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Coledinho said:
In reserves if he was getting out muscled he would have been sold by now. Its ******* reserves. Id be more impressed if he was dominating the A-League personally. Its a personal judgment based on those 45 minutes only. Pretty obvious to see his strengths of his game would suit to RW. Just like the very players you compared him too in Silva and Mata (unless they are CMs now?)

As for ADL list how many of those players play EPL football week in week out? Scholes and even he has 16kg on Suso. Wilshere barely plays. Cazorla + Kagawa are playing out wide in a midfield 3 or behind the lone striker/not a CM role. You named 1 CM at EPL level in total there.

Its hardly a criticism. He shapes up/dribbles/moves like Adam Johnson. Adam Johnson also started his career at CM before being moved to LW before finally finishing up going to RW.
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That kind of attitude is exactly why English football has been in such poor shape in recent years. You don't need to be a 6' brute to play in the middle of the park, and yes, all of the players I mentioned do play centrally. You may not be aware but there is more than one role in central midfield, you seem to be limiting your scope to holding or defensive midfielders. Mata, Silva, Cazorla, Kagawa etc all play as attacking playmaker midfielders, but they still play centrally. Wilshere barely plays because he's been injured but was the best English midfielder in the league before he went down despite being one of the smallest. Similar sized players in Allen, Modric & Fabregas have all been consistently brilliant in the EPL playing the more traditional 'deep lying playmaker' role while Xavi and Gotze dominate in their respective leagues despite being even smaller than the 5'9" Suso. For central midfielders, height and weight is irrelevant so long as you have the technique and vision to play there. Like I said, what you'll find is most of these players have tremendous balance and core strength so despite their diminutive stature are more difficult to knock off the ball than players who are half a foot taller than them.
 
Coledinho said:
Because he is trying to say theatrical and diving is different. Its tomato, tomatoe at the end. Valencia didnt dive on the weekend but he was very theatrical yet everyones calling it a dive
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Valencia did dive. The contact was nowhere near enough to take him down, therefore he simulated it. There is a difference between being enough contact and exaggerating it and not enough contact and simulating it.
 

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Coledinho said:
Because he is trying to say theatrical and diving is different. Its tomato, tomatoe at the end. Valencia didnt dive on the weekend but he was very theatrical yet everyones calling it a dive
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Theatrical = Contact occurs, "make a meal of it", over-emphasize the contact but free kick is deserved

Dive = No contact occurs, trying to con the ref into giving a freekick that wasn't deserved
 
Coledinho said:
In reserves if he was getting out muscled he would have been sold by now. Its ******* reserves. Id be more impressed if he was dominating the A-League personally. Its a personal judgment based on those 45 minutes only. Pretty obvious to see his strengths of his game would suit to RW. Just like the very players you compared him too in Silva and Mata (unless they are CMs now?)

As for ADL list how many of those players play EPL football week in week out? Scholes and even he has 16kg on Suso. Wilshere barely plays. Cazorla + Kagawa are playing out wide in a midfield 3 or behind the lone striker/not a CM role. You named 1 CM at EPL level in total there.

Its hardly a criticism. He shapes up/dribbles/moves like Adam Johnson. Adam Johnson also started his career at CM before being moved to LW before finally finishing up going to RW.
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There are some big blokes in reserves or do reserves only play short people?

Anyways, it was your personal judgement based on 45 minutes of football. I know you're not criticizing him which is all well and good, im just trying to educate you on Suso as a player. You have seen 45 mins of him, ive seen tons more.

Suso can play wide or in the middle. He's kinda like a quick, tricky, smaller Xabi Alonso.
 
ADL9798 said:
I think the problem with the Johnson/Valencia penalty decision is that due to the very slight contact made it was a 50/50 call. By the letter of the law it's a penalty but you see them not given often enough to expect that the referee may have decided not to call it.
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I know you are trying to sound like you're not being bias or one eyed but im sorry mate, there was absolutely no contact. It's a blatant dive. Yes im an LFC fan, but I have eyes. I can see the challenge. It's a disgusting call and im sick of United getting those types of calls over and over again.
 
jod23 said:
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Do I really have to post this again. IT IS A BLATANT DIVE.
 
jod23 said:
There are some big blokes in reserves or do reserves only play short people?

Anyways, it was your personal judgement based on 45 minutes of football. I know you're not criticizing him which is all well and good, im just trying to educate you on Suso as a player. You have seen 45 mins of him, ive seen tons more.

Suso can play wide or in the middle. He's kinda like a quick, tricky, smaller Xabi Alonso.
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Reserves play youth players who aree no Momo Diame thats for sure
 
Suarez is paying the price for his (deserved) reputation with a few missed calls this season.

Don't know why people feel the need to differentiate between contact and no contact.

Contact isn't a foul, so if you go down with contact you may well have taken a dive.

FWIW there was definate contact on Valencia on the weekend, not sure how anyone can suggest otherwise.
 

