The Castaloy site has been bare for some time. There is no reason the Phipps conspiracy guys couldn't hire their own GPR. (Ground Penetrating Radar) They must have made a few bucks from pushing their Book. Iam very doubtful they will find anything, their story is based on dubious statements.
Unsolved The Beaumont Children
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YaNaNooNaNooNaNooNaNa
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Phipps would have been found guilty if he had anything to do with it. He was investigated on a number of occasions over the years, and various people are still trying to collar him for the BC disappearance.
grandpa simpson
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I have some thoughts after visiting Glenelg beach and reading through the witness statements and suspects.
1-The killer must be local to Adelaide. 'The man' knew the area well and was clearly worried about getting recognised in the bakery.
2-'The boyfriend' must be a teen or young adult for Jane to even be interested in him. No way would a 9 year old be interested in a middle aged man.
Could it be the son of 'the blonde man'.
3-The dad went to Snowtown for work on Australia day. Was working on Australia day common in 1966? He planned to be away for a few days but came back the same day. I wonder if he was called away by someone who knew him in order to get him out of town? It's odd that the kids get taken as soon as he's out of town.
4-Is there a horse racing connection? A witness saw the children walking with a local 'strapper' from the horse racing track and the 'blonde man' with a middle aged woman was with them.
Was Jim Beaumont really an sp bookmaker? Racing connection? The perp could be a frequent track visitor and punter.
kids love horses and maybe that was a grooming method.
5-Does anyone have any info on Stan hart's son 'Andrew'? who was 19 in 1966.
My theory is he is the 'boyfriend' and Stanley Hart took the kids.
Hart is a top suspect for the Adelaide Oval abduction and police always thought the same person is involved in both.
I don't think it's Brown, Percy, or Bsve.
I feel like the 'boyfriend' knew Jane through any of the following Scouts/School/Racing track/beach surf club.
May not be any use, just my thoughts when i was at the beach this week.
1-The killer must be local to Adelaide. 'The man' knew the area well and was clearly worried about getting recognised in the bakery.
2-'The boyfriend' must be a teen or young adult for Jane to even be interested in him. No way would a 9 year old be interested in a middle aged man.
Could it be the son of 'the blonde man'.
3-The dad went to Snowtown for work on Australia day. Was working on Australia day common in 1966? He planned to be away for a few days but came back the same day. I wonder if he was called away by someone who knew him in order to get him out of town? It's odd that the kids get taken as soon as he's out of town.
4-Is there a horse racing connection? A witness saw the children walking with a local 'strapper' from the horse racing track and the 'blonde man' with a middle aged woman was with them.
Was Jim Beaumont really an sp bookmaker? Racing connection? The perp could be a frequent track visitor and punter.
kids love horses and maybe that was a grooming method.
5-Does anyone have any info on Stan hart's son 'Andrew'? who was 19 in 1966.
My theory is he is the 'boyfriend' and Stanley Hart took the kids.
Hart is a top suspect for the Adelaide Oval abduction and police always thought the same person is involved in both.
I don't think it's Brown, Percy, or Bsve.
I feel like the 'boyfriend' knew Jane through any of the following Scouts/School/Racing track/beach surf club.
May not be any use, just my thoughts when i was at the beach this week.
DoubleDraw
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Some good points! Amongst the countless things i've read about this case over the years you do come across some interesting connections e.g regarding your point number 1-Max Mcintyre lived near and was known to the bakery proprietor(Mrs Wenzel) so i think you're right! Accordin to Andrew Mcintyre his father and Munro attended a 1965 NYE party at Phipps house
I'm not sure what the police think; whether they believe the same person was involved in both incidents or not. But in my opinion, it wasn’t the same individual. The MO is completely different. I also don’t believe Joanne was ever meant to be kidnapped. If not for her courage and relentless, heroic efforts to fight off the suspect and protect Kirste, she wouldn’t have been taken
I do like the idea of the horses being used as a lure, thou..Realistically, when we cut right to it; the strapper is perhaps the best lead in the case has? He was directly identified by someone who knew both him and the children..
