Team Effort

[SCRAY72]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I get the feeling you have been following the club a loooooooooooooong time


I'm pretty jaded about it all too - it's hard not to be, I can't think of anything or anyone that has caused me more emotional pain than the bulldogs, but really what else can you do?

I'd rather be proud of them having a dip and falling short than being cynical and saying same old dogs, another honourable loss etc.

I don't hold a lot of expectations for this year but I think we will win more than what you say

I also think we can easily win our next two games - starting with a much overdue win against St Kilda (if we lose one more time to these ****s I will be getting much more cynical however)

And Melbourne - seriously, how would you be supporting this mob these days with the selfish, insipid, self interested players they have? Their players at the moment are throwing their toys out of the cot because they have a coach who isn't prepared to put up with their crap. We'll kill them.

1972, as my username highlights.

I too, think we are a chance v the Saints, but more likely another honourable loss.

 

[SCRAY72]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I've been reading this thread all week and have been interested to read Matt's comments (re accepting mediocrity) and the responses ('think before you post Matt', 'team of KIDS', etc).

Yes there were some good signs from the game but I don't think it qualifies as a 'great effort' and reckon Matt has a good point.

From the teams on the weekend...
Total games played:
Bulldogs - 1996
Adelaide - 1849
Both teams had 10 players under 50 games.

So we might have had a team of kids, but so did Adelaide. So for all those who've given Matt a licking for his post, maybe do a bit of comparison first. I think he has a point. Just like when the Bulldogs drew with Richmond a few years back and got clapped off the ground by the Bulldog supporters at the game. To me that screams loser club.

Despite a new coach and a new game plan, IMO as supporters we should have expected our team to beat Adelaide on the weekend. It worries me that we get carried away with 'great' losses to team's who have less experience than us.

Don't let the facts get in the way of all the backslapping.

 

[Butane]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I say we line up everyone who can kick over 50m in the middle of the ground, get the ball to them, make sure they run it to around 60, and then kick the goal. That way, we never have to go inside 50 properly

Genius.

This would be a much more effective route to goal than our current method of kicking the ball to the opposition as much as possible when entering the 50.

 

[Butane]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I've been reading this thread all week and have been interested to read Matt's comments (re accepting mediocrity) and the responses ('think before you post Matt', 'team of KIDS', etc).

Yes there were some good signs from the game but I don't think it qualifies as a 'great effort' and reckon Matt has a good point.

From the teams on the weekend...
Total games played:
Bulldogs - 1996
Adelaide - 1849
Both teams had 10 players under 50 games.

So we might have had a team of kids, but so did Adelaide. So for all those who've given Matt a licking for his post, maybe do a bit of comparison first. I think he has a point. Just like when the Bulldogs drew with Richmond a few years back and got clapped off the ground by the Bulldog supporters at the game. To me that screams loser club.

Despite a new coach and a new game plan, IMO as supporters we should have expected our team to beat Adelaide on the weekend. It worries me that we get carried away with 'great' losses to team's who have less experience than us.

What's worse is our best players were our experienced players.

According to 'Ching' voting, various media outlets and statistical analysis - Boyd(29) Griffen(26) Lake(30) Murphy(29) Cross(29) feature heavily in our best.

Compared to Adelaide, who had best on ground Thompson(29) and then Walker(21) Sloane(22) Lynch(21) MacKay(23). To be fair you could throw a blanket over Adelaide's players with Doughty (32) and Reilly (28) also contributing heavily.

 

[Sentinel]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

What's worse is our best players were our experienced players.

According to 'Ching' voting, various media outlets and statistical analysis - Boyd(29) Griffen(26) Lake(30) Murphy(29) Cross(29) feature heavily in our best.

Compared to Adelaide, who had best on ground Thompson(29) and then Walker(21) Sloane(22) Lynch(21) MacKay(23). To be fair you could throw a blanket over Adelaide's players with Doughty (32) and Reilly (28) also contributing heavily.

I think that is being a little selective though as a selection from the media, Ching and stats. You could easily swap perhaps Lake and Cross out for Dahlhaus (19) and Picken (25) from our best five (of course its all subjective), and for Adelaide's best five throw in Reilly and Doughty for Lynch and Sloane and all of a sudden it doesn't look a lot different. I'm very happy to have older players leading the way too and setting an example to the younger guys, the majority of whom have had at least one good game out of two.

 

[Butane]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I think that is being a little selective though as a selection from the media, Ching and stats. You could easily swap perhaps Lake and Cross out for Dahlhaus (19) and Picken (25) from our best five (of course its all subjective), and for Adelaide's best five throw in Reilly and Doughty for Lynch and Sloane and all of a sudden it doesn't look a lot different. I'm very happy to have older players leading the way too and setting an example to the younger guys, the majority of whom have had at least one good game out of two.

