Are you suggesting to something specifically like they were disposed of in the water or beneath the sand?
Unsolved The Beaumont Children
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I am suggesting that it is possible that they were disposed of in water yes. It seems those investigating at the time had a similar thought seems as the police drained the harbor.
Percy was a skilled sailor, hence why he would be here for a regatta... he didn't have a drivers license at the time but he did have access to boats...
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Do you know if percy first started participating in these yatching/sailing regattas when he was living in warrnambool?
I wonder if theres any archives from the national library of Australia or local yacht clubs that might have records of specific participant names ..
Canberra YC and other Seafly Events – SeaflyMemories
seaflymemories.uk
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His dad was a sailing expert and many of their trips revolved around sailing events. Derek had always been around boats but would have only been 9 years old when they moved to Warrnambool so doubt he was competing at that age.
I searched Trove for articles on sailing clubs and events and what I posted above is all i could find on it.
Search South Australia 1966 (Objects) – Search – collections.sea.museum/
eMuseum is a powerful web publishing toolkit that integrates seamlessly with TMS to bring dynamic collection content and images to your website, intranet, and kiosks.
collections.sea.museum
Could be something in here, I've left glasses at work thou so even if there is, I probably won't even see it
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Nice site, a lot of info in there. I just did a keyword search on the entire website for "percy" and nothing comes up. It doesn't necessarily mean it's not in there as google may not have picked up the keyword simply because it has nothing to do with advertising. I will do a manual search on some of the links there but i have noticed many link to food menus and such at whatever events so it could take a while.Search South Australia 1966 (Objects) – Search – collections.sea.museum/
eMuseum is a powerful web publishing toolkit that integrates seamlessly with TMS to bring dynamic collection content and images to your website, intranet, and kiosks.
Could be something in here, I've left glasses at work thou so even if there is, I probably won't even see it
Can exclude any links to navy prior to 1967 seen as he didn't join until then.
The Jan 26 Sydney regatta has peaked my interest because they were living at Khancoban (this was where his sick fantasies were discovered) at that time and that could possibly put doubt on him being at Adelaide's regatta.
Thanks for the link...
Google is helpful, but searching the surface web only reveals about 25% of the entire web. DuckDuckGo is slightly better, but you still won’t find much valuable information using these methods. Search engines only show results that have been "tagged" by someone..
We're not seeking official government records; if we are talking any evidence in this context then it's going to be probably something that looks more like this...
A timesheet card ect^ ...anything that can verify him being there..
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Yeah I use DDG as my default search engine. With google you can search an entire specific website by using site: URL of website keyword e.g site:www.bigfooty.com crime and it will search this website for the word crime. Adding different commands allows ya to basically add filters.
i spent a few hours last night going through some of the links, most are useless for what we are looking for but yeah if we can find something that can negate the possibility of him being in Adelaide its one less possible suspect on the list and one step closer to a possible solution to what happened to the children.
There is still his own admission of being here at time (later recanted), anecdotal evidence from old school friends about discussing their holiday adventures putting him in Adelaide, and the Cricket Test Match. bearing in mind his mother would take him to the test matches in Sydney (I believe to appease her child) 1000km+ round trip to watch the test match? He went out of his way to watch the cricket live.
Anyways still going through that site.
Geographical Profiling
So where are the Bodies?
Just south of Glenelg was a large area of scrub covered sandhills. It's located on the Minda site, a large area that fronts the beach. Personally, it would be my first place to search. Close to the abduction site and easy to dig.
A person staying in Glenelg at the time, it may have been a place they walked past. (15min by foot)
So where are the Bodies?
Just south of Glenelg was a large area of scrub covered sandhills. It's located on the Minda site, a large area that fronts the beach. Personally, it would be my first place to search. Close to the abduction site and easy to dig.
A person staying in Glenelg at the time, it may have been a place they walked past. (15min by foot)
Agreeing that sounds like a place that would be ticking all the boxes.. given Percy's age, limited experience, and likely impulsive nature at the time, it's reasonable to suggest he’d probably have stayed near familiar areas around Glenelg; within abt 10-15 km. This would keep him close enough to places he knew, without attracting too much attention
Coastal spots, creeks, and small bushland areas nearby would be accessible for concealing the children, without needing any special skills or tools. Places like the local beaches with dunes, or perhaps the sturt river or patawalonga creek may offer natural cover, helping to avoid immediate discovery, especially given the extreme 38°C heat
In such high temperatures, Percy might have been drawn to shaded or water accessible spots to slow decomposition and limit odours, lowering the risk of detection. This environment would also mean he’d avoid lengthy concealment methods like deep burial, likely relying instead on natural barriers like dunes, vegetation, or creek beds for quick and discreet hiding
A number of people previously expressed interest in a post I made about post-mortem changes, so I'm writing this as a continuation, focusing specifically on biochemical and environmental factors for those interested;
Biochem decomp;
1. Autolysis (24-72 hrs post-mortem) shortly after death cellular breakdown occurs through the release of enzymes, particularly in the internal organs. This stage would've proceeded rapidly due to hot weather accelerating early tissue breakdown
2. Putrefaction (1wk - several months) this stage is driven by anaerobic bacteria that produce gases (eg; methane, hydrogen sulfide) as they break down tissues, it results in bloating
3. Decay of soft tissues (1- 12 mnths) om beach the microbial and environmental exposure leads to rapid soft tissue decay.. Whilst it is true that salinity can assist to partially preserve tissues by dehydrating cells (mummification effect).. in relevant context, you would expect this effect to be minimal given the fluctuating moisture..
