Sydney's record in grand finals needs scrutinising

[PhatBoy]

Sounds similar to arguments used by LeBron James fan boys.. trying to argue that LeBron James is better than Michael Jordan!

If you want anyone to take anything you say seriously, maybe don’t use the word ‘fanboy’ because someone argues in favour of something.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Getting to a Prelim let alone a Grand Final is very tough. It's highly competitive. Most clubs strive for a flag but getting to a Prelim alone has significant financial benefits. A losing GF record imo isn't worth of scrutiny. Getting there is in itself a "success". IMO the scrutiny should be on teams that never or rarely get to Prelims and Grand Finals. At least Sydney gets there.

Dogs prelim record from 85-16 (7 losses before finally winning) deserved the criticism it got. I get the point but I would very much rather lose the grand final and be apart of the week than giving the prelim a free ride because of those benefits. Even when we lost heavily to Melbourne, I was like at lest we got there and can win finals.

 

[PhatBoy]

Do you realise you are gatekeeping a word, AND assuming how everybody interprets the use of that word?

Classic symptom of Main Character Syndrome.

I realise it’s a f***ing stupid way to try and make a point, to use a word that’s been invented because the person using it finds it difficult to accept the person they’re debating with is simply arguing in favour of someone.

 

[Freomaniac]

I just think Sydney are similar to Geelong. Constantly making finals, battling it out, typically doing better than people think they will. They probably play a brand that is better suited to finals which is why they have made a few grand Finals as opposed to Geelong who more often than bombed (until now obviously) but I think the comparison is still just. Much like Geelong did this year, eventually things will click and they will rampage their way through, thye are still quite a young side.

I'm gonna get laughed for this as a dockers fan.

I wouldn't mind Freo having a decent finals run even if it doesn't get a flag

Cats had 11 years to wait between 2011- 2022. Saying that, their 2012-21 run wasn't bad. Could of won a flag in 2013, 2016, 2019 or 2020.

I wouldn't mind Freo getting a similar run like the cats from 2012-21.

I got mocked by many people on here. Port fans hate ken Hinkley.

But I wouldn't complain if Freo has a similar finals run like port from 2013-23. 3 or 4 or 5 finals wins over a 12 year period isn't too bad

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Clubs are free to market themselves however they want. If a club wants to claim that they’ve won 11 flags because they won nine in the VFA between 1898 and 1924 while other clubs were busy playing in a higher division they can. There’s no one policing it. But they might lose a bit of respect.

When you put it like that, Geelong won those flags in the VFA which was the highest division available at the time. In 20 years they won 7.

Not bad.

 

[RUNVS]

I know it could be bias talking, but I think with the addition of Grundy and Adams especially, along with our younger players getting another years worth of experience Sydney are in a great position to lose another Grand Final in 2024.

 

[lumpinee]

why whitewash history and my earlier comment today on the RFC being challenged on winning the GF in the 1920's by the Collingwood FC ? what are you in denial that it did actually happen ? geezuz grow up,ya becoming like YT and the AFL,censoring the truth for your own narrative ? grow up

what was my comparison to the pies njoying theyre mad GF celebrations on the monday then being informed they were to play the GF
again 5 days later to really decide who the winner was too close to the bone & too hard for ya to swallow? please

 

[Seedsfan]

why whitewash history and my earlier comment today on the RFC being challenged on winning the GF in the 1920's by the Collingwood FC ? what are you in denial that it did actually happen ? geezuz grow up,ya becoming like YT and the AFL,censoring the truth for your own narrative ? grow up

what was my comparison to the pies njoying theyre mad GF celebrations on the monday then being informed they were to play the GF
again 5 days later to really decide who the winner was too close to the bone & too hard for ya to swallow? please

lol you win by the rules of the day.

We accept that it’s fair that in 03 Brisbane lost the qualifying final and got a double chance beating Collingwood in the GF and same as the Hawks losing to the Eagles in the 2015 qualifying final and getting a second chance and beating them in the GF.

If Richmond wanted the double chance in the 20s they should have earned it.

