Star Wars The Acolyte

[Forward Press]

To be honest I think i fell asleep during the rock scene of EEAAO, but i'd had a long day when I saw it. No, i don't recall thinking "this is woke". Why would you think people thought it was woke? To the extent it needs clarification (it shouldn't) that something isn't woke merely because it involves diverse characters or a story about diverse individuals.

It was perfectly possible to do EEAAO with any race - but A24 (as they also often do with many of their films) went with a nearly all-Asian cast. Before EEAAO, Ke Huy Quan had not been in anything mainstream since he was a child 40 years before in Indiana Jones. This was your own definition:

doing something for the purposes of a perceived broader social issue rather than the purpose for which you are trying to achieve. I.e hiring people based on race or gender rather than suitability for the role or creating a role to address a perceived social issue or send a message to contemporary audiences rather than suitability for the story.

If you started hearing about an EEAAO-type movie featuring an all-Asian cast that really isn't necessary for the sake of the story, starring a forgotten Asian child actor, you and the other loonies would dismiss it as 'woke' nonsense, guaranteed.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It was perfectly possible to do EEAAO with any race - but A24 (as they also often do with many of their films) went with a nearly all-Asian cast. Before EEAAO, Ke Huy Quan had not been in anything mainstream since he was a child 40 years before in Indiana Jones. This was your own definition:



If you started hearing about an EEAAO-type movie featuring an all-Asian cast that really isn't necessary for the sake of the story, starring a forgotten Asian child actor, you and the other loonies would dismiss it as 'woke' nonsense, guaranteed.

"Story" in this sense is existing story. People can make whatever stories they want about whatever people they want and I champion that, again I am not, and I don't think anyone who is anti-'woke' is anti representation or diversity and I watch a broad base of cinema, particularly a lot of Asian cinema. As a new story, whatever people you put in are true to that story and therefore it is not 'woke'. Plus EEAAO explored themes and conflicts critical to those stories, it was ABOUT the kind of 'dragon mum' standard in Asian families, it explored what it was like for an immigrant family to run a small business in America that is also your home and the source of your livelihood, those were critical parts of the narrative that were because of the decision to tell your story about those characters and the casting aligned with that type of character.

It is different to my examples above. And to bring it back to the Acolyte, my only references to 'woke' in the context of this show are: 1. objectifying male characters while lamenting the objectification of women and 2. using actors race or gender as a sign post for what their actions will be in the show, i.e how all the white males in recent Star Wars content are pathetic or how all the black female villains have some redemptive element because black women can't be evil. The casting of Osha, or Master Sol or whoever individually are not woke and I really like Sol, and don't mind Osha's casting even if I think that she is a bit boring / bland. That is the limit of it for me.

 

[SM]

I tend to find with a lot of this stuff that if people like a product - e.g. Andor - then 'woke nonsense' is ignored (Andor is heavily political, has openly gay characters and a non-white lead), but if people don't engage with a product, then they blame their dislike of it on 'wokeness' rather than critically assessing why they don't like something. Essentially something like Andor was facing an uphill battle for the start, and such was its appeal that it overcame this issue.

Something like Skeleton Crew, by contrast, has a white male lead and somehow I suspect it won't be viewed quite so critically.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Exactly, in my opinion.

Ok. It’s interesting that you’ll make an exception for HotD, even though you admit that it’s likely for diversification’s sake, because you essentially like the way it’s done. Under your definition shouldn’t it also be considered “woke”?

 

[manureid]

Credit I guess to those trying to polish the turd that is 95% of this show so far. It's kind of car crash TV at this point.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Ok. It’s interesting that you’ll make an exception for HotD, even though you admit that it’s likely for diversification’s sake, because you essentially like the way it’s done. Under your definition shouldn’t it also be considered “woke”?

