Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[yodellinhank]

Genuine question - has the club brought you any joy lately?

It's a good question. I went to a half of VFLW on the weekend and had the best time, so yes.

 

[ant555]

You're not getting it. My point of interest is this year's "oh, but we're developing" narrative everyone is going with. I'm keen to follow the progress of that, if that's what we're doing.

Did they play Voss forward on the weekend? If it's a role they want they probably should've at least tried to draft one last year. Too busy taking 25 year olds?

Yeah because we did not draft anyone under 20 in the last two years

 

[boncer34]

From Footywire Hawks and Freo were too. Not that it matters, we are only 4 months younger than Melbourne. Being slightly younger doesn't mean much when the likes of Ham and Guelfi are bringing the average down but aren't going to be part of the future.

Guelfi doesnt bring the average down.

And I'd argue in the context of the discussion that me and the other poster were having that being younger is important.

 

[boncer34]

You're an impatient child who wants everything RIGHT NOW or will sook about it. We get it.

He just wants to know who the club is planning to develop.

The answer is "we don't know."

 

[ant555]

It matters how old they are because the discussion is what we're building for the future. It's all very well to say this isn't our year we're a developing side, so let's focus on that development.

Shiel is not the future, though he did cost it.

Crap.
You can get 3 to 5 years out of a player like Sheil and it works better if he has a modified role.
The future is not just about being under 20 !

Also what did Sheil cost us ? Caldwell and I think Bonner.
We now have Caldwell.

 

[faible]

He just wants to know who the club is planning to develop.

The answer is "we don't know."

He just wants to complain, despite the head coach literally telling the world what the plan is for the future, he's upset that the future isn't immediately.

Sorry we didn't draft and develop a pure tagger despite no team in the AFL running a pure tagger, I guess?

 

[boncer34]

He just wants to complain, despite the head coach literally telling the world what the plan is for the future, he's upset that the future isn't immediately.

Sorry we didn't draft and develop a pure tagger despite no team in the AFL running a pure tagger, I guess?

He wanted to know who the player is we're developing in the role.

The answer is "we don't know."

 

[yodellinhank]

Yeah because we did not draft anyone under 20 in the last two years

Too early to tell what that group brings, obviously Perkins is a pretty exciting prospect. I'm not really filled with optimism about our drafting.

Looking back at 2016 onwards as the period I'd hope the "core" of the group would come from and it's pretty grim reading. You need to balance it out with the trades sure, but that gets me thinking Smith, Saad, Shiel - not exactly geared towards 3-4 years time.

I think I'm wright in saying you've said it's about nailing 1-2 per draft and lucking out somewhere in amongst that? Just feels like we're an 8-12 team that's on the road to being an 8-12 team at the moment.

 

[boncer34]

Crap.
You can get 3 to 5 years out of a player like Sheil and it works better if he has a modified role.
The future is not just about being under 20 !

Shiel strikes me as someone who can play till his mid-30s. He seems to have that dedicated approach to his training.

If his body let's him do that is another story

 

[boncer34]

Too early to tell what that group brings, obviously Perkins is a pretty exciting prospect. I'm not really filled with optimism about our drafting.

Looking back at 2016 onwards as the period I'd hope the "core" of the group would come from and it's pretty grim reading. You need to balance it out with the trades sure, but that gets me thinking Smith, Saad, Shiel - not exactly geared towards 3-4 years time.

I think I'm wright in saying you've said it's about nailing 1-2 per draft and lucking out somewhere in amongst that? Just feels like we're an 8-12 team that's on the road to being an 8-12 team at the moment.

Disagree. We're currently an 8-12 side but we have more pieces then an 8-12 side. It's just about putting them together.

 

[yodellinhank]

He wanted to know who the player is we're developing in the role.

The answer is "we don't know."

Exactly. I'm happy to accept we're still a developing list, so the question is how do we guage the success of that. I'd like to look at what's going on week to week and see be able to see the positive steps we're taking for the future. Otherwise it's all just empty platitudes.

 

[yodellinhank]

Disagree. We're currently an 8-12 side but we have more pieces then an 8-12 side. It's just about putting them together.

Trouble for me is we keep doing the edges, and can't get the middle to fit.

 

[boncer34]

Exactly. I'm happy to accept we're still a developing list, so the question is how do we guage the success of that. I'd like to look at what's going on week to week and see be able to see the positive steps we're taking for the future. Otherwise it's all just empty platitudes.

