The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread

[OB1]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Are you serious? Every man and his dog wants to take the season opener off Richmond and Carlton and every year there's a half dozen threads on BF before, during and after the match about what a disgrace it is that the AFL allows two mediocre teams to monopolise it.

There's a huge difference between people whinging on BF & clubs actually forming a plan, putting a proposal to the AFL & then making it succesful. I would think the opening game is one that would most certainly be up for grabs to a better offer. Whether your club could actually provide a better offer is debatable. As I poinetd out above you get your shot this year. 2 v 3on a public holiday on the MCG. NO excuses why your club couldn't have marketed the game along with Hawthorn & tried to make it a huge success. All the ingredients possible for a blockbuster are there apart from the drawing power of your clubs. This game should attract 80+ & I hope it does. Get your clubs together & ask for every Easter Monday or try ANZAC eve or even that night. Don't you think the AFL want more sellout games?

 

[stui magpie]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Where possible, and I realise that depending on what day of the week Anzac Day falls it may not always be possible, I'd ideally like to see the playing of Anzac Day matches in every state / territory on the afternoon / night of Anzac Day or the night before Anzac Day.

All gate takings to be split evenly between each club.

For example:

Vic - Essendon vs. Collingwood at the MCG (Anzac Day afternoon)
Vic - Carlton vs. Richmond at Etihad Stadium (Anzac Day night or perhaps the night before Anzac Day. For example: if Anzac Day is on a Monday, then this could be played on Sunday night)

Qld - Brisbane vs. Gold Coast at the Gabba (night or night before)
NSW - Sydney vs. Western Sydney at the SCG / Stadium Australia (night or night before)
WA - West Coast vs. Fremantle at Subiaco (afternoon)
SA- Adelaide vs. Port Adelaide at AAMI Park (afternoon)
Tas - Hawthorn vs. North Melbourne at Aurora Park (afternoon)
NT - Western Bulldogs vs. St Kilda in Darwin (night or night before)

Geelong vs. Melbourne could perhaps play in Geelong or Canberra.

And most importantly....

Fitzroy vs. South Melbourne Districts at the Brunswick Street Oval (afternoon)

Ok.

Explain to me 2 things about this proposal.

1. What's in it for the AFL?
2. How does the media televise 5 games at once on an afternoon?

We currently have 8 games each weekend and 5 basic timeslots, which the fixture works around trying to ensure that there's usually never more than 2 games anywhere on at the same time, why on gods earth would you suddenly try to cram those 8 games into 3 timeslots? What is the benefit?

 

[stui magpie]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Are you serious? Every man and his dog wants to take the season opener off Richmond and Carlton and every year there's a half dozen threads on BF before, during and after the match about what a disgrace it is that the AFL allows two mediocre teams to monopolise it.

I'm a republican, you can have the Queens Birthday with my cimpliments. It's just a glorified fundraiser for the Melbourne Football club anyway, we let them be home team each year and they don't split the gate receipts.

Put together a business case and take it to the AFL and you stand a fair chance of getting it.
And that's exactly what's missing from all those bleating about Anzac day - a sound business case for change. Every single argument put forward boils back to the same thing - other clubs are jealous and want a slice of the pie.
Well sorry, too bad so sad.

Instead of putting accross spurious arguments about fairness and equity which are actually thinly disguised sook sessions, put across a business case that will make the AFL sit up and take notice of what your proposal will do for the AFL, and how it will be better than what we currently have, considering all the stakeholders including the RSL and the media.

 

[Normy132]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

So...what exactly is your argument skipper? You seem to be against Pies/Bombers on ANZAC Day just for the sake of it.

 

[stui magpie]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Where possible, and I realise that depending on what day of the week Anzac Day falls it may not always be possible, I'd ideally like to see the playing of Anzac Day matches in every state / territory on the afternoon / night of Anzac Day or the night before Anzac Day.

All gate takings to be split evenly between each club.

