Tendulkar - The Greatest Ever?

[glenferry23]

This particular thread is just aimed at respecting the man's record against the best (i.e, us for the past 15 years or so)

When judging the performance of champions, we need to give higher ranking to those who have backed it up against the best. As a massive cricket fan and follower of the game, I've watched this man dismantle us from the time he was a 17 year old in season 91-92 (he smashed our 5 man pace attack at the WACA on way to his second hundred of that series)

He then slaughtered us in India in 1998 - leading both Steve Waugh and Warney to state he was the greatest batsman since Bradman. Then, he came here in 99-00 and despite us comfortably beating India 3-0, he still got runs and ended up man of the series

Have a look at these numbers off cricinfo: http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...1;opposition=2;template=results;type=allround

Matches: 31
Runs: 3,151
Average: 60.59
Centuries: 11

All of this over 19 years...and that is the greatest part of this - his consistency. Amazing to be able to perform at that level for such a long long period of time....he has taken our various attacks apart in all conditions home and away (6 of his tonnes have been on our soil)

Its just about impossible to compare batsmen of different eras (especially when many of us probably havent seen the others live)....and its also impractical to cross reference legends of one sport against the other.

What we can do however is just call it like it is - Sachin Tendulkar is a legend of the game and probably the 2nd best batsman the game has seen.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Laxmans effort to average something like 8 runs better than his career average is pretty good as well, Laxman seems to be the one who destroys our side, despite being average against some other sides.

 

[glenferry23]

yep spot on mate very very special has thrashed us around many times. his only slight blemish would be however the 2004 series in india, where he struggled in the first 3 tests albeit he did produce a match winning knock in the 4th test in mumbai (series was lost though)

but laxman's record against australia too is amazing:

25 tests (since 1998), 2,279 runs @ 55.58

career average is 47.40, and 6 of his 16 tonnes have been against us....like sachin, he lifts when pitted against australia. although sachin is the greater batsman, when laxman is on song (as we've seen many times over the years!) he is a joy to watch and makes the game look so easy

 

[aflcliche]

Tendulkar is an out and out champion and one of the best of all time. I hate to rain on you stats, however, I've looked into it to, and a lot of tests against Australia he did not face the best attack - Mcgrath and Warne. Both were absent in 03-04. In India in 98 Mcgrath absent and since 07 both retired he obviously hasn't played against them. Lara faced both in their prime more often. His avg 51 and 9 100s.

 

[glenferry23]

Tendulkar is an out and out champion and one of the best of all time. I hate to rain on you stats, however, I've looked into it to, and a lot of tests against Australia he did not face the best attack - Mcgrath and Warne. Both were absent in 03-04. In India in 98 Mcgrath absent and since 07 both retired he obviously hasn't played against them. Lara faced both in their prime more often. His avg 51 and 9 100s.

hi mate, agree with your comment that he has not consistently played against warne & mcgrath. to borrow a cliche from footy - you can only play against who you play against

but i dont think its fair to suggest he didnt suceed against warne/mcgrath

2 series' in particular that spring to mind are 99/00 (in aus) and then 2001 (in india). in the home series, he played against warney, mcgrath etc and lee debuted in this series. sachin was named man of the series and scored 278 runs @ 46 in what was a pretty average indian team (we smashed them 3-0)

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...1;opposition=2;template=results;type=allround

same story in the away series in india in 2001 (an unforgettable series). sachin here scored 304 runs @ 50.66....the above link shows figures per year (i cant quite work out sorry how to get it by series), so the 2004 results are heavily influenced by sachin's double tonne in the new years test. in 2004 anyway, i think he missed a couple of the matches with injury and game back for the final game, put on a partnership with vvs and we were skittled on the last day

so collectively, his record is still pretty damn good when facing our great attacks....so not quite too sure where this perception comes from that he hasnt performed when mcgrath and warne have played

 

[aflcliche]

Nice cliche use. Yeah I remember that series 98/99. He was really unlucky with 3-4 dismissals. I can't help thinking that his performances are detered because he didn't get a lot of those big scores against Warne/Mcgrath. I look at Lara's big knocks against Aus and they were always in very challenging situations V Mcgrath / Warne, so that influences me too. No doubt Tendulkar could do it too and it would of been good to see.

 

[Indian_Hotdog]

I can't help thinking that his performances are detered because he didn't get a lot of those big scores against Warne/Mcgrath. I look at Lara's big knocks against Aus and they were always in very challenging situations V Mcgrath / Warne, so that influences me too.

Another way of looking at that is SRT never failed in a series with Mcgrath and Warne while Lara did so twice.
Anyhow both are legends and in the same league unlike a certain someone.

Series summary of Sachin vs Aus

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...n=2;template=results;type=batting;view=series

Series summary of Lara vs Aus

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...n=2;template=results;type=batting;view=series

 

[lusheslewis]

Scored his 50th century the other day, next best is Ponting with 39.

A poll here:http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...ries-relights-debate-20101220-1936e.html#poll

Says that 70% of people now rate him as the best ever.

There are over a billion Indians though...

 

[courtjester]

Greatest what? Batsman? Bah!

Barely squeezes into the top 5.

 

[krisholio14]

Bradman's record speaks for itself.

The rest can keep fighting it out amongst themselves.