Because it elevates the primary purpose of the show - making a good story. If it doesn't elevate it then I think it's just diversification for diversifications sake which is what you helpfully summarised my position about above. If it elevates the story then I don't think it's just for diversities sake and therefore not woke. So i guess whether its legitimate to criticise something as 'woke' in my opinion is less about intention but about execution. Which, makes sense, i'm a viewer looking to enjoy good content, i'm not looking to television or cinema as some sort of political exercise (Although I admit that others who use the term 'woke' may be doing so).

 

[Exe Gesis]

Why not?

A cliffhanger is fine and expected, just not multiple cliffhangers. How long does one have to wait for season 2? It would've been nice if they invested a bit more story (and more run time) into the six episodes, and less pointless scenes, so that things and characters and relationships were a bit more fleshed out for the finale....whereas it seems there's a lot of ground still left to cover and not enough episodes left to dig deeper.

If they do try to resolve a lot (not everything) it could across a bit rushed/forced.

 

[SM]

A cliffhanger is fine and expected, just not multiple cliffhangers. How long does one have to wait for season 2? It would've been nice if they invested a bit more story (and more run time) into the six episodes, and less pointless scenes, so that things and characters and relationships were a bit more fleshed out for the finale....whereas it seems there's a lot of ground still left to cover and not enough episodes left to dig deeper.

If they do try to resolve a lot (not everything) it could across a bit rushed/forced.

But those 'pointless scenes' are fleshing out the characters and relationships? What has been 'pointless' so far?

 

[Exe Gesis]

But those 'pointless scenes' are fleshing out the characters and relationships? What has been 'pointless' so far?

The trek in the forest for example....they spent far too much time in there specifically with exposition around Osha, to trust Sol yaddayadda. She had a scene with Sol, a scene with Yord, and a scene with Jecki where the same conversation was had and the same final comment/advice from the three Jedi to Osha.

There was the scene in the store where all the Jedi talk to Qimir.

There have been others, but theres a couple for ya

 

[Kellythatsit]

Because it elevates the primary purpose of the show - making a good story. If it doesn't elevate it then I think it's just diversification for diversifications sake which is what you helpfully summarised my position about above. If it elevates the story then I don't think it's just for diversities sake and therefore not woke. So i guess whether its legitimate to criticise something as 'woke' in my opinion is less about intention but about execution. Which, makes sense, i'm a viewer looking to enjoy good content, i'm not looking to television or cinema as some sort of political exercise (Although I admit that others who use the term 'woke' may be doing so).

Ok. So execution and whether you personally can engage with it are also part of it. So pretty much now anything could be considered woke depending on your POV.

Avatar is “woke” because I didn’t like its pro-environment message.
Terminator is “woke” because I didn’t like its anti-corporation propaganda.
Revenge of the Sith is “woke” because I didn’t like it’s anti-conservative agenda.
Apocalypse Now is “woke” because I didn’t like its anti-war agenda.

Does that mean they are not good movies?

It’s completely subjective.

So can you see now where it’s beginning to unravel? You’ve admitted that it’s not necessarily about intention, which contradicts your earlier definition. You’ve also acknowledged that there is an element of whether or not you can personally engage with it. So already it’s gone from something that’s definitive, that can be boiled down into a sentence, into something far more subjective. It’s become a nothing term because it actually doesn’t mean anything measurable.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Anyway. As I said earlier. The whole argument is null because your earlier statement about slave Leia being banned is actually not even close to true.

 

[Forward Press]

The flowchart is quite simple:

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Anyway. As I said earlier. The whole argument is null because your earlier statement about slave Leia being banned is actually not even close to true.

I never said slave Leia was "banned" I said the KK crew jibber jabber on about Star Wars not "objectifying" women moving forward. The whole point is that they're hypocrites.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Ok. So execution and whether you personally can engage with it are also part of it. So pretty much now anything could be considered woke depending on your POV.

Avatar is “woke” because I didn’t like its pro-environment message.
Terminator is “woke” because I didn’t like its anti-corporation propaganda.
Revenge of the Sith is “woke” because I didn’t like it’s anti-conservative agenda.
Apocalypse Now is “woke” because I didn’t like its anti-war agenda.

Does that mean they are not good movies?

