The Association Football AFL Thread 3.0

[Misher]

The Hawks, Cats and Tigers dynasties were built on draft picks. Cotchin and Martin didn’t fall from thin air

Lol wtf kind of response is this? I never said trade away all your draft picks. I’m saying draft picks are overrated. I’d much prefer a sure thing over a lottery ticket.

As a supporter of a club that selected Tambling over Franklin, Fiora over Pavlich, Griffiths over Fyfe, Lennon over Cripps and Conca over Heppell, I know all too well about how you can completely butcher a pick.

And I highly doubt you’ll find a Richmond supporter who regrets trading away pick six for Dion Prestia. Ditto with Geelong and whatever they gave up for Cameron.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Lol wtf kind of response is this? I never said trade away all your draft picks. I’m saying draft picks are overrated. I’d much prefer a sure thing over a lottery ticket.

As a supporter of a club that selected Tambling over Franklin, Fiora over Pavlich, Griffiths over Fyfe, Lennon over Cripps and Conca over Heppell, I know all too well about how you can completely butcher a pick.

And I highly doubt you’ll find a Richmond supporter who regrets trading away pick six for Dion Prestia. Ditto with Geelong and whatever they gave up for Cameron.

Well obviously someone like Cameron and Danger were a certainty. But not sure how anyone can ever say draft picks are overrated.

The cats were built on father sons and the Hawks on priority picks.

Couple of key drafts in ‘99 and ‘01 year - they drafted Ling, Corey, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Rooke

And priority picks were still draft picks

 

[SM]

Well obviously someone like Cameron and Danger were a certainty. But not sure how anyone can ever say draft picks are overrated.

Couple of key drafts in ‘99 and ‘01 year - they drafted Ling, Corey, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Rooke

And priority picks were still draft picks

And Hawthorn still only got buddy because Richmond ****ed up. We got Chad at 39.

 

[Magma]

Harrison Petty .

still time

 

[Misher]

Well obviously someone like Cameron and Danger were a certainty. But not sure how anyone can ever say draft picks are overrated.

Couple of key drafts in ‘99 and ‘01 year - they drafted Ling, Corey, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Rooke

And priority picks were still draft picks

In this thread someone scoffed at giving up more than one first rounder for Chad Warner, who is one of the best players in the comp at 23. That’s an example of overrating the value of draft picks.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

And Hawthorn still only got buddy because Richmond ****ed up. We got Chad at 39.

not sure this adds much to the argument. Hawks built from the draft and it was more than just Buddy

In this thread someone scoffed at giving up more than one first rounder for Chad Warner, who is one of the best players in the comp at 23. That’s an example of overrating the value of draft picks.

Nah don’t think anyone said that. Someone clearly joked about Gibbs.

 

[SM]

not sure this adds much to the argument. Hawks built from the draft and it was more than just Buddy


Nah don’t think anyone said that. Someone clearly joked about Gibbs.

Jatz said he's not worth two first rounders.

The comment on buddy is making the point Richmond could have taken him and suddenly hawthorn's pick is worth a whole lot less. You said it yourself a sure thing like a danger or Cameron is worth more than picks and warner is in that category.

 

[Misher]

not sure this adds much to the argument. Hawks built from the draft and it was more than just Buddy


Nah don’t think anyone said that. Someone clearly joked about Gibbs.

What’s your interpretation of that?

 

[DBAH0]

That’s strange, now only Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton and Collingwood’s can be seen and the rest seem to have just disappeared. Maybe they’ve deleted.

Final results.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The Hawks, Cats and Tigers dynasties were built on draft picks. Cotchin and Martin didn’t fall from thin air

Well obviously someone like Cameron and Danger were a certainty. But not sure how anyone can ever say draft picks are overrated.

Couple of key drafts in ‘99 and ‘01 year - they drafted Ling, Corey, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Rooke

And priority picks were still draft picks

All premiership teams are in some shape or form built on the draft as all clubs have to draft footballers.

Our 3 flags had a highest pick of no.7. Two F/S that may have gone higher under different systems, two that weren't rated highly and picking the eyes out two drafts in particular, shrewd trades and later picks.

Our last flag was built on trades and rookies. Stanley, Tuohy, Cameron, Smith, Stengle, Rohan, Dangerfield all from other clubs. Atkins, Henry, Guthrie, O'Connor, Blicavs and Close as rookies. Kolodjashnij #41, Stewart #40, Miers #57, Bews #78. Only Selwood #7, SDK #19 and Parfitt #26 were reasonably high picks.

And yes draft picks are severely overrated.
Warner is worth two first rounders quite comfortably. Probably not in my final 22 but would be in my AA squad 40 at this stage with a decade of footy left in him.

 

[jod23]

Final results.

View attachment 2025138

Nice to be playing finals again.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Jatz said he's not worth two first rounders.

The comment on buddy is making the point Richmond could have taken him and suddenly hawthorn's pick is worth a whole lot less. You said it yourself a sure thing like a danger or Cameron is worth more than picks and warner is in that category.

I’d say Warner is definitely worth at least two firsts.

I suppose in general it also depends on the picks as well. Two top ten picks and that’s a big haul.

Dangerfield was for picks 9, late 20s and a no name mid - Cats won that by a mile.

Even Cameron - three firsts but they were picks 13, 15 & 20. Not great for GWS but they had no choice after matching Cats bid

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Dude, you're doing the impossible.
Making me agree with Gosha and that's not good, he ain't that bright.

