The Big 4 If It Were Decided Today

[MightyHawks]

Carlton had their worst period of their history, winning 3 wooden spoons. In that time, Richmond also won 2 wooden spoons and Essendon were going great either and were close to winning one in 2006. Those figures seem alright for that. If it were Hawthorn or Geelong that won 3 or 2 wooden spoons, then i would doubt that they would get above 30K against each other. If Hawthorn and Geelong were 9th and 10, and if the big 4 Vic clubs finished 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th, then all of them would outdraw the first 2. Have a look at 2005. Bottom 5 were the big 4 + Hawthorn.

For the whole season:
Collingwood: 1003829
Essendon: 979102
Carlton: 821536
Richmond: 802885
Hawthorn: 729754

Average
Collingwood: 45629
Essendon: 44505
Carlton: 37343
Richmond: 36495
Hawthorn: 33171

Collingwood had the highest attendance that year. Essendon second highest. Carlton 4th highest and Richmond 6th Highest. Hawthorn? 11th.

Interesting to look at the fixture and see who teams got to play in the first 5 weeks. In a big surprise you'll notice that Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon all play each other in the first 5 weeks in prime times. This happens every year and certainly inflates the crowd averages.

Collingwood
1 Bulldogs MCG Easter Monday
2 Adelaide Docklands Sunday afternoon
3 Carlton MCG Saturday afternoon
4 Kangas MCG Friday night
5 Essendon MCG ANZAC Day

Essendon
1 Melbourne MCG Saturday Night
2 Carlton MCG Friday Night
3 Hawthorn MCG Sunday afternoon
4 Geelong Etihad Saturday night
5 Collingwood MCG ANZAC Day

Carlton
1 North Etihad Saturday afternoon
2 Essendon MCG Friday night
3 Collingwood MCG Saturday afternoon
4 Port Adelaide Footy Park Saturday night
5 Fremantle Subiaco Saturday night

Richmond
1 Geelong MCG Sunday afternoon
2 Hawthorn MCG Sunday afternoon
3 Bulldogs Docklands Sunday afternoon
4 Fremantle MCG Sunday afternoon
5 St. Kilda Docklands Sunday afternoon

Hawthorn
1 Sydney SCG Sunday afternoon
2 Richmond MCG Sunday afternoon
3 Essendon MCG Sunday afternoon
4 Brisbane MCG Saturday afternoon
5 North MCG Saturday afternoon

Interesting crowd to look at is Carlton v Richmond in Round 18. Only 34000 which is rather low considering that Richmond were sitting in ninth spot just % outside the 8.

 

[slimdusty4]

Who cares about some mythical grouping that has no advantage to the teams involved?

I'd prefer my club's higher profits, more members, better list and more premierships in my lifetime than most of the 'big 4' anyway.

if thats the case, stop living in denial, and arguing the point, which is moot.
the big four is what it is, if your a big four club, you get no advantage, if your not, you get no disadvantage, your just not supported as widely... or your kidding yourself and have a weird and unhealthy thirst for acceptance by peers unnecessarily.

There is only The Big One, and that is Collingwood.

ALL other clubs wants to play us twice a year, as it helps them make more money and brings their crowd averages up.

for now.... i think i said it earlier in this thread, but if richmond made prelims 6 times in 10 years, like collingwood (02,07,08,09,10,11) and played in 5 grand finals, including a draw (02,03,10,replay10,11) i would expect to have 70,000 members as well.

as for being the biggest, you probably are, but there is a very close second, and the only reason it cant compete as the biggest club is because of the last miserable 30 years, and even after that our membership and attendance numbers are good...


scary to think what will happen when richmond lift that cup again...

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

scary to think what will happen when richmond lift that cup again...

Unlikely to happen in our lifetime mate

 

[Papa G]

Interesting to look at the fixture and see who teams got to play in the first 5 weeks. In a big surprise you'll notice that Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon all play each other in the first 5 weeks in prime times. This happens every year and certainly inflates the crowd averages.

Collingwood
1 Bulldogs MCG Easter Monday
2 Adelaide Docklands Sunday afternoon
3 Carlton MCG Saturday afternoon
4 Kangas MCG Friday night
5 Essendon MCG ANZAC Day

Essendon
1 Melbourne MCG Saturday Night
2 Carlton MCG Friday Night
3 Hawthorn MCG Sunday afternoon
4 Geelong Etihad Saturday night
5 Collingwood MCG ANZAC Day

The travel burden on these 2 is immense.

With that draw, you think Essendon would be a chance to outdraw Collingwood in the first 5 rounds.

