Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[TheGrizz]

So is Snelling a rookie or a senior listed player?
I thought he is a rookie but he seems to be on the senior player page on the website.

Jok, and Mynott unlucky personally but I imagine Cutler cost Jok and maybe impending SSP (Hibberd?) cost Mynott.

 

[eth-dog]

So is Snelling a rookie or a senior listed player?
I thought he is a rookie but he seems to be on the senior player page on the website.

Jok, and Mynott unlucky personally but I imagine Cutler cost Jok and maybe impending SSP (Hibberd?) cost Mynott.

The MSD is a rookie draft.

 

[TheGrizz]

So we currently have 36 contracted senior listed players (Including Cutler and Phillips and Draper being promoted)
We also have 1 contracted rookie in Snelling

Regarding Brown and Hartley, i imagine we recontract both of them.
Brown gives good depth on both ends of the field (was a handy defender in 2016) and we know wjat Hartley is by now.
In reality if we are serious about contending, senior KPP depth is vital (as opposed to a speculative pick 60 odd), especially with the dodgy injury run of Joe, Stewart Hooker and Hurley the last 18 month's.

That leaves us with 38 senior players and 1 rookie heading into the draft.

This allows for two live picks and up to 3 rookie picks on current calculations.
I would see if we can trade up with 31 and 33 to get an impact player in the teens (River or Stephens) and pick up a developmental KPF later in the draft (Riccardi hopefully, or Jeremy O'Sullivan/Emerson Jeka if not).
I imagine one rookie spot could be a SSP for a mature mid (I.e Hibberd or Partington or Keays) and then pick up a developing ruck like Bowman and McQuillan (Irish recruit) fills the last spot

McBride fills a Cat B spot, I am a bit fuzzy on the rules but if Tippa 2.0 goes through both drafts can we sign him as a Cat B as well cause he is from the Tiwi?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Assume Rutten has been brought in to all list management decision making.

Wonder if his influence has anything to do with a seemingly tougher approach (Mynott, Jok etc).

 

[eth-dog]

So we currently have 36 contracted senior listed players (Including Cutler and Phillips and Draper being promoted)
We also have 1 contracted rookie in Snelling

Regarding Brown and Hartley, i imagine we recontract both of them.
Brown gives good depth on both ends of the field (was a handy defender in 2016) and we know wjat Hartley is by now.
In reality if we are serious about contending, senior KPP depth is vital (as opposed to a speculative pick 60 odd), especially with the dodgy injury run of Joe, Stewart Hooker and Hurley the last 18 month's.

That leaves us with 38 senior players and 1 rookie heading into the draft.

This allows for two live picks and up to 3 rookie picks on current calculations.
I would see if we can trade up with 31 and 33 to get an impact player in the teens (River or Stephens) and pick up a developmental KPF later in the draft (Riccardi hopefully, or Jeremy O'Sullivan/Emerson Jeka if not).
I imagine one rookie spot could be a SSP for a mature mid (I.e Hibberd or Partington or Keays) and then pick up a developing ruck like Bowman and McQuillan (Irish recruit) fills the last spot

McBride fills a Cat B spot, I am a bit fuzzy on the rules but if Tippa 2.0 goes through both drafts can we sign him as a Cat B as well cause he is from the Tiwi?

With Draper's promotion we have 37/2 with Snelling and whichever Irish doesn't go Cat B (assuming McBride fills that too).

 

[eth-dog]

So with Brown gone we have 5 open spots now (sorry about my mistake earlier). I really do think Hartley is getting another contract now.