I was trying to be as objective as possible - I didn't even notice MacKay's game until I looked over at the Adelaide board's votes for this game.

I think Dahl was in our best 5 week 1 and solid again last week but not in our best. Libba was same. I'm happy for these guys to dip in and out of games this season as long as they keep improving at the rate they are.

We haven't even seen Tutt this year - who took the world by storm at the end of last year. Hopefully he's over his injury.

 

[Sentinel]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I'm happy for these guys to dip in and out of games this season as long as they keep improving at the rate they are.

I definitely think that's what this year is all about. Provided the team puts in a solid performance like last week, if we get steady improvement from the group of Dahlhaus, Libba, Tutt, Grant, Jones, Markovic, Roughead, Cordy, Djerrkura, Smith, Dickson and Veszpremi then it will be a successful year from a rebuilding point of view. Its a given that some of the older guys will start to drop off and some guys won't come on, but if the younger players can build up, whether in the VFL or AFL, and start to develop some real consistency in their games, then we should have taken a big step forward that teams like Richmond and Melbourne haven't been able to do.

 

[carn tigez]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

Could be a problem for us. The quality still remaining from our prelim days will prevent us from dropping all the way down. Maybe we don't need to.

Not saying this will be the case, but that's pretty much what happened to Richmond between 2000 and 2010. Always had Richo Simmonds Brown Johnson Coughlan Bowden to prevent us from bottoming out for long periods, but wasn't enough to take us all the way either.

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and offload the proven very goods with the aim of getting some greats.

In saying this, I don't think that's where the Bulldogs are at just yet.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I say we line up everyone who can kick over 50m in the middle of the ground, get the ball to them, make sure they run it to around 60, and then kick the goal. That way, we never have to go inside 50 properly

Genius.

Essendon should have tried that in round 21, 2000

 

[Testekill]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

Not saying this will be the case, but that's pretty much what happened to Richmond between 2000 and 2010. Always had Richo Simmonds Brown Johnson Coughlan Bowden to prevent us from bottoming out for long periods, but wasn't enough to take us all the way either.

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and offload the proven very goods with the aim of getting some greats.

In saying this, I don't think that's where the Bulldogs are at just yet.

But on the other hand, we don't want to be like Melbourne who traded or cut their mature players to stock up on youth and had this bite them in the ass when they needed leadership out there.

 

[Leon]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

But on the other hand, we don't want to be like Melbourne who traded or cut their mature players to stock up on youth and had this bite them in the ass when they needed leadership out there.

The mature players at Melbourne and their inept leadership are the very reason they are in so much trouble at the moment. That and poor drafting.

I don't blame them for chopping out the players they have and think they should do the same with the likes of Green, Davey etc. Much better Seems like ever since the appointment of Neeld these blokes have cracked the shits at having a big mean coach who isn't afraid to give them an arse kicking.

Our leadership group gets criticized from time to time, sometimes with merit, but I'd take ours any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Melbourne's "leaders".

Players like Murphy, Gia, Morris etc are good leaders for the young kids that are coming though with us at the moment.

 

[Werewolf]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

So for all those who've given Matt a licking for his post, maybe do a bit of comparison first. I think he has a point. Just like when the Bulldogs drew with Richmond a few years back and got clapped off the ground by the Bulldog supporters at the game. To me that screams loser club.

To be fair, we came from 3 goals down in the last 5 minutes to snatch a draw. Richmond beat eventual premiers Hawthorn that year.

Very pleased with the signs and the game plan looks good. Add Williams and Morris to that defence and it’s still one of the better backlines in the comp. The midfield is down on form as much as anything – the ability is evident, and I’m sure they will hit their straps soon. The forward line is pathetic, plain and simple. Take Jones out of it and we’d struggle to generate any goals at all IMO. Our kicking from half forward on is a joke. Must play Cordy, Tutt and Skinner as much as possible. Get 15-20 games in to them now while you’ve got the chance.

Stay positive. There is a bit to work with and I reckon we are still in that position 8-14 bracket. Premiership window to re-open post 2013.

The mature players at Melbourne and their inept leadership are the very reason they are in so much trouble at the moment. That and poor drafting.

I don't blame them for chopping out the players they have and think they should do the same with the likes of Green, Davey etc. Much better Seems like ever since the appointment of Neeld these blokes have cracked the shits at having a big mean coach who isn't afraid to give them an arse kicking.

Our leadership group gets criticized from time to time, sometimes with merit, but I'd take ours any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Melbourne's "leaders".

Players like Murphy, Gia, Morris etc are good leaders for the young kids that are coming though with us at the moment.

Both good posts. Agree on all points

 

[SCRAY72]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

Great effort boys, won the inside 50's v the Saints 50 to 46.