 

[Slattery_20]

if thats the case, stop living in denial, and arguing the point, which is moot.
the big four is what it is, if your a big four club, you get no advantage, if your not, you get no disadvantage, your just not supported as widely... or your kidding yourself and have a weird and unhealthy thirst for acceptance by peers unnecessarily.

It is a peculiar chip on the brown & gold shoulder.
To today's league that status is about as relevant as Fitzroy, mullets or lace-up jumpers; but certain Hawthorn fans in particular seem to concurrently have a hatred for, & craving for acceptance into the 'big 4'.
There is undeniably giant swathes of supporters of all 4 of those clubs who only bother getting to 3 or 4 games a year.
They wouldn't really affect anything long term - doubt many sign on for memberships
They clearly have zero effect on team success
In fact, bar getting the regular handful of huge crowds which seem to make up the largest draws every year (Coll-Ess ANZAC, Coll-Melb QB, Carl-Col, Ess-Rich, Rich-Carl are the largest reliable crowds over time), it is just a peculiar quirk of history.

I do agree if Carlton, Essendon or Richmond had the same sort of sustained decade of success they'd be rivalling Collingwood; although that's more in the realms of hypothetical than anything.

 

[slimdusty4]

It is a peculiar chip on the brown & gold shoulder.
To today's league that status is about as relevant as Fitzroy, mullets or lace-up jumpers; but certain Hawthorn fans in particular seem to concurrently have a hatred for, & craving for acceptance into the 'big 4'.
There is undeniably giant swathes of supporters of all 4 of those clubs who only bother getting to 3 or 4 games a year.
They wouldn't really affect anything long term - doubt many sign on for memberships
They clearly have zero effect on team success
In fact, bar getting the regular handful of huge crowds which seem to make up the largest draws every year (Coll-Ess ANZAC, Coll-Melb QB, Carl-Col, Ess-Rich, Rich-Carl are the largest reliable crowds over time), it is just a peculiar quirk of history.

I do agree if Carlton, Essendon or Richmond had the same sort of sustained decade of success they'd be rivalling Collingwood; although that's more in the realms of hypothetical than anything.

carlton have made finals 3 years in a row, and have fewer members than us, and have played a lot more finals and have won flags in the last 30 years. they are the 4th team of the big four.

and as big as essendon are, they have won how many premierships since 1980, and have made finals more often than not? ad have only just bigger membership, and attendences, and that is with a guaranteed 90,000 on anzac day.

where as richmond, seem to keep up with the other three, with nothing other than hunger from the devotees. if there was to be success at richmond, i dont think carlton and essendon would be able to match the numbers when they are sucessful, however, the languishing power of richmond over the last 30 years, means that right now we are the 4th biggest of the big 4.

i would like essendon more, and please repot this to your publicity and marketing people at the club, if it wasnt for that stupid laserstrike/army/siren crap that goes on before the game. the cheers of windy hills dedicated cando enough to hush the opposition and their supporters, such "lights and sounds" are too american...

very off topic, but as a footy purist slatts and jade, does that rub you the wrong way too?
i remember richmond used to have one too, after goals the "roar meter"...
just tacky

 

[CF]

it is amusing to find supporters of clubs that are otherwise recent failures try and boost their own egos by fitting their team into some category that indicates they are super clubs and that was based on the situation as it stood 30+ years ago.

meh!

It was recently published in the paper that the two most successful Victorian clubs based on supporter base, TV ratings for televised games, and financial security are (drum roll)....Collingwood and Geelong.

Next, the most successful club based on % of H&A games won, finals appearances, and Flags won since the AFL was formed is....(drum roll)....GEELONG!


So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

But I will agree that Geelong wasn't in any big four from 30 years ago which is completely irrelevant now.

 

[Rioli magic]

it is amusing to find supporters of clubs that are otherwise recent failures try and boost their own egos by fitting their team into some category that indicates they are super clubs.

meh!

It was recently published in the paper that the two most successful Victorian clubs based on supporter base, TV ratings for televised games, and financial security are (drum roll)....Collingwood and Geelong.

Next, the most successful club based on % of H&A games won, finals appearances, and Flags won since the AFL was formed is....(drum roll)....GEELONG!


So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Yeah, that's awesome but it's only reality, imagine if Richmond won like 8 flags in a row, they'd be heaps big and stuff.

 

[Slattery_20]

it is amusing to find supporters of clubs that are otherwise recent failures try and boost their own egos by fitting their team into some category that indicates they are super clubs and that was based on the situation as it stood 30+ years ago.

This was started as an ego-boost by a "big 4" punter?
Interesting.
Do go on.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

it is amusing to find supporters of clubs that are otherwise recent failures try and boost their own egos by fitting their team into some category that indicates they are super clubs and that was based on the situation as it stood 30+ years ago.

meh!