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Coledinho said:
Antonio Valencia = contact occured. Liverpool thread = He dived
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I said it was a 50/50 call as the contact was almost non-existent. It's a subjective call for the referee and sometimes they're given, sometimes they aren't. The Suarez/Evans incident on the other hand involved far more significant contact but again was probably a 50/50 call for the referee. The frustration arises from the fact that if one is given then you'd think so must the other but if Suarez is involved, 50/50 decisions seem to become 90/10 with the benefit of the doubt going to the defender. Referees should not be going into games with preconceived notions about players like this and I'm glad that Johnson & Gerrard have brought it up because what may have been a subliminal thought for referees in the past will now be at the front of their minds so hopefully they will be able to ignore this subconscious bias when considering decisions involving the Uruguayan.
 
moomba said:
Suarez is paying the price for his (deserved) reputation with a few missed calls this season.

Don't know why people feel the need to differentiate between contact and no contact.

Contact isn't a foul, so if you go down with contact you may well have taken a dive.

FWIW there was definate contact on Valencia on the weekend, not sure how anyone can suggest otherwise.
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Given the full time nature of their job and how much they are paid, I'd hope referees were more professional than to allow something like a players reputation (whether deserved or not) to cloud their judgement on a decision. Each call should be made independently and with no consideration other than the 2 players involved in that specific incident.

I make the distinction between theatrics and diving because if a player is being theatrical, the majority of the time the freekick would or at least should be given without the theatrics. Unfortunately the referees miss a lot of these so some players (eg Suarez) feel the need to draw attention to the fact that they have indeed been fouled. If a player dives, for me that indicates no contact has been made and no foul should be given, the player is simply trying to deceive the referee into giving a freekick that wasn't deserved.
 
ADL9798 said:
Given the full time nature of their job and how much they are paid, I'd hope referees were more professional than to allow something like a players reputation (whether deserved or not) to cloud their judgement on a decision. Each call should be made independently and with no consideration other than the 2 players involved in that specific incident.
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I disagree. A players history and reputation should play a role in the decision making. Not the role, but a role. It's only human nature, when someone has tried to con you and your colleagues time and time again to doubt that he's not trying it on again the next time.

Personally I think it's all become too hard for referees to make those sort of decisions without assistance.
 
moomba said:
I disagree. A players history and reputation should play a role in the decision making. Not the role, but a role. It's only human nature, when someone has tried to con you and your colleagues time and time again to doubt that he's not trying it on again the next time.

Personally I think it's all become too hard for referees to make those sort of decisions without assistance.
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Unfortunately despite the video review technology being available I can't see FIFA, UEFA or the FA adopting it. Perhaps if they allowed a certain number of decisions to be 'challenged' in a game as in tennis?
 
ADL9798 said:
Unfortunately despite the video review technology being available I can't see FIFA, UEFA or the FA adopting it. Perhaps if they allowed a certain number of decisions to be 'challenged' in a game as in tennis?
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That would be ideal. Maybe two "challenges" per game, if your challenge is a good one then you don't lose one of them.

I agree with you though, can't see it happening any time soon.
 
ADL9798 said:
That kind of attitude is exactly why English football has been in such poor shape in recent years. You don't need to be a 6' brute to play in the middle of the park, and yes, all of the players I mentioned do play centrally. You may not be aware but there is more than one role in central midfield, you seem to be limiting your scope to holding or defensive midfielders. Mata, Silva, Cazorla, Kagawa etc all play as attacking playmaker midfielders, but they still play centrally. Wilshere barely plays because he's been injured but was the best English midfielder in the league before he went down despite being one of the smallest. Similar sized players in Allen, Modric & Fabregas have all been consistently brilliant in the EPL playing the more traditional 'deep lying playmaker' role while Xavi and Gotze dominate in their respective leagues despite being even smaller than the 5'9" Suso. For central midfielders, height and weight is irrelevant so long as you have the technique and vision to play there. Like I said, what you'll find is most of these players have tremendous balance and core strength so despite their diminutive stature are more difficult to knock off the ball than players who are half a foot taller than them.
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Englands in poor shape? Have you seen Serie A, Ligue 1, Eredivisie in recent years. China/Russia/MLs/Brazil League have growen and EPL is the only league to not only mantain its status but improve. Crazyland if you think EPL football is in poor shape

If height and weight is irrelevant then how the hell is Mauroane Fellaini the best performed player in the league this season. You think if he was 5ft 5 he would still be highly rated? Hell no. Athletic ability is important
 
Coledinho said:
Englands in poor shape? Have you seen Serie A, Ligue 1, Eredivisie in recent years. China/Russia/MLs/Brazil League have growen and EPL is the only league to not only mantain its status but improve. Crazyland if you think EPL football is in poor shape

If height and weight is irrelevant then how the hell is Mauroane Fellaini the best performed player in the league this season. You think if he was 5ft 5 he would still be highly rated? Hell no. Athletic ability is important
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By English football I mean English football and English players, not the Premier League. I agree that is in very good shape. Athleticism is certainly a valuable attribute to have, but not at the expense of technical ability. I just don't think it's reasonable to say a player needs to be big and strong to be a top level central midfielder, and the numerous examples I've given support that assertion. I think maybe you've been watching a few too many of Big Sam's press conferences. Don't let him brainwash you!
 
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