Sydney's record in grand finals needs scrutinising

[Bartel84]

All the media are acting as the Geelong cheersquad.. ignoring the fact Sydney rolled over and turned up their toes yet again on the big stage!!!

GF losers have never been the focus. Look at when your tigers won no one obsessed over how shitty GWS or crows were. Tigers were just much better same with the cats this year.

Similar with port power in 07’

 

[MF]

We need to stop winning prelims.

Problem solved.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

They've won 2 out of 7 in the AFL era. We've won 4 from 7. Still amazed They've played as many gfs. But yeah, 3 in a row now. One more it'll be like Geelong 89-95 4 in a row.

Thats very true

But you have to look at the quality of the Cats opponent

89 Haw - champion side - played in 6-7 Gfs in a row

92-94 Eagles powerhouse side - and in 94 Geel only won 13 games - then a couple of miracle final wins - so they wernt much of a side

95 Carlton - one of the all time great sides 20-2 - and to show the gulf that year between the Blues and the rest . Geel beat Rich by nearly 100 pts in the PF ( and just like last years PF demolition by Melb over Geel ) if the winning team hadnt of taken the foot off the gas in the last qtr - then the margin in those PFs would have been about 110-120

Yet Carlton flogged Geel in the GF by about 60 pts - and that final margin absolutely flattered the Cats

So when you lose Grand Finals - i think you have to factor in the quality of the opposition

 

[PhatBoy]

Really?

Well it was a horrific grand final.

Good for Geelong.

But again the Victorian team smashed the non Victorian side yet again.

Carlton are more likely..... Hell north, hell bloody Essendon will get a flag before the dockers , if the Dockers actually get one in my lifetime

What do you mean yet again? Non Victorian teams have won 15 of the last 31 grand finals.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sydney's/South Melbourne's record in grand finals is pretty poor to say the least..

As South Melbourne... they won 3 grand finals while losing 8.

As Sydney... they've won 2 grand finals while losing 5.

Only Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton have lost as many or more grand finals.. and these are the three most successful clubs in V/AFL history when it comes to winning premierships.

Why haven't the Swans come under media scrutiny for their record in grand finals??

If you have any insights into how a club can be so extraordinary at making the finals year after year, can be good enough to make an impressive number of grand finals in that time - but just can't win many of those grand finals and in two instances has been smashed like they were wooden spooners, not one of the two most worthy contenders for the premiership - then I think the entire sporting world would love to hear them.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

We need to stop winning prelims.

Problem solved.

Bugger that. Go all the way! We need to stop making finals.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Thats very true

But you have to look at the quality of the Cats opponent

89 Haw - champion side - played in 6-7 Gfs in a row

92-94 Eagles powerhouse side - and in 94 Geel only won 13 games - then a couple of miracle final wins - so they wernt much of a side

95 Carlton - one of the all time great sides 20-2 - and to show the gulf that year between the Blues and the rest . Geel beat Rich by nearly 100 pts in the PF ( and just like last years PF demolition by Melb over Geel ) if the winning team hadnt of taken the foot off the gas in the last qtr - then the margin in those PFs would have been about 110-120

Yet Carlton flogged Geel in the GF by about 60 pts - and that final margin absolutely flattered the Cats

So when you lose Grand Finals - i think you have to factor in the quality of the opposition

Don't think many grand final opponents are easy. Sydney faced the three peat Hawks, an Bulldogs side that refused to lose (to this day I'd not seen such rapid handballing), and a pretty dominant Geelong side.

 

[Bartel84]

What do you mean yet again? Non Victorian teams have won 15 of the last 31 grand finals.

Exactly this narrative that non-vic teams are either disadvantaged or generally non performers in finals is a weird flex. There was a time not that long ago that interstate teams were dominating the big games (04,05,06 etc)

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Longmire has not copped enough media scrutiny for the Swans poor recent GF record (granted they were stiffed in 2016)

 

[Freomaniac]

Someone is up and about after the Grand Final! Enjoy the Cats flag, I know I enjoyed the Tigers in 17,19 and 20. Beat the Cats in all those years. Just need a Semi final win and we have the full set.

And an Elim final too

 

[Freomaniac]

What do you mean yet again? Non Victorian teams have won 15 of the last 31 grand finals.

Please name these 15 non Vic sides? I counted 12 or 13.

Only 2 have won since 2007

 

[Freomaniac]

Exactly this narrative that non-vic teams are either disadvantaged or generally non performers in finals is a weird flex. There was a time not that long ago that interstate teams were dominating the big games (04,05,06 etc)

Again.... Since cats belted port in that 2007 grand final. Only 2012 swans and 2018 eagles are the only non Vic side to win

 

[fs88]

Probably one of the worst threads I've ever seen. You cant compare this year's GF losing team to say the 2006 team.