It’s completely subjective.

So can you see now where it’s beginning to unravel? You’ve admitted that it’s not necessarily about intention, which contradicts your earlier definition. You’ve also acknowledged that there is an element of whether or not you can personally engage with it. So already it’s gone from something that’s definitive, that can be boiled down into a sentence, into something far more subjective. It’s become a nothing term because it actually doesn’t mean anything measurable.

I consider myself to be objective, so not if I subjectively think its woke but if I, using my excellent power of objectivity, consider it to be woke.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Lol, I was writing this while watching Nerdrotic's Episode 6 review and he played Disney's audio description (for blind audiences) of the swimming scene and it literally reads like a Faery Smut book.

The show is such an easy target for Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker because it is badly written and contains so much nonsense. All they have to do is repeat back to you what happened in each episode, insert some silly clips, and ask why questions.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The show is such an easy target for Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker because it is badly written and contains so much nonsense. All they have to do is repeat back to you what happened in each episode, insert some silly clips, and ask why questions.

I don't agree with every one of their points, and sometimes they interpret things wrong or get nit picky, but the majority of the time its funny as hell. I thought the audio description bit in Nerdrotics video was actually hilarious.

 

[SM]

The trek in the forest for example....they spent far too much time in there specifically with exposition around Osha, to trust Sol yaddayadda. She had a scene with Sol, a scene with Yord, and a scene with Jecki where the same conversation was had and the same final comment/advice from the three Jedi to Osha.

There was the scene in the store where all the Jedi talk to Qimir.

There have been others, but theres a couple for ya

Uh isn't this the character and relationship development you want?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Uh isn't this the character and relationship development you want?

No that wasnt character development

 

[Kellythatsit]

I consider myself to be objective, so not if I subjectively think its woke but if I, using my excellent power of objectivity, consider it to be woke.

Lol. I know you’re joking but it’s amazing how many people actually think this.

 

[Kellythatsit]

The show is such an easy target for Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker because it is badly written and contains so much nonsense. All they have to do is repeat back to you what happened in each episode, insert some silly clips, and ask why questions.

Holy shit. You guys watch The Drinker and Gary the Meth Peddler? The same channels who loudly and proudly declared they hated the show before they’d seen a second of footage? How much objectivity are you getting from these snowy grifters? Is it any wonder you can’t enjoy the ****ing show? Jesus ****ing wept.

Tell me, how many appeals to a character’s ethnicity or sexuality do they make? How many times do they say “woke”?

These people aren’t providing critical analysis. They’re racist ****ing homophobes ranting about the things that make them feel icky, dressing it up just enough to suck in preteen kids and feebs. They’re making bank by marketing hate. They’re everything that’s wrong with modern popular culture.

Out of interest, do they ever review anything besides comic book or space movies? What was their take on the actors and writers strikes last year? What’s their take on the Lucas Star Wars movies? Greatest movies ever? The flaws are seamlessly interwoven into the story so it’s not noticeable? Any comment about the demonstrably poor writing, fires in space, plot conveniences, poor pacing, fan service, Lucas’ “Woke” leftist ideology, or nostalgia driven bias?

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I feel a bit "Meh" about this show. I'll watch it through to the end but it honestly doesn't excite me to find out what's happening next.

 

[Kellythatsit]

I never said slave Leia was "banned" I said the KK crew jibber jabber on about Star Wars not "objectifying" women moving forward. The whole point is that they're hypocrites.

My bad. I misread your earlier post.

My previous points still stand though.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Holy shit. You guys watch The Drinker and Gary the Meth Peddler? The same channels who loudly and proudly declared they hated the show before they’d seen a second of footage? How much objectivity are you getting from these snowy grifters? Is it any wonder you can’t enjoy the ****ing show? Jesus ****ing wept.

Tell me, how many appeals to a character’s ethnicity or sexuality do they make? How many times do they say “woke”?