Defenders:

Key Defenders: Michael Hurley, Cale Hooker (fwd), Patrick Ambrose, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Michael Hartley (ruc); Rookie: Cian McBride
Medium Defenders: Martin Gleeson, Aaron Francis, Jordan Ridley (mid)
Small Defenders: Mason Redman, Adam Saad, Conor McKenna; Rookie: Ross McQuillan

Midfielders:

Inside Midfielders: Darcy Parish (fwd), Devon Smith (fwd), Zachary Merrett, Dylan Shiel, Kobe Mutch (def), Dyson Heppell (def), Dylan Clarke; Rookie: Will Snelling (fwd)
Outside Midfielders: Andrew McGrath (def), Kyle Langford (fwd), David Zaharakis (fwd), Tom Cutler (def), Brayden Ham (fwd), Matt Guelfi (def),
Rucks: Tom Bellchambers (fwd), Andrew Phillips, Sam Draper,

Forwards:

Key Forwards: Joe Daniher, James Stewart, Noah Gown, Shaun McKernan (ruc)
Medium Forwards: Jayden Laverde, Josh Begley (mid), Jake Stringer (mid)
Small Forwards: Orazio Fantasia, Irving Mosquito, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

Ideally we'd get another key forward, another ruck, another two inside mids and another small defender. If we maintain our current picks I'd love:

Pick 31: Sam Philp
Pick 33: Trent Bianco (realized we probably needed him after doing this)
Pick 61: Jake Riccardi (if he lasts)

RD 11: Riley Bowman
RD 29: Adam Tipungwuti (Cat B)

SSP: Mitchell Hibberd
DFA: Patrick Kerr (if we don't get Riccardi)

 

[Yoda_]

Actually don’t mind the acquisition idea of Pat Kerr. Old school FF who averaged 1.5 goals a game in a pretty ordinary Northern Blues side.


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[TheGrizz]

I am still big on Mutch making it as a footballer.

At 187cm, a great tank and kick in either side of his body. Won't be a contested beast but I see a role for him. I reckon he would have played 8-10 games this year if he hadn't done his hammy v Melbourne.

Shiel, Heppell, Parish, Zerrett, Smith, Mutch, Langford, McGrath and one or two of Hibberd/Lyons/Stephens with Stringer rotating through centre bounces doesn't look as lopsided in size and has a good mix of inside and outside.

 

[eth-dog]

I am still big on Mutch making it as a footballer.

At 187cm, a great tank and kick in either side of his body. Won't be a contested beast but I see a role for him. I reckon he would have played 8-10 games this year if he hadn't done his hammy v Melbourne.

Shiel, Heppell, Parish, Zerrett, Smith, Mutch, Langford, McGrath and one or two of Hibberd/Lyons/Stephens with Stringer rotating through centre bounces doesn't look as lopsided in size and has a good mix of inside and outside.

Honestly I think he's lucky he was under contract at the end of the year, he needs a good year next year.

 

[TheGrizz]

Honestly I think he's lucky he was under contract at the end of the year, he needs a good year next year.

I am not denying this is the case. I am merely saying I think he has the tools to make it and if he hadn't of got injured against Melbourne in round 3 he would have played a decent amount of games potentially.
Obviously missing most of the year didn't help his cause and yeah if he was OOC he would have been in trouble.

 

[eth-dog]

I am not denying this is the case. I am merely saying I think he has the tools to make it and if he hadn't of got injured against Melbourne in round 3 he would have played a decent amount of games potentially.
Obviously missing most of the year didn't help his cause and yeah if he was OOC he would have been in trouble.

I'm not a huge wrap for him honestly. I compare him with Kurt Aylett at the same age (who got cut after 2 years) and what does he bring that Kouta didn't? He's a better kick, sure, but not outstanding enough that it makes it a big POD, and has nowhere near the tackling intensity that Aylett did.

 

[Yoda_]

I'm not a huge wrap for him honestly. I compare him with Kurt Aylett at the same age (who got cut after 2 years) and what does he bring that Kouta didn't? He's a better kick, sure, but not outstanding enough that it makes it a big POD, and has nowhere near the tackling intensity that Aylett did.

Mutch's tank and running capacity is a POD imho. Runs all day which is what makes him such an interesting proposition.

 

[eth-dog]

Mutch's tank and running capacity is a POD imho. Runs all day which is what makes him such an interesting proposition.