When you look at the sketches of the two unidentified individuals allegedly seen with the strapper, it's clear that the man in the original sketch and this man could very well be the same person
So who was this strapper, and what do we really know about him?
Unless you want to get drawn into an endlessly evolving narrative, the most productive approach is to simply act as if you didn’t hear what the McIntyre's said. Their claims and descriptions, along with their timelines and sequence of events, contradict scientific understanding on so many levels that I could probably write a whole book just debunking it
DoubleDraw
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Not necessarily disagreeing with you but what do you consider the main timeline discrepancy?
correct!
The guy has gone from athletic and frolicking under the sprinklers in 66. To hunched, stocky and walking with a lip in 73.
Not the same guy!
For the Wenzels sighting, I really need another witness to say they were in that shop and saw the kids. Iam tending to disregard that sighting. It came in way too late, at one year. There is a possibility the witness was trying to insert themselves into the investigation.
The comment made by the sister maybe unrelated to the abduction. "Jane has a boyfriend at the beach" The boy Jane met on a previous visit may be just a friend and nothing to do with the abduction. But it's probably the reason she insisted to go back to Glenelg.
The sketch of the PIO may have a few errors. But the general proportions could be a guide to who we are looking for.
Just have to find this guy out of the thousands that lived in Adelaide at the time. They may have known or met the family on a previous occasion.
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Nearly all of the specific forensic details, such as the blood found in AM's car and the post-mortem conditions of the bodies concerning the stages of mortis that they describe ect) do not align with what would typically be expected based on the provided timeline
DoubleDraw
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yes,good argument to be made re the Mcintyre version.What's your assessment of the other supposed eye witness account from another very young(at the time) person who walked into his bedroom where Munro was apparently stabbing JB??
To eensure I've got a clear and accurate understanding of what the witness statement, I have summarised the key points as follows;
- The witness entered the residence where AM was residing at the time
- Upon entry, the witness observed two younger BC children playing in the kitchen, accompanied by an unidentified third individual
- The witness then proceeded to a bedroom, where they encountered AM and the eldest BC child, both completely unclothed
- The witness alleges that "he placed plastic over her, laid her on the plastic on the floor, and was frantically stabbing her"
- In a state of fear, the witness fled the house and hid in a nearby park across the street until they believed the house was vacated
- Once the witness deemed it safe, they re-entered the house, heading down to the garage. There, the witness reportedly saw three sacks, which appeared to be bleeding (presumably, they observed what they believed to be blood leaking from all three sacks)
- "The witness looked at that," referring to the bleeding sacks, "and was uncertain of what it was. The witness then entered the house, unaware that AM and another individual were still present"
As I'm aware that the remainder of the statement addresses issues such as individuals being drugged. Due to the potential for altered states of perception under such conditions, which could compromise the accuracy of the account, I am pausing here to ensure clarity and prevent the inclusion of possibly unreliable details
Does this version accurately reflect what's alleged so far?
DoubleDraw
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As i understand it your summary appears to be aligned with what is generally known by those on this forum.I suspect that Mr.Hayes(detective) is aware of other details that haven't been released.
( * no. 3)
- Since AM was living at the residence at that time, did they share a bedroom with the witness, or was it solely the witness's bedroom?
- Another thing that stands out to me is the absence of emotional details and other key information. Though they might seem minor, details like the state of the bedroom door are significant. For example, you'd expect mention of whether "the bedroom door was closed" or "I knocked on the door."
( * no. 4)
- This doesn’t make sense to me. No one goes from calmly laying down plastic and covering a person with it and then laying them down to - BAM! NEXT SECOND suddenly, frantically stabbing a child to death.
That sounds completely absurd to me
I have no clue what the psychology on that might be but it l am extremely sceptical of an event playing out like this at all, not to mention AM's non-existent (violent) offending history..
DropBearess ; any insights on the psychology of that^ ?
-There are also many important details missing again; like what instrument was used in the stabbing and where it came from. Moreover, I expect to hear about the emotional aspects, such as the victim screaming or reacting in some way, these critical details are missing as well.