For example:

Vic - Essendon vs. Collingwood at the MCG (Anzac Day afternoon)
Vic - Carlton vs. Richmond at Etihad Stadium (Anzac Day night or perhaps the night before Anzac Day. For example: if Anzac Day is on a Monday, then this could be played on Sunday night)

Qld - Brisbane vs. Gold Coast at the Gabba (night or night before)
NSW - Sydney vs. Western Sydney at the SCG / Stadium Australia (night or night before)
WA - West Coast vs. Fremantle at Subiaco (afternoon)
SA- Adelaide vs. Port Adelaide at AAMI Park (afternoon)
Tas - Hawthorn vs. North Melbourne at Aurora Park (afternoon)
NT - Western Bulldogs vs. St Kilda in Darwin (night or night before)

Geelong vs. Melbourne could perhaps play in Geelong or Canberra.

And most importantly....

Fitzroy vs. South Melbourne Districts at the Brunswick Street Oval (afternoon)

Ok.

Explain to me 2 things about this proposal.

1. What's in it for the AFL?
2. How does the media televise 5 games at once on an afternoon?

We currently have 8 games each weekend and 5 basic timeslots, which the fixture works around trying to ensure that there's usually never more than 2 games anywhere on at the same time, why on gods earth would you suddenly try to cram those 8 games into 3 timeslots? What is the benefit?

 

[Starburns_]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

The AFL keep going on about a level playing field but don't want it in reality. Imagine if the NFL in America did something like this - they would never get away with saying the remberance day game has to be between the green bay packers and new york giants every year no matter what.

Actually Detroit and Dallas annually host games on Thanksgiving, a third game was added in 2006 to appease those complaining, but it's still clearly the poorer cousin game as it's broadcast on NFL network whereas the other 2 are broadcast on Fox and CBS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Thanksgiving_Classic

In the NFL the Dallas Cowboys have hosted a match on Thanksgiving (a public holiday) every year since 1966.


The Detroit Lions have hosted a match on Thanksgiving since before WWII.


Oops.

Beat me to it.

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Give yourself as many ticks as you like but you keep missing the point.

How can I miss the point when I made the points and you responded without actually addressing any of them.

Essendon & Collingwood are not denying other clubs the chance to play on public holidays & certainly not ANZAC Day.

Bingo, the AFL are doing it. Never once did I say it was Essendon or Collingwoods fault or problem. You only assume I am saying that because you don't read what is posted.

Your club for example

Again you fail to read what is posted. I said other Melbourne clubs.

You also keep ignoring the fact about both clubs support base & in particular membership. The 2 clubs have over 100K members. To suggest that we are somehow hogging all the neutrals & this is what makes the day popular is complete ignorance.

Never said that. Again it's your failure to read that is letting you down. I said because it is a public holiday a huge amount of neutrals will attend. This is evident by the drop off in crowds at other Essendon V Collingwood games.

More neutrals will go to the footy on a public holiday than otherwise.

I've never suggested that Essendon or Collingwood own the draw but they do own the right to say they have worked to make the game what it is today. They own the right to say we made this game a success & we believe we should keep it.

The other Melbourne clubs also own the right to ask if they can play on Anzac Day at the MCG.

Every other club has the right to try to make their own blockbusters annual events

Only in unfair draw.

I know its a difficult concept for a Swans fan to grasp but this is a competition.

Competition implies fairness. You want fairness for Collingwood and Essendon because 'they made the day' but don't consider fairness across the board.

You are free to compete against us for the neutrals all you like.

Last time I looked Sydney is in Sydney. Failure to read once again.

In fact you are welcome to take them & give us 100,000 seats sold exclusively to club members. I'd take that over neutrals who really only detract from the atmosphere.

You wouldn't get near 90,000. You don't any other time.

By your logic this should attract a sell out crowd shouldn't it or will the army of neutrals be suffering from big game fatigue?

Never said that. Once again failure to read. I said more neutrals will go because its a public holiday. Never mentioned sell out crowd ever. Clubs that might only attract 30k would get 40-45k on this public holiday. Which in turn all goes back to my point about these Melbourne clubs being denied access to these people because of the AFL maximum revenue policy.