^ if the body is regularly exposed to the wave action ect then soft tissue loss will be accelerated thru mechanical abrasion
Skeletal degrad;
"Bones are primarily made up of calcium" - this is kinda true, but not exactly correct; they do contains calcium but it's not pure calcium..They are mainly composed of hydroxyapatite (Ca¹⁰(PO⁴)⁶(OH)²) and collagen. Hydroxyapatite, a calcium phosphate compound, combines calcium, phosphate, and hydroxide ions
Sand Characteristics
- the grain size of the sand can affect air circulation and moisture retention. Coarser sand will tend to allow for better air flow which'll facilitate microbial activity, on the other hand; finer sand can inhibit it. However, both types can offer some protection to bones from environmental elements
- The chemical composition with the presence of certain minerals in the sand may influence the preservation of bones
Biochem decomp;
1. Autolysis (24-72 hrs post-mortem) shortly after death cellular breakdown occurs through the release of enzymes, particularly in the internal organs. This stage would've proceeded rapidly due to hot weather accelerating early tissue breakdown
2. Putrefaction (1wk - several months) this stage is driven by anaerobic bacteria that produce gases (eg; methane, hydrogen sulfide) as they break down tissues, it results in bloating
3. Decay of soft tissues (1- 12 mnths) om beach the microbial and environmental exposure leads to rapid soft tissue decay.. Whilst it is true that salinity can assist to partially preserve tissues by dehydrating cells (mummification effect).. in relevant context, you would expect this effect to be minimal given the fluctuating moisture..
^ if the body is regularly exposed to the wave action ect then soft tissue loss will be accelerated thru mechanical abrasion
Skeletal degrad;
"Bones are primarily made up of calcium" - this is kinda true, but not exactly correct; they do contains calcium but it's not pure calcium..They are mainly composed of hydroxyapatite (Ca¹⁰(PO⁴)⁶(OH)²) and collagen. Hydroxyapatite, a calcium phosphate compound, combines calcium, phosphate, and hydroxide ions
- Bacteria such as pseudomonas and vibrio species are likely to colonise bones in a marine or coastal environment consuming the organic collagen further speeding up degradation
Sand Characteristics
- the grain size of the sand can affect air circulation and moisture retention. Coarser sand will tend to allow for better air flow which'll facilitate microbial activity, on the other hand; finer sand can inhibit it. However, both types can offer some protection to bones from environmental elements
- The chemical composition with the presence of certain minerals in the sand may influence the preservation of bones
Anyone own a drone and a hyperspectral / multispectral camera?
As a body decomposes, nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium ect..are released into the soil. These nutrients create like "hotspots" of vegetation/ plant growth. Some plants might flourish or grow differently over a burial site while others (which you would otherwise be expecting) might struggle to grow because they are adapted to the imbalanced chemistry.. As sand usually has low nutrient levels; any enrichment from decomposition could be more easily noticeable..
As a body decomposes, nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium ect..are released into the soil. These nutrients create like "hotspots" of vegetation/ plant growth. Some plants might flourish or grow differently over a burial site while others (which you would otherwise be expecting) might struggle to grow because they are adapted to the imbalanced chemistry.. As sand usually has low nutrient levels; any enrichment from decomposition could be more easily noticeable..
I haven't been on for a while, but good to have you back.
I'm still researching my poi.
A very interesting concept. I hope someone has what you need. I will have to look up what it is.
If the strapper was identified, then was he questioned by police?
jason_recliner
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Presence/concentration of chlorophyll can be measured remotely. Spectra can only be measured if light is shining through the gas/vapour. Any difference in dunal vegetation caused by a decomposing body would be long gone.