Aylett finished 3rd in our 2km TT his first year behind Ambrose and Stanton.

 

[citizen-erased]

Dees game is on fox.
Dev Smith - the running he offers us is amazing.

 

[TheGrizz]

Dees game is on fox.
Dev Smith - the running he offers us is amazing.

His intensity around the ball in general was sorely missed this year.

 

[revival_mode]

Aylett finished 3rd in our 2km TT his first year behind Ambrose and Stanton.

a 2km trial is not the same as a large tank over a full game though

 

[eth-dog]

a 2km trial is not the same as a large tank over a full game though

It's the best indicator of what we had at the time was a 2km TT. Aylett ran out games really well.

 

[Bjchan13]

Whats happening with Hartley now? Does he have to be offered a contract soon? Is he still a chance to be delisted?

 

[eth-dog]

Whats happening with Hartley now? Does he have to be offered a contract soon? Is he still a chance to be delisted?

He's a chance but I think he's going to get a one year deal

 

[Bjchan13]

He's a chance but I think he's going to get a one year deal

Yeah i thought the club might've let him know already. Maybe they're letting him explore all his options first for a better deal.

 

[BrunoV]

I'm trying to work out a way to display the list visually so that it provides perspective about what we have in each position.

Starting point is to work out the best 22, being the 22 players I expect would be named based on what has happened in the last 18 months and then rank each position for the whole list.

Where a number does not follow the ranking it's more about trying to show a minimum flexibility to enable teams to be displayed as 6-6-6 because I am not convinced that any of the players who line up in the positions as "wingmen", in the best 22, for example, are natural or function as wingmen - it's more a case of a midfielder lining up in the position.

Best 22, not endorsed by Bruno:

SD1: Saad (178cm, 75kg)	KPD1: Ambrose (192cm, 93kg)	KPD3: Hurley (193cm, 92kg)
SD2: McKenna (184cm, 84kg)	KPD2: Hooker (198cm, 103kg)	3TD1: Gleeson (191cm, 86kg)
R1: Bellchambers (200cm, 108kg)	M1: Shiel (182cm, 83kg)	M2: Merrett (180cm, 83kg)
M3/W: Heppell (189cm, 84kg)	W/M5: McGrath (178cm, 83kg)	W/SD3: Redman (187cm, 87kg)
SF/M4/W: Smith (174cm, 77kg)	KF1: Daniher (201cm, 100kg)	SF1: Fantasia (177cm, 77kg)
3TF1: Stringer (192cm, 95kg)	KF2/2R1: McKernan (196m, 100kg)	SF2: McDonald-Tipungwuti (171cm, 78kg)
I-KPD4/3TD2: Francis (192cm, 90kg)	I-M6: Parish (180cm, 80kg)	I-M8/MF2: Langford (191cm, 90kg)
I-M7/W: Zaharakis (180cm, 80kg)

There are more dual position players but I don't think it helps with the assessment of the list to represent players in positions they will rarely play in or in which they find themselves for only a few minutes a game. It otherwise distorts the capability of the list.

It's actually very difficult to name the ideal set-up because we play 7 to 8 defenders. I would be surprised if we have ever started a match without the above back 6 and Redman on the ground. In any event, it's not that important if you want to substitute an interchange player for Redman.

The players I have underlined are either of suspect quality, may now be past it and no longer of sufficient quality and/or, at least in the case of Francis, really do not fit my idea of a balanced side (where there are 2 other slow tall defenders). I'm far from enamored by Parish and Langford being the midfielder cover given the lack of ball winning strength in the side. You could name Guelfi in that side if you think it helps win games.