 

[Bartel84]

Again.... Since cats belted port in that 2007 grand final. Only 2012 swans and 2018 eagles are the only non Vic side to win

So what do you think is the real reason that non vic teams have a disadvantage in the last 5 or so years? Before that you guys won your fair share

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Longmire has not copped enough media scrutiny for the Swans poor recent GF record (granted they were stiffed in 2016)

Not like there's a lot to say.

 

[PhatBoy]

Please name these 15 non Vic sides? I counted 12 or 13.

Only 2 have won since 2007

I may have misquoted my own figures and got wires crossed between runners up and winners

West Coast (92)
West Coast (94)
Adelaide (97)
Adelaide (98)
Brisbane (01)
Brisbane (02)
Brisbane (03)
Port Adelaide (04)
Sydney (05)
West Coast (06)
Sydney (12)
West Coast (18)

All victorious.

West Coast 91
Sydney 96
Port Adelaide 03
Brisbane 04
West Coast 05
Sydney 06
Port Adelaide 07
Fremantle 13
Sydney 14
West Coast 15
Sydney 16
Adelaide 17
GWS 19
Sydney 22

26 out of 64 grand finalists have been from interstate and at no stage have interstate sides had 50 per cent representation across the competition

 

[Hawksboy72]

Grand Final winning % (excluding replays)

Brisbane Lions = 3/4 (75.0%)
Melbourne = 13/18 (72.2%)
Hawthorn = 13/19 (68.4%)
Adelaide = 2/3 (66.7%)
Fitzroy = 8/13 (61.5%)
West Coast = 4/7 (57.1%)
Carlton = 16/29 (55.2%)
Richmond = 13/24 (54.2%)
Geelong = 10/19 (52.6%)
Essendon = 14/28 (50.0%) - 1897 and 1924 didn't have a GF.
Western Bulldogs = 2/4 (50.0%)
Port Adelaide = 1/2 (50.0%)
North Melbourne = 4/9 (44.4%)
Collingwood = 15/42 (35.7%)
Sydney = 5/18 (27.8%) - includes South Melbourne record
St Kilda = 1/7 (14.3%)
Fremantle = 0/1 (0.0%)
GWS = 0/1 (0.0%)

Not trying to kick the Swans while they're down, but it's always surprised me this record doesn't get talked about more in the media compared to Collingwood and St Kilda for example.

Do we not count Brisbane and Fitzroy as 1 team.
Great research by the way

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Do we not count Brisbane and Fitzroy as 1 team.
Great research by the way

Thanks.

No, they're counted separately by most statisticians.

 

[Daniel B]

Why haven't the Swans come under media scrutiny for their record in grand finals??

Probably for the same reason that the media ignored Sydney last week and for much of the season.

I recall in 2012 all talk was about how the Hawks lost, not how the Swans won. I suppose it's just home state focus.

But yes, as a supporter it does concern me how badly my side travels for grand finals.

 

[Old Man Jenkins]

If you have any insights into how a club can be so extraordinary at making the finals year after year, can be good enough to make an impressive number of grand finals in that time - but just can't win many of those grand finals and in two instances has been smashed like they were wooden spooners, not one of the two most worthy contenders for the premiership - then I think the entire sporting world would love to hear them.

I've mentioned this in another thread, in that it goes without saying that Sydney's performance in the grand final was unlike anything we'd seen from them all year.

It's almost like having to travel interstate and sleep in hotel rooms for both the grand final parade and grand final itself prove to be significantly disruptive to the preparation schedule of a professional football side.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I've mentioned this in another thread, in that it goes without saying that Sydney's performance in the grand final was unlike anything we'd seen from them all year.

It's almost like having to travel interstate and sleep in hotel rooms for both the grand final parade and grand final itself prove to be significantly disruptive to the preparation schedule of a professional football side.

Yes. Utterly baffling.

 

[Hawksboy72]

Thanks.

No, they're counted separately by most statisticians.

OK.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

What exactly is the relevance of south Melbourne losing a grand final in 1945 to Sydney’s performances in 2014 and 2016?

 

[PhatBoy]

I've mentioned this in another thread, in that it goes without saying that Sydney's performance in the grand final was unlike anything we'd seen from them all year.

It's almost like having to travel interstate and sleep in hotel rooms for both the grand final parade and grand final itself prove to be significantly disruptive to the preparation schedule of a professional football side.

The third last word you used.

Professional.

Their life for 6 months of the year, revolves around doing exactly that, minus the parade, every second week.

If you caught a train from western Sydney to Moore Park, you’d be sitting down for longer than the time you’d be on a plane from Sydney to Melbourne

 

[The King!]

The third last word you used.

Professional.

Their life for 6 months of the year, revolves around doing exactly that, minus the parade, every second week.

If you caught a train from western Sydney to Moore Park, you’d be sitting down for longer than the time you’d be on a plane from Sydney to Melbourne

I reckon its worth a point, how about we adjust the margin to 80