How long changes in vegetation or soil remain noticeable after burial depends on several factors, such as the number of bodies, burial depth, environmental conditions, and the surrounding ecosystem. If 3 bodies were buried together, the nutrient release from decomposition would be significant, potentially leaving detectable traces for years, or even decades, especially in nutrient poor environments like sand dunes
0–5 years) In the first few years decomposition releases nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium into the soil leading to noticeable growth in plants directly over the burial site, while nearby plants might struggle due to the imbalance in soil chemistry
5–30 years)the the soil begins to stabilise, but the effects of nutrient enrichment can still be seen, particularly in sandy soils where nutrients don’t linger naturally..you might notice changes in vegetation patterns, with some plants thriving unusually well, or certain species adapting to the altered soil
30+ years) decades later the subtle shifts in the vegetation or soil chemistry can still indicate where the burial took place. Even if the plants don’t show obvious differences, the soil beneath might retain its distinct composition
You are correct that the most obvious changes would fade with time, but burial sites often leave a lasting mark on the soil, creating what you could call a “microhabitat” with unique characteristics. In sandy dunes, these changes can be more noticeable since the environment naturally lacks nutrients..
Using hyperspectral/ multispectral cameras, it’s possible to measure these effects remotely by analysing the concentration of chlorophyll in the plants or spotting areas of unusual plant growth or stress. Even decades after the burial, these techniques might reveal patterns or anomalies in vegetation that point to a burial site.. in saying all that, I'm definitely no forensic botanist either, I also dont have any data, only speaking to the best as I understand, not saying you would definitely find something just throwing out an idea that could potentially yield results, especially if the area has been undisturbed..
Wouldn't have any clue..
However my sort of bigger question with that is; okay, you are someone who knows these kids personally, you know the family, these kids are friends with your son and you are positive that you know you saw "strapper person" with the kids on this day and now the kids are missing? If I'm in that position, if I'm being totally honest; I'm probably grabbing a few guys to take with me and then going straight to that person's house and kicking their door open if they aren't fast enough to answer it... then I'll walk them into the police station after that. There is no way that I'm going to just continue to quietly live out the rest of my life if I felt that the police hasn't investigated it ect ect .. < that doesn't make any sense to me, I am unable to comprehend that
This guy: http://www.beaumontchildren.com/beaumontArthurStanleyBrown.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Stanley_Brown
identikit image of suspect.
there's a better picture somewhere of Arthur Brown but cant find it. Anyway, the younger Brown is very much like the identikit.
The suspect that I believe took the children is that prick who owned the castlroy factory , refer to the book the satin man , rich man with rich friends and with powerful people who he could bribe to keep his identity and secret . The cops and courts from those days are all guilty and have questions to answer too . These poor kids lost their lives and their parents lives were ruined at the hands of these pedophiles ! That day changed the way of life in Australia for everyone
jason_recliner
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You clearly know a lot about the subject. My honours degree was in soil microbiology so I know a bit about this too. Adelaide coastal vegetation is constrained as much by water availability and organic carbon content as it is by mineral nutrients. The nutrients from three bodies would be significantly leached, volatilised, bound and oxidised after this long. Vegetation that utilised the decomposition of three bodies would itself almost certainly be decomposed now. Any potential minor remaining difference in vegetation density or composition would be indistinguishable from natural variability.
Remote sensing is nothing like laboratory analysis of trace chemicals in soil. I.e. Burial site soils can retain evidence of decomposition for decades but that doesn't mean it is identifiable by detailed vegetation survey, let alone remote chlorophyll measurement.
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Haha no I assure you my understanding is reasonably feeble, I just have ADHD; alot of very short lived interests
Interesting thou, thanks for the clarification. So... if vegetation based methods are likely ineffective, what are your thoughts on detecting spectral anomalies in soil, particularly in NIR and SWIR bands? Naturally you'd of course follow up with laboratory analysis ect and so on, but I’m curious; do you think any anomalies would appear at all?
jason_recliner
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I really don't think so. IR is heat, so you're measuring the difference in heat of the soil surface. Organic carbon makes soil darker, so absorbs more heat, but can also make soil hold more water, which can cool a soil down. Then there are other reasons soil surface is different colours (e.g. leaf litter), and then another confounding impact of varying incident radiant heat (i.e. shade from plants/trees) spatially as well as throughout the day.Haha no I assure you my understanding is reasonably feeble, I just have ADHD; alot of very short lived interests
Interesting thou, thanks for the clarification. So... if vegetation based methods are likely ineffective, what are your thoughts on detecting spectral anomalies in soil, particularly in NIR and SWIR bands? Naturally you'd of course follow up with laboratory analysis ect and so on, but I’m curious; do you think any anomalies would appear at all?
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Near-Infrared (NIR); for the soil moisture and organic matter?
Shortwave Infrared (SWIR); for the mineralogical changes and salinity?
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