These people aren’t providing critical analysis. They’re racist ****ing homophobes ranting about the things that make them feel icky, dressing it up just enough to suck in preteen kids and feebs. They’re making bank by marketing hate. They’re everything that’s wrong with modern popular culture.

Out of interest, do they ever review anything besides comic book or space movies? What was their take on the actors and writers strikes last year? What’s their take on the Lucas Star Wars movies? Greatest movies ever? The flaws are seamlessly interwoven into the story so it’s not noticeable? Any comment about the demonstrably poor writing, fires in space, plot conveniences, poor pacing, fan service, Lucas’ “Woke” leftist ideology, or nostalgia driven bias?

Maybe you could actually check Critical Drinker's channel rather than just go on a massive rant. He's reviewed heaps of material other than comic book and space stuff. He's done a few 'Production Hell' analyses such as Fitzcarraldo, Predator, Apocalypse Now, Waterworld. His deep dive on Falling Down was very good.

I often agree with him such as Fallout, House of the Dragon and Shogun being recent good shows. The Creator, Godzilla Minus One, The Whale being good movies. He put me onto little known foreign action movies such as the RRR (Indian) and Sisu (Finnish), which were both lots of fun. He liked Furiosa, Killers of the Flowers Moon and Oppenheimer when I didn't particularly care for them. Whether I agree with him or disagree, his reviews are always interesting.

He's dead right on The Acolyte though. Of course, he's hamming it up, but the show is so bad that it gives him very easy material to take the piss out of it. People say if you don't like the show don't watch it but it has got to the stage where it's more fun to see how bad it can get.

 

[SM]

Maybe you could actually check Critical Drinker's channel rather than just go on a massive rant. He's reviewed heaps of material other than comic book and space stuff. He's done a few 'Production Hell' analyses such as Fitzcarraldo, Predator, Apocalypse Now, Waterworld. His deep dive on Falling Down was very good.

I often agree with him such as Fallout, House of the Dragon and Shogun being recent good shows. The Creator, Godzilla Minus One, The Whale being good movies. He put me onto little known foreign action movies such as the RRR (Indian) and Sisu (Finnish), which were both lots of fun. He liked Furiosa, Killers of the Flowers Moon and Oppenheimer when I didn't particularly care for them. Whether I agree with him or disagree, his reviews are always interesting.

He's dead right on The Acolyte though. Of course, he's hamming it up, but the show is so bad that it gives him very easy material to take the piss out of it. People say if you don't like the show don't watch it but it has got to the stage where it's more fun to see how bad it can get.

Fallout was terrible. I didn't make it past the first episode.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Maybe you could actually check Critical Drinker's channel rather than just go on a massive rant. He's reviewed heaps of material other than comic book and space stuff. He's done a few 'Production Hell' analyses such as Fitzcarraldo, Predator, Apocalypse Now, Waterworld. His deep dive on Falling Down was very good.

I often agree with him such as Fallout, House of the Dragon and Shogun being recent good shows. The Creator, Godzilla Minus One, The Whale being good movies. He put me onto little known foreign action movies such as the RRR (Indian) and Sisu (Finnish), which were both lots of fun. He liked Furiosa, Killers of the Flowers Moon and Oppenheimer when I didn't particularly care for them. Whether I agree with him or disagree, his reviews are always interesting.

He's dead right on The Acolyte though. Of course, he's hamming it up, but the show is so bad that it gives him very easy material to take the piss out of it. People say if you don't like the show don't watch it but it has got to the stage where it's more fun to see how bad it can get.

I used to watch Nerdrotic when he actually celebrated geek culture. Then he got busted for dealing smack to kids, his partner left, and Gary decided there was more money in right-wing grifting. Admittedly I’ve only watched one review by Drinker but man that was a chore. His review was more a rant with the most shallow reading of the film. He spent more time inserting fart jokes between his complaints about “strong protagonist women” than actual analysis of the film. To me he was basically a RLM try hard without their wit or deep level understanding of film culture. Perhaps I watched the wrong video, but I doubt I’ll go back for a second look. Still, I thank you for allowing me to indulge in my rant.