( *No.6 /7)
-
You see 3 bleeding sacks and what?
You don't know what that is? Huh??
This is obviously a constructed story, that doesn't make any sense.
So i'm going to just go right ahead and call this out as complete BS. Name your wager, I'm betting all in
Some good points suggesting the offender used a son as a decoy.
We can rule out Andrew McIntyre as a decoy. He stated he was left home while Max and AM went to the beach.
POI's like Percey, would be considered too old to be a "boyfriend", late teens from memory.
Deiter Pfennig, in the same boat, too old.
Not sure about Stan Harts sons, don't know enough about them.
In this case you have to revert back to the original witness statements. They only suggest the kids were playing with an Adult. Not an adult plus one or two other children. But it would be hard to work out what Kids are with a specific family. As with fun water activities, all would join in under the sprinklers. In all reality there would have been kids running everywhere.
jason_recliner
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Percy's still a possibility IMO. Girls have crushes on teachers, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility Jane could have had a crush on a man in his late teens or early twenties.
Hart..
MO:
Often embedded himself in environments where he could establish relationships with vulnerable children. He was known for his grooming behaviour, using gifts, favours, and manipulation to create a sense of trust and dependency in his victims. Hart’s primary strategy was to ingratiate himself with families, making his victims less likely to report him due to the confusion and betrayal involved in the abuse
Victim disposal:
Speaking only with reference to the crimes he is convicted of) Hart’s crimes focused primarily on psychological control rather than physical disposal. He was not associated with physically killing his victims but caused long-lasting emotional and psychological trauma. His disposal of evidence largely involved ensuring that his victims remained silent, either through emotional manipulation or threats, preventing them from come forward
Dieter Pfennig..
MO:
His approach involved premeditated abduction. He targeted children in vulnerable situations, often ambushing them in isolated areas. His acts of violence were brutal and planned with the intent to inflict as much suffering as possible. Displays clear signs of sadistic tendencies, as his attacks involved significant physical abuse prior to the murders
Victim disposal:
He is methodical in his disposal of bodies. He attempts to obscure evidence and evade capture. He would typically dispose of his victims in ways that reduced the likelihood of the bodies being found quickly, giving him a sense of control and dominance over the situation
Derek Percy..
MO:
His crimes were characterised by extreme violence. He had fantasies involving the mutilation and torture of children, and his attacks were often frenzied and brutal. Unlike Hart and Pfennig, Percy was not motivated by the need to groom or manipulate; rather, he sought immediate and violent gratification through his attacks. His actions were impulsive but exhibited enough planning to indicate he had contemplated these crimes in detail prior to committing them
Victim disposal:
Was erratic in his disposal methods, as evidenced by the manner in which he attempted to hide his victims. In some cases, he would attempt to discard the bodies in obscured locations but not necessarily well hidden, just off the beaten path) but the impulsiveness of his attacks often meant his disposal efforts were careless. Percy was not anywhere near as meticulous as Pfennig
MO:
Often embedded himself in environments where he could establish relationships with vulnerable children. He was known for his grooming behaviour, using gifts, favours, and manipulation to create a sense of trust and dependency in his victims. Hart’s primary strategy was to ingratiate himself with families, making his victims less likely to report him due to the confusion and betrayal involved in the abuse
Victim disposal:
Speaking only with reference to the crimes he is convicted of) Hart’s crimes focused primarily on psychological control rather than physical disposal. He was not associated with physically killing his victims but caused long-lasting emotional and psychological trauma. His disposal of evidence largely involved ensuring that his victims remained silent, either through emotional manipulation or threats, preventing them from come forward
Dieter Pfennig..
MO:
His approach involved premeditated abduction. He targeted children in vulnerable situations, often ambushing them in isolated areas. His acts of violence were brutal and planned with the intent to inflict as much suffering as possible. Displays clear signs of sadistic tendencies, as his attacks involved significant physical abuse prior to the murders
Victim disposal:
He is methodical in his disposal of bodies. He attempts to obscure evidence and evade capture. He would typically dispose of his victims in ways that reduced the likelihood of the bodies being found quickly, giving him a sense of control and dominance over the situation
Derek Percy..