All premiership teams are in some shape or form built on the draft as all clubs have to draft footballers.

Our 3 flags had a highest pick of no.7. Two F/S that may have gone higher under different systems, two that weren't rated highly and picking the eyes out two drafts in particular, shrewd trades and later picks.

Our last flag was built on trades and rookies. Stanley, Tuohy, Cameron, Smith, Stengle, Rohan, Dangerfield all from other clubs. Atkins, Henry, Guthrie, O'Connor, Blicavs and Close as rookies. Kolodjashnij #41, Stewart #40, Miers #57, Bews #78. Only Selwood #7, SDK #19 and Parfitt #26 were reasonably high picks.

And yes draft picks are severely overrated.
Warner is worth two first rounders quite comfortably. Probably not in my final 22 but would be in my AA squad 40 at this stage with a decade of footy left in him.

You had the massive advantage of being a top team at the time FA came in. So Danger, Cameron, Tuohy, Smith, Rohan all easy gets

 

[SM]

I’d say Warner is definitely worth at least two firsts.

I suppose in general it also depends on the picks as well. Two top ten picks and that’s a big haul.

Dangerfield was for picks 9, late 20s and a no name mid - Cats won that by a mile.

Even Cameron - three firsts but they were picks 13, 15 & 20. Not great for GWS but they had no choice after matching Cats bid

So after all that you do agree that Warner is worth multiple first round picks. What a pointless discussion lol.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

So after all that you do agree that Warner is worth multiple first round picks. What a pointless discussion lol.

Huh? I was simply saying the statement ‘draft picks are overrated’ is not necessarily true. Fans of teams that traded for Beams, Shiel, Gibbs and Tim Kelly would agree.

Warner could be like Kelly .. nice player but in a side not as good who knows.

 

[Jatz]

Happy to keep him then.

I think you will.

 

[Jatz]

Be interesting to see what Warner does, he's currently out of contract next season isn't he?

If he is, and he does want to head west, Sydney would be better off getting it done this year I think.

 

[SM]

Be interesting to see what Warner does, he's currently out of contract next season isn't he?

If he is, and he does want to head west, Sydney would be better off getting it done this year I think.

Not really, WCE and Freo will still both be interested so they'll still need to make a competitive offer.

 

[SM]

Huh? I was simply saying the statement ‘draft picks are overrated’ is not necessarily true. Fans of teams that traded for Beams, Shiel, Gibbs and Tim Kelly would agree.

Warner could be like Kelly .. nice player but in a side not as good who knows.

Yes of course broad statements aren't true in every single application with the benefit of hindsight, what groundbreaking input that is!

Draft picks in the context of trading for top of the line players where clubs haggle over picks is clearly what the discussion was about. People overrate the potential of the top pick and ignore the reality of the top of the line player they're trying to bring into the club.

 

[Jatz]

Not really, WCE and Freo will still both be interested so they'll still need to make a competitive offer.

If he nominates Freo, the market well and truly softens.

How many don't end up at a club after they've nominated them? It's very few.

 

[99 Problems]

On average two first round picks won’t get us the output Warner does. Realistically the best case scenario would be one of the picks also becomes one of the best players in the league. Sometimes the situation forces a club to do the deal, but given the gamble involved two firsts for Warner is a bad deal for the swans.

 

[Jatz]

On average two first round picks won’t get us the output Warner does. Realistically the best case scenario would be one of the picks also becomes one of the best players in the league. Sometimes the situation forces a club to do the deal, but given the gamble involved two firsts for Warner is a bad deal for the swans.

Don't disagree with that at all.

Personally don't think it matters what the offer is, you're better with Warner than without.

 

[Magma]

I’d say Warner is definitely worth at least two firsts.

I suppose in general it also depends on the picks as well. Two top ten picks and that’s a big haul.

Dangerfield was for picks 9, late 20s and a no name mid - Cats won that by a mile.

Even Cameron - three firsts but they were picks 13, 15 & 20. Not great for GWS but they had no choice after matching Cats bid

it's pretty sad that the biggest winners out of the dangerfield and gibbs trades in sa were sanfl clubs in sturt and south adelaide.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

You had the massive advantage of being a top team at the time FA came in. So Danger, Cameron, Tuohy, Smith, Rohan all easy gets

Of those listed 1 was a FA (Smith), two were discarded by their former clubs for trade (Tuohy, Rohan) and two were traded for (Dangerfield, Cameron). Hardly a leg up via FA.

In fact we valued draft picks so much less than cap space we traded for two FA in that period.

2015-23: S.Selwood, Dahlhaus, Smith, Stengle.

Vs

2015-23: Leuenberger, Kelly, Dea, Green, Kelly, Goldstein, McKay, Gresham.

 

[Jatz]

Of those listed 1 was a FA (Smith), two were discarded by their former clubs for trade (Tuohy, Rohan) and two were traded for (Dangerfield, Cameron). Hardly a leg up via FA.

In fact we valued draft picks so much less than cap space we traded for two FA in that period.

2015-23: S.Selwood, Dahlhaus, Smith, Stengle.

Vs

2015-23: Leuenberger, Kelly, Dea, Green, Kelly, Goldstein, McKay, Gresham.

Discarded? We still wanted Touhy. He wanted out.