 

[Spearhead]

India's greatest batsman for sure but lets face it he couldnt carry the Don's bag to the ground!

 

[Zeke]

He's a resilient little bugger, that's for sure.

 

[glenferry23]

not the greatest ever (that's the don!)....but second best batsman of all time i beleive

 

[King Elvis]

not the greatest ever (that's the don!)....but second best batsman of all time i beleive

I'd agree with that.

But Bradman is literally in a class of his own, nobody even comes close to being comparable, let alone better.

 

[Crickfan]

So hard to compare -- too many variables across the eras to make any reasonable comparison at all.

Despite the multitude of variables and things that are different, the reason Bradman towers above all other contenders is the incredible statistical disparity between his phenomenal numbers and between all others who have played the game.

An avg of near 100 (40 points higher than almost anyone else) is precisely what allows one to say that despite the variances between eras, if one were to undertake in such an endeavor, one could safely put Bradman at the top of the class.

Tendulkar as batsman would definitely be in the top 0.5% of those who have ever held a bat but beyond that, there are just too many variables to do any sort of rank ordering.

Players that I have seen (across different eras) who would rate equally or thereabouts with Tendulkar would be (in no particular order of preference):

Viv (the most destructive bat I have seen)
Gavaskar (played hostile bowling throughout his career and as an opener)
G Chapell (probably Australia's best batsman since the Don)
Sobers (any explanation is redundant)

Close calls for Border and Miandad.

One factor that (in my estimation) are slight plusses for all of the players of yesteryears over Tendulkar is that while these players played their entire careers against top notch bowling, Tendulkar played a little more than half his career against top quality bowling (world bowling standards did dip around 2001-2002).

However, Tendulkar did average almost 58 against such top notch bowling as well, so while one can say that the last 40% of his career has been against relatively weaker attacks, one cannot claim he would not have coped with such quality bowling. Also, Tendulkar's versatility across formats, longevity, and a career starting at 16 all add up to put him very much in the elite group of batsmen who have played the game.

Amongst the modern players, Lara (on song, the most beautiful sight to see) is another who would always belong in the discussion.

Ponting (his record in India does count against him in my books), Kallis (not as great during bowling's hey day), and Dravid (not as attacking or dominant as the world's best should be) come just after the list I mentioned above.

 

[Slax]

Greatest ever - someone needs to stop pulling themselves.

Greatest post Bradman - debatable. My top top are
1. Sobers - 2nd best of all time

2. Graeme Pollock
3. Hadlee
4. Tendulkar
5. Muralitharan

 

[Alpha1]

Bradman and Tendulkar in the same team batting together, now that would be drool worthy, don't think many bowlers would escape the mauling with both of them going hard.

 

[aneale]

If you play 175 test matches (as a batsmen) you are going to make your fair share of records, it's hard not too. He should be commended for playing that many, and however many more he plays and he is clearly an exceptional batsmen but 50 100's, that's 17% of his innings which is awesome.

Bradman 36% of his innings he turned into triple figures, on uncovered wickets and with a lump of wood akin to what holds up my letterbox. Tendulkar plays with specially made bats depending on what continent he's playing on and with all the modern conveniences which includes making every pitch a virtual batsmen paradise to make sure every test gets as close to 4pm on day 5 as possible, give him due but he is so far away from being the greatest ever it's not funny.

 

[skipper kelly]

He must be a clear 2nd now. Simply amazing how he has transformed his batting. Looked gone a few years ago. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ROSEMVP]

made alot of runs his runs in the sub continent on dead wickets. i dont rate him that high.

 

[Dr Pangloss]

made alot of runs his runs in the sub continent on dead wickets. i dont rate him that high.

It is ignorant remarks like this that make me reluctant to bother contending that Sachin is anything beyond a good player on this forum.

 

[aneale]

in his defence tho' his record away is just as good.

Home: 79 tests, 6547 runs, 56.93 avg
Away: 96 tests, 7966 runs, 56.90 avg

edit: he also hasn't hidden away from the world and played an unusually high % of games against the liles of Bangladesh & Zim. He has played all comers on all continents and played superbly well everywhere.

 

[Crickfan]

in his defence tho' his record away is just as good.

Home: 79 tests, 6547 runs, 56.93 avg
Away: 96 tests, 7966 runs, 56.90 avg

Not to mention the fact that even on those so called roads, you do need skills to play (as many a great player has found out), especially when the wicket starts cracking from 3rd day onwards with the ball spinning and adding to uneven bounce.

We tend to get stuck in a mono dimensional way of thinking which seems to say that if a pitch is not a green top or does not have high bounce, then it poses no challenges and therefore must be a road.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Tendulkar's played more than 3 times the number of Tests as Bradman, but not made double the centuries. Tendulkar's a fine player but by no means the greatest ever. He's not even the best I've seen.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Not the best ever - but certainly in the starting X1 of all time.

The middle order of the bext X1 is pretty clear cut IMO

Bradman
Richards
Tendulkar
Sobers
Gilchrist


I saw an earlier comment on Pollock - and would have to agree that his career was unfortunately cut short and we may have missed one of the great batsman our game could have seen. I still remember watching him bat at Border's (??) testimonial. His cover drive made Gower and Martyn look second rate - and that was as an older man.