Another tragic year to be added to the tragic history of this club.

The unconditional positivity will be sucked out of the backslappers before round 11, this will be an excruciating year for Bulldogs members.

Must admit didn't see it coming,I predicted a 4 goal loss to the Saints.

McCartney (I refuse to call him Macca), has coached poorly so far, he can begin to redeem himself at the selection table.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

Great effort boys, won the inside 50's v the Saints 50 to 46.

Another tragic year to be added to the tragic history of this club.

The unconditional positivity will be sucked out of the backslappers before round 11, this will be an excruciating year for Bulldogs members.

Must admit didn't see it coming,I predicted a 4 goal loss to the Saints.

McCartney (I refuse to call him Macca), has coached poorly so far, he can begin to redeem himself at the selection table.

How we won the inside 50s is beyond me.

Just like the Swans, we can't afford to bottom out, from a financial point of view it would cripple us, and we're always near the bottom of the membership ladder in the good times, let alone the bad times.

We all know there's no justice in footy, but we've got to suck it up. It will be hard and there will be pain, but that's what you expect with our club - it's the default setting.

Maybe one year we'll do a Bradbury and somehow claim a flag? Maybe one year we won't choke on the big stage?

I love my club dearly and always will, but God they break your heart.

 

[dogsbody]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

....Just like the Swans, we can't afford to bottom out, from a financial point of view it would cripple us, and .....

Change the trading names to "Victorian Bulldogs", proclaim that we represent the whole of Victoria and watch the sponsorship dollars roll in. Perhaps we could even think bigger and change to "Australian Bulldogs", what about "Universal Bulldogs" ?

There are no quick fixes. If the forward line consists of young, skinny, inexperienced players, the midfield of grunters who can't kick, the defence in the medical rooms or on suspension and a coach who wants to change the game plan, Saturday's performance is the outcome and there's no improvement likely until the young forwards learn, the midfield develops better footskills, the backline gets back on the park and/or the new gameplan is learnt or discarded. Unless or until one or more of the above occur, Melbourne should win next Sunday, we may beat the 2 new clubs.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

I know that this site can be a bit bi polar in terms of attitudes, win and we love the world and lose and everything is crap.

So far this year we have opened the season with games against the best 2 teams of the pre season, we were beaten in both but you could see some real positives. We very nearly beat the Crows in Adelaide.

I thought we'd do ok against the Saints, but they were too good and we didn't seem to have the same intensity as the first 2 weeks.

We do have forward issues, they were evident the first 2 weeks too. Our talls simply are not ready yet. Our disposal is average these days also.

So we can try and continue with that and get games into the young talls, or, we try something else. Perhaps a smaller forward set up as suggested by N Brown.

We have very winnable games in the next 2 weeks. So we should not panic at selection table. Play with the intensity of weeks 1 and 2 and we win the next 2 games. Bringing in guys who are performing just so so at Willi like Sherman and Veszpremi is not the answer.

We as supporters have had to be very patient with our team, for very little reward over the years. But years like this are also an opportunity for us to see some new faces start out. We should look for the positives in that and hope we can see a future. We should get some great draft pics this year also. Things can turn quickly. Embrace the year, lower exepectations and try and enjoy watching the youngins develop.

 

[AJARWA]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

We as supporters have had to be very patient with our team, for very little reward over the years. But years like this are also an opportunity for us to see some new faces start out. We should look for the positives in that and hope we can see a future. We should get some great draft pics this year also. Things can turn quickly. Embrace the year, lower exepectations and try and enjoy watching the youngins develop.

It's funny how we always have to lower our expectations to be satisfied Bulldogs supporters. Pragmatic and I see your point TK... but I wonder if this is part of the problem. There's a fine line between lowering expectations and undeserved backslapping.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

It's funny how we always have to lower our expectations to be satisfied Bulldogs supporters. Pragmatic and I see your point TK... but I wonder if this is part of the problem. There's a fine line between lowering expectations and undeserved backslapping.

We don't always have to lower expectations. Plenty of recent years we would have had high expectations. This year should not be one of them, if it is then we will end up petty frustrated instead of enjoying some of the other aspects of footy a bit more.

The backslapping was for a good performance especially against the Crows. One alternative to that effort was what we saw on Saturday night. I will continue to reward a good effort, even if it's a loss, because I don't want to see us lose too many like we did against the Saints.

 

[carn tigez]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

But on the other hand, we don't want to be like Melbourne who traded or cut their mature players to stock up on youth and had this bite them in the ass when they needed leadership out there.

Yep exactly. It's a fine line. But in fairness, Melbourne still have Green, Jamar, Moloney, Sylvia, Rivers and Davey out there as experienced players. Their problem is more culture based I think, as was ours up until Hardwick took over.