 

[lumpinee]

lost a qualifying final ? yeah and ? you know its qualifying n not elim yeah ? you do know the difference
the challenge GF is/was a scam designed in collusion btwn the cheating VFL & CFC at the time,doesnt matter where you finish
in the top 4,5,6 or 8 if you win on GF day you deserve the flag,id like to of seen Richmond challenge Brisbane to another final
after the goal t/over back in '22,love to of seen Brisbanes reaction or Collingwood get another chance @ sydney following the prelim loss in '22 lol,what a load of baloney

 

[Seedsfan]

lost a qualifying final ? yeah and ? you know its qualifying n not elim yeah ? you do know the difference
the challenge GF is/was a scam designed in collusion btwn the cheating VFL & CFC at the time,doesnt matter where you finish
in the top 4,5,6 or 8 if you win on GF day you deserve the flag,id like to of seen Richmond challenge Brisbane to another final
after the goal t/over back in '22,love to of seen Brisbanes reaction or Collingwood get another chance @ sydney following the prelim loss in '22 lol,what a load of baloney

You have NFI buddy. The challenge system was there to give the top side a double chance

That is a lot fairer than the Hawks finishing below West Coast losing to them in a final yet living to fight another day.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

It’s an atrocious record.

 

[Wolfgang West]

It’s an atrocious record.

Really though is it any worse than finishing top 4 and going out in straight sets in consecutive years ? That's pretty atrocious in itself.
All debatable I suppose. Could not give a stuff about the current GF record tbh as It is the next one they make that is the one that counts. Six GF appearances in 17 yrs is an average of playing in one every 3 yrs. Tells me we give ourselves pretty goood looks on a regular basis. We will salute once again very soon.

 

[Seeds]

Nah. Spoons you already know you're s**t. Losing a granny you think you're not s**t for a brief moment then have to head to Harvey Norman for a new TV

Losing a grand final doesnt make you shit.

 

[Seeds]

Agree. Winning GFs is all about luck on the day. This year it went our way. A one off event doesn't determine who is better.

We have lost GFs because we peaked in years when there were super sides. 02 and 03 Brisbane, who I still think is the greatest team to ever play. In 2011 to Geelong, who are not far behind the Brisbane of 01-04.

Sydney have also lost to super sides such as West Coast in 2006 and Hawthorn of 2013. Sides like Richmond were lucky to peak in weak years of 2017 and 2019.

Losing a GF though is a hell of a lot better than a miserable season finishing with the wooden spoon, indicating a future of a long wait to get to play finals.

Not far behind?

home and away performance:
brisbane 2002: wins 17 loses 5 percentage 136
Brisbane 2003: wins 14 loses 7 draw 1 percentage 121
Geelong 2011: wins 19 loses 3 percentage 157.

geelong also had the superior finals series winning all finals by more then 5 goals while brisbane lost a final in 2003 and nearly lost the grand final in 2002 to a vastly inferior collingwood side then the collingwood 2011 side that geelong beat by over 6 goals.

by what measure is geelong 2011 slightly behind these brisbane teams rather then comfortably above?

 

[Seattle Mariners]

Really though is it any worse than finishing top 4 and going out in straight sets in consecutive years ? That's pretty atrocious in itself.
All debatable I suppose. Could not give a stuff about the current GF record tbh as It is the next one they make that is the one that counts. Six GF appearances in 17 yrs is an average of playing in one every 3 yrs. Tells me we give ourselves pretty goood looks on a regular basis. We will salute once again very soon.

Mate, Melbourne’s last two final series performances have been an absolute disgrace. An absolute disgrace. I’ll be the first to admit that.

Doesn’t change the fact that your grand final efforts, in isolation, have been deplorable. You should be commended for making multiple grand finals, but the thread focusses on Syndey’s grand finals performances. And I’m calling it as I see it. Deplorable.

The losses to Geelong (2022) and Hawthorn (2014) were indefensible.

 

[rapidfire7]

Melbourne and Sydney/South have both played in 18 Grand Finals, but their records could not be more different.
Melbourne 13-5 (and a draw), Sydney 5-13.
The very definition of taking your chances or not.

 

[Havoc]

If you want anyone to take anything you say seriously, maybe don’t use the word ‘fanboy’ because someone argues in favour of something.

What arguments can be made that LeBron is superior to Jordan?? LeBron has a 4-6 record in finals.. Jordan has a 6-0 record in finals!

Losing a grand final doesnt make you s**t.

Patrick Dangerfield has a 1-1 record in grand finals, while Dustin Martin has a 3-0 record in grand finals!

 

[PhatBoy]

What arguments can be made that LeBron is superior to Jordan?? LeBron has a 4-6 record in finals.. Jordan has a 6-0 record in finals!

Patrick Dangerfield has a 1-1 record in grand finals, while Dustin Martin has a 3-0 record in grand finals!

Yes yes as we all know literally the ONLY thing that counts in anyone’s career in anything is their record in finals which is why Michael Jordan is Bill Russel’s bit*h.

