot set in when we tackled hard in the second and third quarters and did not get a single HTB when there was clearly several.
I give up on the umpires and us. clearly they hate us and we have to cop it and move on and keep training for non-free kicks.
At least we have some fight and the young blokes learnt something and we keep a high draft pick (the only consolation).

 

[Baldur]

At last a sane voice amongst the frenzy-whipping simpletons.

Couple this with some other facts;

- There's three different umpires who aren't able to confer with the boundary/goal umpires for purposes of free kicks in general play.
- The same three umpires don't have an elevated 360 degrees view of the field.
- The same three umpires apparently have to be able to notice every single offense on the ground in order to appease every single club.
- The same three umpires have coaches who highlight things they're missing at each break. eg. particular players being consistently held at stoppages where the field umpires can't see.
- The same three umpires are obliged to pay what they do see.
- Even with all the vantage points provided by the number of cameras at the ground, none of them capture the exact angle seen by the same three umpires (granted, it may happen occasionally if the umpire is standing directly in front of the contest shown).
- We use the largest fields of any free-flowing ball sport.
- We allow the highest number of players of any free-flowing ball sport (except Calcio, but it virtually has no rules anyway).

Absolutely nobody wanted to make a point of Geary ducking for a high-contact free in the square at the start of the last quarter for obvious reasons. It's far too easy to claim things are against you than to accept a loss. Nobody bitched about umpiring to anywhere near the same level during '09/10 for obvious reasons.

If posters here are impeccable adjudicators of all things, go and become umpires. We'll see how long people last, especially out in the sticks where security is at its most lax. Ever seen a mob swarming a local ground during finals to rain hell on the umpires because they can't understand the fact their side's playing in an undisciplined fashion?

Please, mistakes are one thing, but when the same mistakes happen again and again, vrs one team and not the other. The simple fact is that West Coast are the best at staging and St Kilda is worst at staging.

My test is simple. If it looks dodgy first time I see it, it was dodgy. A person being paid to do a job must do it better then a person who watches for fun. The umpires we are getting are not up to the job. No if's, no buts, no maybes. Clearly the present method of selecting and training umpires is not working, a change is required.

It appears to me and most neutral fans that we are getting the rough end of the pineapple.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All we need is for a West Coast player to become a quadriplegic and this will stop, I fear for the safety of their players.

If the AFL want to fix it its dead easy.
All it takes is one statement by the AFL.
" A player causing head contact ( high tackle ) will give away a free kick ( as per normal procedures )"
"However all such contact will be reviewed after the game and any player causing impact to their own head will be subject to penalties as if another player had caused it "
ie ducking = intentional
head high = head high
impact = what it is.
In other words if you duck and get tackled high, you get suspended.

Then watch it just stop.

 

[sauce_head]

If the AFL want to fix it its dead easy.
All it takes is one statement by the AFL.
" A player causing head contact ( high tackle ) will give away a free kick ( as per normal procedures )"
"However all such contact will be reviewed after the game and any player causing impact to their own head will be subject to penalties as if another player had caused it "
ie ducking = intentional
head high = head high
impact = what it is.
In other words if you duck and get tackled high, you get suspended.

Then watch it just stop.

I had had the same idea, but its too subjective to work. And you just know that we would be the first to get pinged. Like we were the first to get pinged under the making contact to an injured player following the changes after reiwoldt was attacked by Brisbane.

 

[Marlin01]

If the AFL want to fix it its dead easy.
All it takes is one statement by the AFL.
" A player causing head contact ( high tackle ) will give away a free kick ( as per normal procedures )"
"However all such contact will be reviewed after the game and any player causing impact to their own head will be subject to penalties as if another player had caused it "
ie ducking = intentional
head high = head high
impact = what it is.
In other words if you duck and get tackled high, you get suspended.

Then watch it just stop.

Definitely.
Do you think Geary should go?

 

[goodie23]

Definitely.
Do you think Geary should go?

If he's guilty, sure. We'd lose a handful, you'd lose half your team.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Rooeys tackle on Shuey 20 meters out anyone?

 

[goodie23]

Most farcical element to come out of this is the attitude of some Eagles fans, ranging from those griping about Darling but conveniently ignoring Riewoldt (our defenders aren't as practised at dodginess so they hold more than chopping the arms which is more visible to the one-eyed) to the truly delusional who think the Eagles were stiffed for free kicks for three quarters and the final one was umpired fairly.

Now some bozos are complaining that we've gone whinging to the AFL whereas as a club we are long overdue to be asking questions. A cursory glance at the statistics can tell there's something awry, the Eagles game is the perfect catalyst.

 

[Plugger35]

Look at the last frame of your select collage.

If no contact was made in the attempt to spoil, what was Ahmed trying to do with his right leg immediately after the ball spilled? Which action actually made contact?

Where do you think the umpire was standing when this occurred, considering it was out on the flank? The same side as the camera?

Can you see the difference in attempting to spoil with the left arm instead of the right and where the body would be facing? Do you think the umpire would've had any issue if that had taken place with a running jump?

No surprise you're defending the shit umpiring but you would think the fact that everyone here disagrees with you might give you a clue that you're wrong.

Most farcical element to come out of this is the attitude of some Eagles fans, ranging from those griping about Darling but conveniently ignoring Riewoldt (our defenders aren't as practised at dodginess so they hold more than chopping the arms which is more visible to the one-eyed) to the truly delusional who think the Eagles were stiffed for free kicks for three quarters and the final one was umpired fairly.

Now some bozos are complaining that we've gone whinging to the AFL whereas as a club we are long overdue to be asking questions. A cursory glance at the statistics can tell there's something awry, the Eagles game is the perfect catalyst.

West Coast supporters are the most deluded and clueless supporters in the AFL, there are a few sensible ones but they are few and far between.

At least most neutral supporters are waking up to what we've been saying about the umpiring bias against us last year and this year, which is backed up by the free kick differential stats.

 

[blktreacle]

Does anyone know if theres video on youtube or anything of the end of the game. i want to see the "ball up" (holding the ball) decision in the goalsquare again.

Also did anyone else see the out on the full decision when wce kicked out from a behind and it missed everyone by about a foot and a half and the boundary umpire forgot?