 

[Normy132]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

So...what exactly is your argument skipper? You seem to be against Pies/Bombers on ANZAC Day just for the sake of it.

 

[sports_shooter]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

What I don't understand and we get it every single bloody year is the supporters (if you could call them that) of the other Victorian teams going on about sharing ANZAC Day.
YOU HAD A CHANCE!
Collingwood & Essendon weren't the first 2 clubs to play of this day, it was shared around and apart from 1 freak year it was a dud day for football.
I remember crowds of 30,000 out at VFL park.
Collingwood & Essendon put their heads together and came up with the day as it is. They made the day that it is today, why should any other club have the right to share in it?

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

So...what exactly is your argument skipper? You seem to be against Pies/Bombers on ANZAC Day just for the sake of it.

That would be a good enough reason don't you think.

No mate, I am not against these 2 clubs at all. (its the BF way. If you post something that can slightly be seen as against then you cop the endless rants regardless of what has actually been posted. Throw in a few insults about the poster and their club and the process is complete). But I am not even arguing because the other person is not even bothering to read what I say. He/she just assumes I am against the 2 clubs and goes off on a rant.

What I am against is bullshit draws and the AFL turning the game into a money making machine regardless of fairness. I also laugh every year when 'some' Essendon and Collingwood fans believe they have a given right to play on Anzac Day and that they are the only ones that rock up for the game.

Otherwise its a game of footy so I will watch it and would attend if I was in Melbourne.

Also it was a poor analogy by Sir James Hird.

 

[Starburns_]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

TBH, I'm not sure. I've always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the ANZAC medal was awarded in the game between the Bombers and Pies. I'm referring to the fact it's the ANZAC medal- not the awarding of a medal.

This is the only thing about the ANZAC day match that I've had a problem with, it just seems to imply that it's more than just a medal for being BOG in a game of football, that it carries some extra significance. Maybe it's as simple as changing the name of it to the "ANZAC Day Medal" or something.

 

[OB1]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

How can I miss the point when I made the points and you responded without actually addressing any of them.

Bingo, the AFL are doing it. Never once did I say it was Essendon or Collingwoods fault or problem. You only assume I am saying that because you don't read what is posted.

Again you fail to read what is posted. I said other Melbourne clubs.

Never said that. Again it's your failure to read that is letting you down. I said because it is a public holiday a huge amount of neutrals will attend. This is evident by the drop off in crowds at other Essendon V Collingwood games.

More neutrals will go to the footy on a public holiday than otherwise.

The other Melbourne clubs also own the right to ask if they can play on Anzac Day at the MCG.

Only in unfair draw.

Competition implies fairness. You want fairness for Collingwood and Essendon because 'they made the day' but don't consider fairness across the board.

Last time I looked Sydney is in Sydney. Failure to read once again.

Never said that. Once again failure to read. I said more neutrals will go because its a public holiday. Never mentioned sell out crowd ever. Clubs that might only attract 30k would get 40-45k on this public holiday. Which in turn all goes back to my point about these Melbourne clubs being denied access to these people because of the AFL maximum revenue policy.

I hate to be the one to break it to you Skipper but your post is nothing but rehashed whinge feintly disguised. You act as though you've provided some unique insight that we should all ponder. Instead all you've done is ignored facts & then complained because I'm not responding to the issues you want to talk about in the manner you want. You keep trying to say neutrals are the reason the game is big but ignore the drawing power of both sides. You complain about the AFL's control of the fixture & then fail to address your own clubs considerations. You say the AFL is denying other clubs the chance to capitalise on public holidays but then ignore the reality that many clubs including your own have been given the oportunity to play on every public holiday (bar good Friday). Really all you are doing is giving yet another baseless whinge. You may think you're providing more & I'm not reading it but thats your shortcomming, not mine. Your position has no substance.

