Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[yodellinhank]

Yeah so it was their peripheral players that did the damage since they still had key planks sitting out.

Ours just haven't been able to do that.

You're probably right in that we rely on too few. My bug bear with our top order is they all seem to offer the same thing.

Cats smashed us for strength around the ball, with the guys out I mentioned also being strong in that area. I've got so much hope invested in Hobbs, and he's going to need some support.

 

[yodellinhank]

When I made an effort to post perfectly reasonable commentary and the replies were just obtuse complaints with absolutely no attempt at discussing anything, you're going to get the odd snarky reply in return.

I think the best way to beat Lachy Neale (and tying in with the modern environment) is to have a better Lachie Neale. The guy who puts his head over the hard ball and wins it. That's the player we need to find and develop.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

I think the best way to beat Lachy Neale (and tying in with the modern environment) is to have a better Lachie Neale. The guy who puts his head over the hard ball and wins it. That's the player we need to find and develop.

Great, so what can Rutten do about that now?

 

[yodellinhank]

Great, so what can Rutten do about that now?

Well hopefully someone who watched the VFL might chime in and say they thought Hobbs played a blinder stay tuned. I've been hoping we'd bring someone like that in since Luke Ball was on the market, so it'd be great to find out we've finally made a start.

The initial discussion was that Rutten said he wants to develop a player who can play a run with role, so I asked how he is going about it. That way I can track the success of the endeavour. Otherwise "we're in development" just becomes the new "moving towards the way we want to play".

So....about Truck, has anyone got any news about what farming equipment he's getting next? A hay baler for the tractor maybe?

Always something in development in the farming game.

 

[faible]

I think the best way to beat Lachy Neale (and tying in with the modern environment) is to have a better Lachie Neale. The guy who puts his head over the hard ball and wins it. That's the player we need to find and develop.

We have Stringer who's a centre clearance beast but was on limited midfield minutes, and Shiel is a good clearance winner who wasn't playing. Caldwell won as many centre clearances as Parish and hasn't played 20 games yet, and Hobbs was drafted as a clearance player.

Merrett out should hopefully give us an opportunity to see how Caldwell goes with more time on-ball, as he's that strong bodied, combative type we need in there and despite his low games played, his body should be mature enough to at 21 to start to hold his own.

Maybe 2022 will be the making of Caldwell in the same way 2021 was the making of Parish.

Hobbs is a couple of years off being that beast at AFL level, but should fill out to be a Taylor Adams type build which we've seen for guys like GAJ, Neale and Adams, makes them a strong clearance player at AFL level.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Well hopefully someone who watched the VFL might chime in and say they thought Hobbs played a blinder stay tuned. I've been hoping we'd bring someone like that in since Luke Ball was on the market, so it'd be great to find out we've finally made a start.

The initial discussion was that Rutten said he wants to develop a player who can play a run with role, so I asked how he is going about it. That way I can track the success of the endeavour. Otherwise "we're in development" just becomes the new "moving towards the way we want to play".

Always something in development in the farming game.

Yeah I know the discussion started with Rutten but it had just strayed into another list discussion which from a selfish perspective I'm not that interested in at this time of year, especially in this thread.

My read on what Rutten was getting at on 360 is he doesn't want to compromise structure for a run with player that would not be part of the normal midfield rotation, or one that can not help much with winning the ball which I've got no problems in this day and age. His comment about wanting to develop one seemed like a general "nice to have" comment with his focus being more on developing the players and schemes to get the ball first, then prevent fluid movement to cause turnovers and counter attack. For a developing team like us I think he has the right focus.

In terms of midfield improvement Rutten has control over now, I'm happy for them to stick with what they've been doing preseason for at least the first six weeks to allow things to normalise.

If things aren't working at that point I'd like some creativity in personnel and position. Waterman, while not having a great tank, is supposedly a great clearance player, can him and Stringer tag team mid and forward?

Hobbs should be in now instead of Ham or Smith in my opinion, I don't care if it's not the designated role desired for Hobbs right now.

While Jones, Langford and Cox is out, I'd like them to try a Draper/Bryan combo ruck with Bryan playing either high half forward/wing while not in the Ruck. Draper is young, inexperienced and raw and when his tap is off, swap them out during a game. Our midfield can be made to look worse than it is if the taps are going to the wrong place. Don't get me wrong, Draper has been great for his experience, but it doesn't change the off taps in the first couple of games have been very damaging against us. With Wright's improvement forward I don't want to rob an already undermanned forward line by putting him in the ruck.

 

[faible]

Yeah I know the discussion started with Rutten but it had just strayed into another list discussion which from a selfish perspective I'm not that interested in at this time of year, especially in this thread.

My read on what Rutten was getting at on 360 is he doesn't want to compromise structure for a run with player that would not be part of the normal midfield rotation, or one that can not help much with winning the ball which I've got no problems in this day and age. His comment about wanting to develop one seemed like a general "nice to have" comment with his focus being more on developing the players and schemes to get the ball first, then prevent fluid movement to cause turnovers and counter attack. For a developing team like us I think he has the right focus.