There are so many factors that effect the development of sides that it becomes hard to pinpoint where exactly a team went wrong.

 

[josh the gent]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

It's funny how we always have to lower our expectations to be satisfied Bulldogs supporters. Pragmatic and I see your point TK... but I wonder if this is part of the problem. There's a fine line between lowering expectations and undeserved backslapping.

Huh, what are you talking about?!

We don't always have lower standards at all.

I think everyone expects honest efforts and gallant losses, this year. Fact remains we have lost a lot of players that made us into Premiership contenders in 2008-2010. During those years we all had the highest standards expected of the team.

I think people just need to realise that unfortunately we are probably at about 5 o'clock in the cycle. We probably need 2 good drafts to both rebuild our top-line talent, and get around 50 odd games into our young players.

If you think back to the dark days of 2003 and 2004, without those poor seasons, we never would have had the highs of 2008-10.

As for Sydney, they haven't looked like flag contenders since 2006, and I don't think they will look like flag contenders until they bottom out. I don't buy this crap about being a happy 5th to 8th placed team every year - I want to see us win a GF.

If you look at all the recent GF winners/runners-up, they have all had poor seasons in the past where they have added some high draft picks to their list. It's essential.

Really, I don't expect to start moving back up the table til 2014. If you think of Dahlhaus, Libba, Jones, Clay Smith, Roughie with 50 odd games under their belts, I am pretty sure we have the framework for a very, very good team, just need to load up with games and a couple early draft picks, and keep our expectations realistic in the mean time.

 

[Sharkey66]

Re: Great Effort Boys!

Huh, what are you talking about?!

We don't always have lower standards at all.

I think everyone expects honest efforts and gallant losses, this year. Fact remains we have lost a lot of players that made us into Premiership contenders in 2008-2010. During those years we all had the highest standards expected of the team.

I think people just need to realise that unfortunately we are probably at about 5 o'clock in the cycle. We probably need 2 good drafts to both rebuild our top-line talent, and get around 50 odd games into our young players.

If you think back to the dark days of 2003 and 2004, without those poor seasons, we never would have had the highs of 2008-10.

As for Sydney, they haven't looked like flag contenders since 2006, and I don't think they will look like flag contenders until they bottom out. I don't buy this crap about being a happy 5th to 8th placed team every year - I want to see us win a GF.

If you look at all the recent GF winners/runners-up, they have all had poor seasons in the past where they have added some high draft picks to their list. It's essential.

Really, I don't expect to start moving back up the table til 2014. If you think of Dahlhaus, Libba, Jones, Clay Smith, Roughie with 50 odd games under their belts, I am pretty sure we have the framework for a very, very good team, just need to load up with games and a couple early draft picks, and keep our expectations realistic in the mean time.

Gotta agree with this. Our biggest problem at the moment is the missing core of players in the 23 to 27 age group that should be shouldering the load now being carried solely by Boyd and co and a group of kids 20 and under.
The group of player such as Farren Ray (no. 4 2003), Jesse Welles (no. 22 2004), Travis Baird(no. 46 2005), Josh Hill (no.61 2006) , Brennan stack(no. 45 2006), Everitt( no. 11 2006), Harbrow( no.27 2006 rookie draft), if they had have all made it would have made a real core group that is now missing. Thats nearly 4 drafts worth of talent we are missing. Not to mention the missed picks because of trading for older players who are now gone(Welsh, Mcdougall, Aker, Hall, Steven Koops, etc.
Instead we have a one legged Cooney, an injury prone Williams, Higgins(jury out), Griff, Picken, Minson and Addison. Along with Moles, Sherman and Vezpremi who cant get on the park it leaves the team very unbalanced in terms of age and experience.

Only thing that will fix it is time. And good drafting.

 

[Ant_]

FYi just edited the thread title. The old one for trolls, was like a flame to a moth.

 

[Lightning_Mcqueen95]

I find it funny how guys are complaining about the Dogs as Melbourne have not played finals since 2006 and should be going up the ladder this year. There members must be really Peaved. Compared to us.

 

[tonydean]

I find it funny how guys are complaining about the Dogs as Melbourne have not played finals since 2006 and should be going up the ladder this year. There members must be really Peaved. Compared to us.

Yeah, but they're used to being shit mate!

 

[Werewolf]

I find it funny how guys are complaining about the Dogs as Melbourne have not played finals since 2006 and should be going up the ladder this year. There members must be really Peaved. Compared to us.

Was thinking how their youngsters have gotten quite a few rising star nominations in recent years. Here are their nominees since 2007:

Petterd, Jones (2007), Wonaeamirri*, Garland, Morton (2008), Grimes, Jurrah (2009), Trengove, Scully*, Gysberts (2010) & Blease (2011).

You'd think Melbourne should be in finals contention by now