 

[Fire]

2016: Swans lost 10.7.67 to dogs 13.11.89. Dogs kicked 7.1.43 at half time to swans 7.3.45. Then the dogs kicked 2.6.18 to swans 1.2.8. Dogs kicked 3.4.22 to swans 2.2.14. Swans complained about the umpires.

Uh, it wasnt just the swans who complained. There's widespreas aknowledgement that it was the most based, game changing umpiring many have ever witnessed. If ever there was a team robbed by umpires, it was that one.

If that game had have been umpire fairly, then they'd be 3 wins 4 losses. Which is basically par, and this thread is pointless.

And i say all this forever hating the swans for stealing our premiership points by playing 19 men against us that one year i dont remember.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes yes as we all know literally the ONLY thing that counts in anyone’s career in anything is their record in finals which is why Michael Jordan is Bill Russel’s bit*h.

Ah yes the NBA debate...

Is Michael Jordan the best player ever in NBA history. Yes in a way, but its not as clear cut.

The NBA changed the rules to help michael jordan.

Meanwhile Wilt Chamberlin was that good, they changed the rules to try and minimize his dominance.

Let that sink in.

 

[Soggy2112]

Sure the Swans lose GFs a lot, but it’s still far better to be a team that makes them consistently and loses then doesn’t make them at all.

For all the shit Collingwood get about their losing GFs, they still sit equal top amongst the VFL-AFL tally.

This century the Swans are 33% in GFs, yet they’ve still won more flags than 11 other clubs

 

[Doc1763]

Sure the Swans lose GFs a lot, but it’s still far better to be a team that makes them consistently and loses then doesn’t make them at all.

For all the s**t Collingwood get about their losing GFs, they still sit equal top amongst the VFL-AFL tally.

This century the Swans are 33% in GFs, yet they’ve still won more flags than 11 other clubs

The amount of s**t we cop is because we lost 10 between flags #13 #14. Our record in the AFL era is 3 from 7, which I'll take every day of the week!

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Do a degree, yes.

2005 they were lucky imo. The cards fell their way. No Matera, No Lynch. The Eagles squandering first quarter chances, B-Hall's lucky free against Cox. Banfield hitting the post. Staker not picking up the ball when an open goal beckoned and Sampi not getting a free at the end. In Granny's though, the no calls are the way it goes.

2006 - They played great footy when they looked gone for over two and a half quarters. You can't fault them there.

2012 they thoroughly deserved that. Best team that year. Shocking umpiring in that SCG game against the Hawks too in a belter of a home and away game. Had some crackers with Hawthorn in their time.

2014 - Demoralised. Topped the ladder. Went in as favourites and got smashed to pieces.

2016 - Umpiring was shambolic. I was going for the Doggies and was happy to see them win. Watch that game again and see if it was fair. Despicable stuff.

2022 - Lol. Just lol. But Geelong were playing like they were from another universe. Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

36

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

produced legendary stuff.

Forget 96 North were just a class above everyone in the finals.

 

[Slingshot Footy]

Sydney just seem to bob up and grab one every decade or so (like us)

Wouldn't put it past them.

Maybe no Buddy focus will help them.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Personally, I don't think the Swans just bobbed up during the 2010s and nabbed the 2012 flag. With no disrespect towards the 2018 Eagles whose run to the flag while exciting was probably the most fortuitous after the Bulldogs in the 21st century.

Outside of Hawthorn and Richmond we were probably the third best (and probably the most consistent) team of the decade. If we weren't robbed in 2016 then we'd have 2 from 3 GF wins which I would have been more than happy with.

What I will say is that for teams like WCE and Sydney, the best we can probably hope for and achieve is a win or two per decade as trade and free agency will always be geared towards Victorian teams when half of the talent pool in the AFL is originally from there.

 

[Soggy2112]

Personally, I don't think the Swans just bobbed up during the 2010s and nabbed the 2012 flag. With no disrespect towards the 2018 Eagles whose run to the flag while exciting was probably the most fortuitous after the Bulldogs in the 21st century.

Outside of Hawthorn and Richmond we were probably the third best (and probably the most consistent) team of the decade. If we weren't robbed in 2016 then we'd have 2 from 3 GF wins which I would have been more than happy with.

What I will say is that for teams like WCE and Sydney, the best we can probably hope for and achieve is a win or two per decade as trade and free agency will always be geared towards Victorian teams when half of the talent pool in the AFL is originally from there.

A win or two per decade is ****ing outstanding.

Let’s say if you’d been in the VFL from the beginning and won 1.5 premierships per decade. You would have 19 flags, we’ll clear of the current best of 16.