MO:
His crimes were characterised by extreme violence. He had fantasies involving the mutilation and torture of children, and his attacks were often frenzied and brutal. Unlike Hart and Pfennig, Percy was not motivated by the need to groom or manipulate; rather, he sought immediate and violent gratification through his attacks. His actions were impulsive but exhibited enough planning to indicate he had contemplated these crimes in detail prior to committing them
Victim disposal:
Was erratic in his disposal methods, as evidenced by the manner in which he attempted to hide his victims. In some cases, he would attempt to discard the bodies in obscured locations but not necessarily well hidden, just off the beaten path) but the impulsiveness of his attacks often meant his disposal efforts were careless. Percy was not anywhere near as meticulous as Pfennig
DropBearess
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I think the psychology of this would be pretty well unclassifiable if this chain of events really happened. Suddenly wrapping a child in plastic then frantically stabbing them while others were nearby would be a psychological 'one-off' and worthy of an entire conference. Even more so given the alleged perpetrator was a cleanskin prior to this. None of this behaviour even remotely ticks boxes of any known similar dysfunctional crime, probably in the world.( * no. 3)
- Since AM was living at the residence at that time, did they share a bedroom with the witness, or was it solely the witness's bedroom?
- Another thing that stands out to me is the absence of emotional details and other key information. Though they might seem minor, details like the state of the bedroom door are significant. For example, you'd expect mention of whether "the bedroom door was closed" or "I knocked on the door."
( * no. 4)
- This doesn’t make sense to me. No one goes from calmly laying down plastic and covering a person with it and then laying them down to - BAM! NEXT SECOND suddenly, frantically stabbing a child to death.
That sounds completely absurd to me
I have no clue what the psychology on that might be but it l am extremely sceptical of an event playing out like this at all, not to mention AM's non-existent (violent) offending history..
DropBearess ; any insights on the psychology of that^ ?
-There are also many important details missing again; like what instrument was used in the stabbing and where it came from. Moreover, I expect to hear about the emotional aspects, such as the victim screaming or reacting in some way, these critical details are missing as well.
( *No.6 /7)
-
You see 3 bleeding sacks and what?
You don't know what that is? Huh??
This is obviously a constructed story, that doesn't make any sense.
So i'm going to just go right ahead and call this out as complete BS. Name your wager, I'm betting all in
l call BS on every scrap of this nonsense. Even in a practical sense, bleeding bodies in bags on scorching days would begin to smell atrocious in just three hours. I should know, being in a rural situation where even small dead animals need immediate removal in summer. I wish this theory would go away. It just makes $ and creates a false belief the crime has been solved.
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DropBearess
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Just read the posts about Percy after my last response. He is the person I believe abducted and killed the children.
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I agree that Percy seems like a strong suspect, but there are still a few things that leave me uncertain...
Like Derek’s impulsive and erratic methods of disposing of his victims suggest he struggled with handling the aftermath. Given the extensive search efforts for the children and the years that have passed since, if Percy were responsible (and I’m unfamiliar with Adelaide and the surrounding areas), how likely do you think it is that they should have been found by now?
jason_recliner
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It was much easier to dispose of bodies back then without CCTV. They could have been buried on a vacant block before a house was built over their grave.
How hard does the ground become during the summers there?
jason_recliner
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Very hard reactive clays in lots of areas. Not sure if it's sand along the coast. If a construction site, a killer may have been able to take advantage of imported fill/ backfilled excavation.
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jason_recliner
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Isn't there a possibility he was in Adelaide with his family at that time for something related to boating?
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Yes, there was the extended boating regatta at the time
as well as the Test Cricket which he was an avid fan of,
and there are statements from school friends of his siblings saying they discussed what they did over that Christmas period and that a trip to Adelaide was mentioned.
then you have Percy's own statement to he his old friend (who was police officer) that he was in fact at the beach when the BCs disappeared
Oh and the hardness of the soil is irrelevant when at sea...
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