In terms of midfield improvement Rutten has control over now, I'm happy for them to stick with what they've been doing preseason for at least the first six weeks to allow things to normalise.

If things aren't working at that point I'd like some creativity in personnel and position. Waterman, while not having a great tank, is supposedly a great clearance player, can him and Stringer tag team mid and forward?

Hobbs should be in now instead of Ham or Smith in my opinion, I don't care if it's not the designated role desired for Hobbs right now.

While Jones, Langford and Cox is out, I'd like them to try a Draper/Bryan combo ruck with Bryan playing either high half forward/wing while not in the Ruck. Draper is young, inexperienced and raw and when his tap is off, swap them out during a game. Our midfield can be made to look worse than it is if the taps are going to the wrong place. Don't get me wrong, Draper has been great for his experience, but it doesn't change the off taps in the first couple of games have been very damaging against us. With Wright's improvement forward I don't want to rob an already undermanned forward line by putting him in the ruck.

Melbourne run 2 x Ruckmen plus a genuine KPF so a Draper - Wright - Bryan / Phillips combo wouldn't be outlandish given they're all quite mobile for big guys.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Melbourne run 2 x Ruckmen plus a genuine KPF so a Draper - Wright - Bryan / Phillips combo wouldn't be outlandish given they're all quite mobile for big guys.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Use this time with first choice tall wingers and forwards out as an opportunity to try something and against Melbourne might be a good place to start.

 

[andleanback]

I had that exact argument with someone the other day. "Carlton have gone past us, we're going backwards bla bla bla."

As you said improvement and development isn't linear. Otherwise Melbourne wouldn't have stopped off at 17th between a Prelim and a Flag.

The argument is how on earth did we go past Carlton last year, they should’ve been years ahead of us with their development (drafted their spine in 2015). They just haven’t been able to put it together. With the young talls we’ve brought in over the past couple of years, if the aim is to have successful period with them being the core of the side, well then we are 2 years minimum away from realistically competing for top 4.

 

[Lore]

The argument is how on earth did we go past Carlton last year, they should’ve been years ahead of us with their development (drafted their spine in 2015). They just haven’t been able to put it together. With the young talls we’ve brought in over the past couple of years, if the aim is to have successful period with them being the core of the side, well then we are 2 years minimum away from realistically competing for top 4.

I think Cripps has played with a back injury for about 18 months, and they had a couple of other bad injuries (Charlie Curnow had a pretty bad knee)? Cripps in particular seems to be a bit of a lynch pin for them.

 

[andleanback]

I think Cripps has played with a back injury for about 18 months, and they had a couple of other bad injuries (Charlie Curnow had a pretty bad knee)? Cripps in particular seems to be a bit of a lynch pin for them.

Yep could’ve been a whole lot different for Teague if he had a 2022 cripps and curnow last year. Most likely make finals and he keeps his job.

 

[citizen-erased]

The argument is how on earth did we go past Carlton last year, they should’ve been years ahead of us with their development (drafted their spine in 2015). They just haven’t been able to put it together. With the young talls we’ve brought in over the past couple of years, if the aim is to have successful period with them being the core of the side, well then we are 2 years minimum away from realistically competing for top 4.

coach
off-field issues
cripps broken
curnow makes a difference.
Cerra + Hewett = 2x starting mids.

they fixed a lot of their woes in one off-season.
much of it appears to be do the basics right.

midfields in the midfield
clear roles for everyone else.
Simple game plan of play consistent, hard football

 

[Dave]

I think the best way to beat Lachy Neale (and tying in with the modern environment) is to have a better Lachie Neale. The guy who puts his head over the hard ball and wins it. That's the player we need to find and develop.

I thought we were trying to beat Brisbane, not one player. Had we kicked straight, Neale's contributions would have been irrelevant.

 

[ant555]

Too early to tell what that group brings, obviously Perkins is a pretty exciting prospect. I'm not really filled with optimism about our drafting.

Looking back at 2016 onwards as the period I'd hope the "core" of the group would come from and it's pretty grim reading. You need to balance it out with the trades sure, but that gets me thinking Smith, Saad, Shiel - not exactly geared towards 3-4 years time.

I think I'm wright in saying you've said it's about nailing 1-2 per draft and lucking out somewhere in amongst that? Just feels like we're an 8-12 team that's on the road to being an 8-12 team at the moment.

Not sure why you are talking 2016 as despite us have 30 players suspended they still thought they where in the window for top 4 and from memory so did you at the end of 2017. It may be grim reading but we where not actually looking to rebuild the list then. 2016 was part of the previous build up despite a lot of the players still being on the list. You are looking at a cross over of coaches, philosophy and list build. There may be a core group that where drafted between 2013 and 2016 but there was a core of veterans that have now departed. The three S trades where geared for the now when the did the deals. The club was clearly thinking top 4 in the 2018 - 2020 period. It did not happen. It was a fail but it is not part of what they are doing now.