There's no exact measurement though. Not for us on the outside. I guess we'll see Friday night that if we shut or minimise Petracca's influence you could argue we've developed a nullifying string.

Probably won't happen this week though.

 

[boncer34]

Trouble for me is we keep doing the edges, and can't get the middle to fit.

I'd disagree with that too. We've always had a core group of good quality AFL players. It's why we've had AA's consistently. The middle fits and works well.

It's the edges we get smashed. Our depth isn't good enough.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You're an impatient child who wants everything RIGHT NOW or will sook about it. We get it.

to be fair waiting 20 years for some success probably doesn't count as impatient.

 

[faible]

Exactly. I'm happy to accept we're still a developing list, so the question is how do we guage the success of that. I'd like to look at what's going on week to week and see be able to see the positive steps we're taking for the future. Otherwise it's all just empty platitudes.

Well this is untrue.

 

[yodellinhank]

I'd disagree with that too. We've always had a core group of good quality AFL players. It's why we've had AA's consistently. The middle fits and works well.

It's the edges we get smashed. Our depth isn't good enough.

I don't like the chemistry of what we've got going in the middle. All decent players in isolation, but together it just isn't working. And I'd like to see more go through there. Watching the cats do what they did and thinking they still had Menegola and Duncan on the sidelines was confronting viewing.

 

[boncer34]

I don't like the chemistry of what we've got going in the middle. All decent players in isolation, but together it just isn't working. And I'd like to see more go through there. Watching the cats do what they did and thinking they still had Menegola and Duncan on the sidelines was confronting viewing.

Yeah so it was their peripheral players that did the damage since they still had key planks sitting out.

Ours just haven't been able to do that.

 

[boncer34]

Well this is untrue.

Helpful.

 

[faible]

Helpful.

About as much as hanks contributions, yes.

 

[boncer34]

About as much as hanks contributions, yes.

we're having a personally reasonable discussion now despite clearly disagreeing.

 

[faible]

we're having a personally reasonable discussion now despite clearly disagreeing.

When I made an effort to post perfectly reasonable commentary and the replies were just obtuse complaints with absolutely no attempt at discussing anything, you're going to get the odd snarky reply in return.

 

[boncer34]

When I made an effort to post perfectly reasonable commentary and the replies was just obtuse complaints with absolutely no attempt at discussing anything, you're going to get the odd snarky reply in return.

Sure. Just don't know if there was a need for more snarky comments once we'd started moving the thread back on track.

I've mellowed somewhat in my old age though.

 

[Mercurial89]

I don't like the chemistry of what we've got going in the middle. All decent players in isolation, but together it just isn't working. And I'd like to see more go through there. Watching the cats do what they did and thinking they still had Menegola and Duncan on the sidelines was confronting viewing.

Yeah so it was their peripheral players that did the damage since they still had key planks sitting out.

Ours just haven't been able to do that.

When people take a step back that is probably the cause of a lot of supporter angst.

Who do people complain about? Your Smith's, Ham, Guelfi, Cutler.*
Those are all those bottom 5 players of your 22 that are being asked to perform roles and probably ain't great.

I'd argue that our build is probably pretty mapped out as to what we can expect.
Get some more young talent into those bottom parts of the list and then hopefully get some chemistry and game plan drilled in.

It's also not linear. So expecting progress this year after making a final next year is probably setting yourself up for disappointment.


* When I say this is they aren't a great fit in the role, or aren't performing to the level we as a weaker team need. I think in certain teams these guys would be fine. Ham in particular would look great in another team playing a role. For example he would have been a perfect fit for Eagles of a couple years ago with their kicking and movement

 

[boncer34]

When people take a step back that is probably the cause of a lot of supporter angst.

Who do people complain about? Your Smith's, Ham, Guelfi, Cutler.
Those are all those bottom 5 players of your 22 that are being asked to perform roles and probably ain't great.

I'd argue that our build is probably pretty mapped out as to what we can expect.
Get some more young talent into those bottom parts of the list and then hopefully get some chemistry and game plan drilled in.

It's also not linear. So expecting progress this year after making a final next year is probably
setting yourself up for disappointment.

I had that exact argument with someone the other day. "Carlton have gone past us, we're going backwards bla bla bla."

As you said improvement and development isn't linear. Otherwise Melbourne wouldn't have stopped off at 17th between a Prelim and a Flag.