It was recently published in the paper that the two most successful Victorian clubs based on supporter base, TV ratings for televised games, and financial security are (drum roll)....Collingwood and Geelong.

Next, the most successful club based on % of H&A games won, finals appearances, and Flags won since the AFL was formed is....(drum roll)....GEELONG!


So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

But I will agree that Geelong wasn't in any big four from 30 years ago which is completely irrelevant now.

Spot on. It's only really Richmond, Essendon & Carlton fans who are saying they're still part of the big 4. Their desperation to hang onto any bit of relevance is sad. Don't get angry at them, just feel sorry for them like I do. Most of these people haven't seen success in a long time, and are very unlikely too anytime soon. Bigging up their club because of what they were 50 years ago, is the last, desperate resort to hang onto any kind of relevance & pride.

 

[slimdusty4]

Spot on. It's only really Richmond, Essendon & Carlton fans who are saying they're still part of the big 4. Their desperation to hang onto any bit of relevance is sad. Don't get angry at them, just feel sorry for them like I do. Most of these people haven't seen success in a long time, and are very unlikely too anytime soon. Bigging up their club because of what they were 50 years ago, is the last, desperate resort to hang onto any kind of relevance & pride.

its been a very very very long time between drinks for the RFC, and what's sad is that whilst we are down the bottom, and you miss a grand final by a goal, we still pull higher attendances...

i like you donk, but your hand needs to be removed from 'it' on this one.

i believe your term was "game set match".

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

its been a very very very long time between drinks for the RFC, and what's sad is that whilst we are down the bottom, and you miss a grand final by a goal, we still pull higher attendances...

i like you donk, but your hand needs to be removed from 'it' on this one.

i believe your term was "game set match".

Who cares? Hawthorn are financially fine AND making Prelims, winning flags and drafting buddys. Richmond are just financially fine.

I know who I'd prefer.

Carry on

 

[JonoNash]

AND making Prelims

Hawthorn have played in 3 PF's in the last 20 years, Richmond 2. Not a great difference.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Hawthorn have played in 3 PF's in the last 20 years, Richmond 2. Not a great difference.

What a nit-picker...

I thought it was clear I was responding to his comment on us missing the GF by a goal. Guess not.

 

[Jade]

Holy crap this thread is still going....

The Big 4 is a term to describe Carl, Coll, Ess and Rich - but we all know that.

Name it today, bloody hell, whats the criteria? Basically whatever gets my club in there.

If your club is financially doing well, do you really care if BF calls you Big 4?

As long as the Bombers are strong, I hope 17 others are. AFL aint much fun if the rest are weaklings.

Does the thrill of being BIG 4 protect you from getting your ass kicked by the other sides?

Would you change the equality if you could?

 

[Empire_Persian]

The rational side of me thinks this debate is uber-lame, with the insistance that we isolate 4 clubs, - 4 seemingly an arbitrary number as we are not bound to it by convention, and proclaim them the "biggest".

But then I remembered the reason why I joined BigFooty, because I'm a fanboy, like the rest of you, and we live for these ridiculous discussions.

My two cents: Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, West Coast, Fremantle, Geelong, Hawthorn, Adelaide, are all "big" clubs. They tick a variety of different criterion: size, success, finances, professionalism. Some clubs have short-comings, for example, Fremantle is not successful, but this is balanced by their large fan base and large finances. This is why it can be considered a "big" club. Port Adelaide on the other hand is not included, even though it has seen great success, it's size/finances/professionalism are not big enough to compensate. This can be said for the other non-included clubs. Although, the tricky thing is, for some clubs, the criterion fluctuates.

 

[tazhawk]

it is amusing to find supporters of clubs that are otherwise recent failures try and boost their own egos by fitting their team into some category that indicates they are super clubs and that was based on the situation as it stood 30+ years ago.

End thread/

 

[GordonBlue]

End thread/

One has to wonder why this thread was started by a Cats fan, your response is to a Cats fan and this thread is full off Cats and Hawks fans?

 

[simba_]

in summary lets take a look at the big four

carlton
collingwood
richmond
essendon

any questions

 

[JoondalupJ]

Commonwealth the National the Westpac and the ANZ. Thats the big four.

 

[JoondalupJ]

One has to wonder why this thread was started by a Cats fan, your response is to a Cats fan and this thread is full off Cats and Hawks fans?

We love each other.

 

[TigesAreComin]

The big four will always be the big four.
The only reason the tiges have survived such a horrific period of mediocrity is because we are a BIG club, with a large passionate supporter base and a proud history.

We are finally on the way back and when we reach finals, and i am confident that will be sooner rather than later, the football world will be all the better for it.