We all know the AFL controls the draw to maximise revenue for themselves so as long as they do every club has the same opportunity to be a part of that. Again you have ignored your own clubs fixturing advantages (the stand alone split round against Collingwood). This is an idea that your clubs have supported & the AFL have complied. How exactly can you say the AFL control the draw to maximise revenue & then not recognise that they would do it regardless of the the teams involved. Are you suggesting that its the AFL showing favoritism to Collingwood & Essendon?

You wouldn't get near 90,000. You don't any other time.

BTW your ignorance is boundless - Mon 12-Apr-1993 2:08 PM Att:87,638 Venue: M.C.G. Thats just 2 years before the 1st ANZAC Day clash.
If you honestly believe that 2 clubs with 116,824 members between them couldn't attract 90,000 non neutral supporters then you are a complete fool.

 

[Scotland]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

What I am against is bullshit draws and the AFL turning the game into a money making machine regardless of fairness. I also laugh every year when 'some' Essendon and Collingwood fans believe they have a given right to play on Anzac Day and that they are the only ones that rock up for the game.

Somebody gets it.

No club 'deserves' ANZAC Day, that's just plain insulting.

If we can't play footy on Good Friday (a day of religious significance in a country that in the 21st century is relatively agnostic) it seems hypocritical that we can deliberately use arguably the most important day of national significance to further the AFL's desire for 'blockbuster footy'.

 

[thejester]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

There's a huge difference between people whinging on BF & clubs actually forming a plan, putting a proposal to the AFL & then making it succesful. I would think the opening game is one that would most certainly be up for grabs to a better offer. Whether your club could actually provide a better offer is debatable. As I poinetd out above you get your shot this year. 2 v 3on a public holiday on the MCG. NO excuses why your club couldn't have marketed the game along with Hawthorn & tried to make it a huge success. All the ingredients possible for a blockbuster are there apart from the drawing power of your clubs. This game should attract 80+ & I hope it does. Get your clubs together & ask for every Easter Monday or try ANZAC eve or even that night. Don't you think the AFL want more sellout games?

I'm a republican, you can have the Queens Birthday with my cimpliments. It's just a glorified fundraiser for the Melbourne Football club anyway, we let them be home team each year and they don't split the gate receipts.

Put together a business case and take it to the AFL and you stand a fair chance of getting it.
And that's exactly what's missing from all those bleating about Anzac day - a sound business case for change. Every single argument put forward boils back to the same thing - other clubs are jealous and want a slice of the pie.
Well sorry, too bad so sad.

Instead of putting accross spurious arguments about fairness and equity which are actually thinly disguised sook sessions, put across a business case that will make the AFL sit up and take notice of what your proposal will do for the AFL, and how it will be better than what we currently have, considering all the stakeholders including the RSL and the media.

I guess you can both be forgiven for leaping into your stock defence of the current Anzac Day arrangements given that these threads always dissolve into a shitfight that covers the same ground. My post doesn't have anything to do with wanting Geelong to have a role in the season opener, Anzac Day or any of the other 'marquee' fixtures. The guy I replied to stated that no-one objected to the 'ownership' of games like the season opener and that this proved any objection to the current Anzac Day arrangement was motivated by jealousy. I countered by pointing out that that is a flat out lie - EVERY YEAR on BF there has been a thread bemoaning the Richmond/Carlton opener and questioning why it can't be a fixture that is actually competitive (the GF rematch is usually the favourite option).

FWIW I favour that GF rematch option for the opening round and I have no objection to the existing Anzay Day arrangement - in fact I'd prefer Geelong stay the hell out of it. Don't have a problem with acknowledging the fallen pre-game through the minutes silence, the last post and the ode to the fallen, but the increasingly bizarre linkages that are drawn between the game and our military history are pretty ordinary.

 

[Normy132]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Fair enough skipper. However, I don't blame the AFL for putting their two biggest Victorian clubs on their biggest matchday of the year. Fair or unfair, they'd be stupid not to take up such a massive money-making opportunity.