The shift in thinking cam at the end of 2020 when everything imploded.
2021 new coach and working on a new attitude. New football manager. A few new assistant coaches and we took our first round picks to the draft . Did the same last year.
We where most likely an 8-12 team last year despite winning 11 and given most of our forward line is injured or simply under 22 yes we are looking at being an 8-12 team again but that is what happens when you look to build again. Make no mistake this is year two of a new era. It may work or it may take 10 years to change the club but after the 2020 debacle the club made a clear choice to have a look at itself and start on a different path.
Right now there is not many around at any level that where in leading roles before 2016 when the previous coach started.

And yes you are correct. I do think you need to nail 3 drafts in a 5 year period . I am confident with the 2020 draft as long as we do not keep destroying Cox by playing him on the wing. Perkins looks good. I think Cox can be a genuine star at CHB and Reid just needs a decent run at it. Hobbs will prove to be an astute pick up as well as he is a genuine clearance midfielder in the mold of Lachie Neale. Big call yes and I could be totally wrong but that is my thoughts based on what I have seen of them.

I do know the whole recruiting process has been overhauled by Josh Mahoney with a set up similar to what Melbourne run where the list manager , recruiting manager , coach , development coach and football manager all meet on a regular basis to define the list strategy. One reason they liked Archie despite him being a bit of a different cat is his competitive nature . Same with Cox and Reid and Hobbs this year.

 

[ant555]

I think the best way to beat Lachy Neale (and tying in with the modern environment) is to have a better Lachie Neale. The guy who puts his head over the hard ball and wins it. That's the player we need to find and develop.

Hobbs.

 

[ant555]

coach
off-field issues
cripps broken
curnow makes a difference.
Cerra + Hewett = 2x starting mids.

they fixed a lot of their woes in one off-season.
much of it appears to be do the basics right.

midfields in the midfield
clear roles for everyone else.
Simple game plan of play consistent, hard football

Agree. Captain actually back to form and fit is the biggest win for them.
They have under achieved for a few seasons now. They had a good list last year and should have played finals but as you say they slotted in a couple more decent midfields and have Curnow back on the park along side McKay.

 

[ant555]

I was thinking about this yesterday.

We literally are stuck with this fleet (full pun intended as observation to our short, slow inside midfield group) or we try to balance it out by moving one on.

Like, this is it for the next 3-5 years. fu**. My. Life


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Why do we need to move one on ?
Right now our midfield group is one type short and that is one big strong type that can cause havoc along with stringer. And they are now slow.
There will always be injuries and they are developing roles for them all to play.
For years we have complained about not having midfielders. We now have a few genuine midfielders that actually beat the Lions for contested footy last week. All we need to do is add the last bit. Hobbs will provide us with a Zorko / Neale type mini bull. Just have to find a mate so Stringers work load is not too much.

 

[boncer34]

He got weirdly hammered for it but should go back to the bench.

 

[Yoda_]

Why do we need to move one on ?
Right now our midfield group is one type short and that is one big strong type that can cause havoc along with stringer. And they are now slow.
There will always be injuries and they are developing roles for them all to play.
For years we have complained about not having midfielders. We now have a few genuine midfielders that actually beat the Lions for contested footy last week. All we need to do is add the last bit. Hobbs will provide us with a Zorko / Neale type mini bull. Just have to find a mate so Stringers work load is not too much.

I think you’re missing my point. I’m not replacing a midfielder with a flanker, I’m wanting to replace a 183cm inside mid with a 190cm midfielder. We don’t lose quantity but improve diversity in the mix we have.


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[ant555]

I think you’re missing my point. I’m not replacing a midfielder with a flanker, I’m wanting to replace a 183cm inside mid with a 190cm midfielder. We don’t lose quantity but improve diversity in the mix we have.


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Did we draft a flanker for a midfielder at the last draft ? may not have been 190cm but he was simply there for the picking.
And my point is valid , we need to add a midfielder not replace one we have. Why do you want to water down the midfield depth ? Surely Merretts injury and the injuries we had last year in the midfield highlights we shouldn't.

 

[84859300]

Hobbs.

Eventually, probably yes.

Currently, from what I saw him produce in the seconds game on the weekend, he's a little off from busting open the comp.

 

[faible]

he's a little off from busting open the comp.

Sounds like he'll be ready for Anzac Day?

 

[Vindicater]

Reid/Cox/Ridley

is the future of our backline.

Laverde, McGrath and one more running defender to fill it out.(Hind for now but someone else hopefully to come)

 

[faible]

Reid/Cox/Ridley

is the future of our backline.

Laverde, McGrath and one more running defender to fill it out.(Hind for now but someone else hopefully to come)

Redman when playing well is a decent run and carry player, generally good by foot too. He doesn't have the pace of a Saad or Hind, but he's no worse than most running half-backs in the league.

 

[Vindicater]

Redman when playing well is a decent run and carry player, generally good by foot too. He doesn't have the pace of a Saad or Hind, but he's no worse than most running half-backs in the league.

He cant defend though.

He would better used up on a wing in my opinion.