This brings us to the VFL side:

SD/W: Guelfi (183cm, 79kg)	KPD5: Hartley (198cm, 104kg)	KPD6: Zerk-Thatcher (195cm, 86kg)
SD4: McQuillan (188cm, 75kg)	KPD7: McBide (197cm, 90kg)	3TD3/MD/W: Ridley (192cm, 91cm)
R2: Draper (203cm, 107kg)	M9: Clarke (187cm, 87kg)	M11/W2: Mutch (187cm, 86kg)
M11/SF: Snelling (174cm, 85kg)	W1/MD/3TD: Cutler (192cm, 93 kg)	W3: Ham (181cm, 70kg)
3TF2/MF1: Laverde (191cm, 91kg)	KF4: Gown (194cm, 91kg)	MF3/M: Begley (188cm, 97kg)
SF5:	KF3/2R2: Stewart (198cm, 96kg)	SF4: Mosquito (176cm, 72kg)
I-R3: Phillips (203cm, 99kg)	I-[Key forward/ruck]:	I-[Mid]:
I-[Mid/SD]:	I-[SD/W]:

It's much the same story with underlined players, though age is not a factor here. Hartley's future is uncertain. Guelfi is not really named in a position but, then, he's not actually in the best 5 midfield options in this side (and is a horrible defender). The 3 first choice mids are about as uninspiring as it gets.

We're obviously in the market for another small forward. Much as I like the sound of Comben, for example, I wonder whether we'll just play it safe, sign Bowman and select other players.

We have a number of gaps which require filling. It's definitely not a case of just being light for quality mids. We have no real small defender in reserve (unless we play McGrath), we need another genuine wingman, a small forward, mids and, ideally, a key forward big enough to be developed as the 4th ruck on the list.

 

[Yoda_]

Its funny when you see the names on paper and then compare them to the age profile, the supposed "ïnside bull" we so desperately want, (myself included) isn't as highly neccesary as we all seem to think. Afterall, Merrett is only 25, Langford is still only 25, Parish and McGrath are still under 23. Hell, Shiel is only 27 himself.

I do agree that outside pace is something we should address, but we have just added Cutler, and whilst Zaka is 30+, we've got Ham who showed promising signs in his debut year, Snelling you have named up on a (VFL) wing and the untried kids should have more opportunity further afield at VFL level in Moz, Begley and even Ridley from defence.

 

[TheGrizz]

Its funny when you see the names on paper and then compare them to the age profile, the supposed "ïnside bull" we so desperately want, (myself included) isn't as highly neccesary as we all seem to think. Afterall, Merrett is only 25, Langford is still only 25, Parish and McGrath are still under 23. Hell, Shiel is only 27 himself.

I do agree that outside pace is something we should address, but we have just added Cutler, and whilst Zaka is 30+, we've got Ham who showed promising signs in his debut year, Snelling you have named up on a (VFL) wing and the untried kids should have more opportunity further afield at VFL level in Moz, Begley and even Ridley from defence.

Regarding our height breakdown in midfield:
190-193cm: Langford
189-186cm: Heppell, D.Clarke, Mutch
181-185cm: Shiel, Parish, Zaharakis
180cm and below: McGrath, D.Smith, Zerrett, Snelling

I think if we can pick up one 'big body' that's ready to play (Mitchell Hibberd for example) to play a role and another mid sized option in the draft (Philp, Randall, Stephens etc) that's probably the balance we need.

* I haven't included part timers like Stringer and Walla who rotate through centre bounces.

 

[BrunoV]

I cant believe we go through it every time.

Just forget the concept totally if Heppell and Langford are "big bodies" in any functionally relevant sense.

Mutch is a lanky wingman who I've put in a midfield role because there is no other midfielder.

 

[Doss]

Its funny when you see the names on paper and then compare them to the age profile, the supposed "ïnside bull" we so desperately want, (myself included) isn't as highly neccesary as we all seem to think. Afterall, Merrett is only 25, Langford is still only 25, Parish and McGrath are still under 23. Hell, Shiel is only 27 himself.

I do agree that outside pace is something we should address, but we have just added Cutler, and whilst Zaka is 30+, we've got Ham who showed promising signs in his debut year, Snelling you have named up on a (VFL) wing and the untried kids should have more opportunity further afield at VFL level in Moz, Begley and even Ridley from defence.

Langford turns 23 next month. Shiel is still 26.