It's annoying though that opposition supporters complain about wanting ANZAC Day and nothing else. If Good Friday became available would the Dogs or Kangaroos or Power jump at it? Or would it be the usual suspects (Pies, Bombers, Hawks, Blues, Tigers)? I have no doubt it would be the latter.

 

[stui magpie]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

I guess you can both be forgiven for leaping into your stock defence of the current Anzac Day arrangements given that these threads always dissolve into a shitfight that covers the same ground. My post doesn't have anything to do with wanting Geelong to have a role in the season opener, Anzac Day or any of the other 'marquee' fixtures. The guy I replied to stated that no-one objected to the 'ownership' of games like the season opener and that this proved any objection to the current Anzac Day arrangement was motivated by jealousy. I countered by pointing out that that is a flat out lie - EVERY YEAR on BF there has been a thread bemoaning the Richmond/Carlton opener and questioning why it can't be a fixture that is actually competitive (the GF rematch is usually the favourite option).

FWIW I favour that GF rematch option for the opening round and I have no objection to the existing Anzay Day arrangement - in fact I'd prefer Geelong stay the hell out of it. Don't have a problem with acknowledging the fallen pre-game through the minutes silence, the last post and the ode to the fallen, but the increasingly bizarre linkages that are drawn between the game and our military history are pretty ordinary.

Apologies, only the part of my post that referred to Queens Birthday was aimed at you, the rest of it was a general comment.

 

[Starburns_]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

The ANZAC day match is far different now than to when it started in 1995, and that's a credit to Collingwood, Essendon, the AFL, RSL, ADF and anyone else involved in the day. I'm a neutral supporter who goes to the game (and each year there's even more neutrals choosing that option), but personally, I wouldn't attend if it stopped being Collingwood vs Essendon (unless Richmond were playing). In my opinion, the match would stop being "special" (for wont of a better word), I wonder if other neutral supporters would feel the same.

Also, doesn't "sharing" the game around amongst clubs for the gate receipts cheapen the significance of the day? At least with the yearly tradition of the same two teams it acts as a genuine tribute that just happens to be incredibly profitable, something that I doubt a rotation of teams could maintain.

Then of course there's the entirely plausible hypothetical of if a low-drawing club got the game, and only drew 40,000 that they would run screaming to the AFL, "we didn't make enough from the gate this year, next time we want to be playing against Collingwood or Essendon!"

Just leave it as it is.

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Instead all you've done is ignored facts & then complained because I'm not responding to the issues you want to talk about in the manner you want.

Not complaining at all. You responded to me remember.

We all know the AFL controls the draw to maximise revenue for themselves

So you agree with me. Cheers.

BTW your ignorance is boundless - Mon 12-Apr-1993 2:08 PM Att:87,638 Venue: M.C.G. Thats just 2 years before the 1st ANZAC Day clash.
If you honestly believe that 2 clubs with 116,824 members between them couldn't attract 90,000 non neutral supporters then you are a complete fool.

They haven't as yet. As I said you wouldn't get near 90,000. You don't any other time.

Last 10 non Anzac Day home and away games.

2010 - 59277 18th biggest H&A crowd.
2009 - 77699 6th
2008 - 64785 10th
2007 - 65531 7th
2006 - 62940 6th
2005 - 52507 8th
2004 - 52983 8th
2003 - 68381 2nd
2002 - 69613 2nd
2001 - 71518 8th

There would be plenty of neutrals in these crowds as well.

You do know how stupid it sounds adding 2 membership numbers together and saying this is what the crowd would be.

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

1. Anzac Day at the MCG should feature Victorian clubs.

2. The Victorian clubs should be perferming well to ensure a quality spectacle.

3. The "Grand Final Replay" is a signature event in it's own right.

---------------------

Conclusion: Anzac Day should be made up of the two highest finishing Victorian clubs from the previous year, excluding Grand Finalists.

Every high performing Vic club will either make the Grand Final, or if they just miss out, they can have Anzac Day

- Perhaps this setup could only involve the top 6 crowd drawing clubs from Victoria, so as to avoid a North vs Bulldogs scenario, with all due respect

 

[markjjj]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

What I don't understand and we get it every single bloody year is the supporters (if you could call them that) of the other Victorian teams going on about sharing ANZAC Day.
YOU HAD A CHANCE!
Collingwood & Essendon weren't the first 2 clubs to play of this day, it was shared around and apart from 1 freak year it was a dud day for football.
I remember crowds of 30,000 out at VFL park.
Collingwood & Essendon put their heads together and came up with the day as it is. They made the day that it is today, why should any other club have the right to share in it?

People such as yourself and your President are the reason so many people hate the Pies.

Complete arrogance

Eddie stated on MMM that only 2 teams could fill the MCG.........WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Carl v Rich
Carl v Coll
Carl v ESS
Gee v Hawks
ST K v Gee
Ess v Rich
Ess v Gee
Ess v Hawks

i could go on and on
the fact is...it's not your "right". As your coach stated, its a "priveledge".
He can see the flaws in the current set up. Perhaps he's just posturing for when he's coaching elsewhere next season.

 

[Air_Chester]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Add Mick Malthouse to the "Anzac Day for everyone" bandwagon...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...h-mick-malthouse/story-e6frf9jf-1226042426635

And he's a man who clearly has a true understanding of the meaning of the day.

My thoughts are simple. Anzac Day has provided the most amazing atmosphere for football I've ever been to, it has a great sense of national pride, it helps instill upon younger people what the day is meant to be about where they usually would not have as much interest. It should be played and celebrated wherever possible, and tribute paid by all those who attend.

BUT... The MCG is booked for Essendon and Collingwood. Play at Etihad, play in NSW, play in QLD, WA, SA, Tasmania and Darwin. Play wherever possible. But tradition is what it is, and Collingwood and Essendon have built a tradition, a great one, it just requires the use of the biggest ground. If by some chance I couldn't go to the G, I'd go watch North vs. St.Kilda or whoever at Etihad without a second thought.

 

[niceslacks]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Not complaining at all. You responded to me remember.




So you agree with me. Cheers.




They haven't as yet. As I said you wouldn't get near 90,000. You don't any other time.

Last 10 non Anzac Day home and away games.

2010 - 59277 18th biggest H&A crowd.
2009 - 77699 6th
2008 - 64785 10th
2007 - 65531 7th
2006 - 62940 6th
2005 - 52507 8th
2004 - 52983 8th
2003 - 68381 2nd
2002 - 69613 2nd
2001 - 71518 8th

There would be plenty of neutrals in these crowds as well.

You do know how stupid it sounds adding 2 membership numbers together and saying this is what the crowd would be.

I am not fussed one way or the other because le's face it, on current form I wouldn't mind being one of the clubs that only has to play Collingwood once in a season, but those matches are all the second meeting of the sides in a season when the ladder is pretty much established, and I'm pretty sure at a different time of day (night is for TV, not bigger crowds especially families), and takes away from the fact that there are a number of Essendon and Collingwood supporters that might do the clash once in a year rather than twice.

I am not sure it is fair to compare the two, because I think if you put Bombers Collingwood on a big Saturday afternoon in round 3 you would get a much bigger crowd than those figures shown for the later game.

 

[Dave]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

They haven't as yet. As I said you wouldn't get near 90,000. You don't any other time.

Last 10 non Anzac Day home and away games.

Go back before that. Prior to the two clubs being scheduled on Anzac Day every year, the 5 H&A matches scheduled at the MCG in the 90's attracted on average 82K, with three of them in excess of 87K.

FWIW have no issue with other clubs playing on ANZAC day. If the AFL want to change the current setup that's up to them.

 

[The Press]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Can anyone explain why the game is on monday but anzac day is tuesday?

 

[TeamHurley]

Re: The Annual ANZAC DAY Thread - Edition 2011

Can anyone explain why the game is on monday but anzac day is tuesday?

Anzac day is 25th (Monday)

we are getting the holiday on tuesday because ANZAC day is on one of the easter holidays.