The blamed and the protected

[Anthemy]

lumbering galoof .

rofl.

 

[Off The Couch]

There is always going to be someone who cops the wrath of the supporters.

Now I have been a very staunch supporter of murph and while he wasn't to blame, nor was he an orphan, let us be grown up enough to admit that yesterday he was abysmal.

As for Taylor, my ma always said "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it" on that note I am out of here

 

[randall boner]

the so called blamed are the ones that let us down week after week,yes im talking about TOM MUPPET MURPHY the protected on the other hand,let us down every second week....................... insert your own player here.

 

[HFC082]

There is always going to be someone who cops the wrath of the supporters.

With good reason too.

 

[bowlrig]

Just watched the replay of the game and I think some of the blame here needs to be vented towards the coaches box.
Some very strange decisions made.

 

[Changa10]

I personally am not bashing McGlynn just commenting on his game yesterday. If we had other options to pick from, do you think that his return of 5 possessions would be enough to keep him from a spell with BH?

Lance Franklin - Kicks 4, Handballs 1. Do we give him a spell in the 2's also after 1 underachieving game Captain Crawf?

I understand that Lance has, in the past, won us games off his own boot, and the supply in the 2nd half was terrible, but he has had the freedom to run through the middle when things aren't going his way. So 5 disposal from Buddy is just as bad in my opinion.

Benny Mac hasn't been the worst in his few games this year.

Also, on Murphy. He had 17 disposals at 82% disposal efficiency this week. That 82% efficiency was 5th best for the whole Hawthorn team. The only ones better than Murph were:

Brent Renouf - 10 disposals at 90%
Grant Birchall - 18 @ 83% (To be honest I thought Sunday was one of his worst games. We desperately need his run off half back, and it just wasn't there)
Mark Williams - 9 @ 89%
Simon Taylor (YES - Simon Taylor) - 14 @ 93%

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Murph had a blinder but to say his decision making etc is the worst on the team sometimes gets at me. There were plenty worse than Murph on Sunday.

I would much rather our top 5 efficiency players read more like, Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis and Bateman. Our forwards may be able to kick more than 7 goals then!!

 

[wboolmember]

Tom Murphy is an absolute goat, he just doesn't compete. He simply can't spoil anyone (except Xavier Ellis). That chest mark Mitch Clark took on him in the goal square was embarrassing. He couldn't even effect a spoil on Justin Sherman in the last term. The only reason we beat Sydney was that he wasn't playing, Dew & Guerra were outstanding on O'Loughlin. Beat him in one on one body duels, something Murphy cannot do.

I thought Lewis was good yesterday, as least he has a crack.

 

[lozzac]

Tom Murphy is an absolute goat, he just doesn't compete. He simply can't spoil anyone (except Xavier Ellis). That chest mark Mitch Clark took on him in the goal square was embarrassing. He couldn't even effect a spoil on Justin Sherman in the last term. The only reason we beat Sydney was that he wasn't playing, Dew & Guerra were outstanding on O'Loughlin. Beat him in one on one body duels, something Murphy cannot do.

I thought Lewis was good yesterday, as least he has a crack.

I can't see this sort of defamation as beneficial for our club.
Perhaps Richmond beckons wboolmember

 

[Hawk Presidente]

Good calls by Badesumofu. Clarko needs to introduce some flexibility in his game plan & match day work (unless he is trying to teach them something that is impossible to see).

Starting point - you have to win out of the middle or game over! Last year we destroyed teams out of the middle. Besides maybe the North game and the 1st half of the Dees game we have generally looked pretty average. To turn our season around we have to get back to whatever we were doing in the middle. We had to loose defenders in the back line yesterday. It didn't matter as we kept getting flogged in the clearances.

Key changes that couldn't be worse than the current set up.

Roughy down back allowing Campbell back into the Ruck. Campbell is for mine clearly the best ruckman at Hawthorn (Taylor wasn't even selected for the entire finals in 08). He should push forward whenever possible as he is a good kick for goals. Campbell is more important in the ruck than roughy is up forward.

Hodge into the guts. The defence general is great but with the midfielders getting hammered we need our general in the middle. Sure he can read the play better than most but all that is doing is changing a 10 goal flogging into a 7 goal flogging. Ellis is the next smartest guy at the club. If we need someone to direct get him to do it. Hodge will be 2 busy getting the hard ball, inflicting physical pain on the oppostion and putting the bill lace out to leading forwards. An added bonus is he can kick goals as a midfielder (a trait sadly lacking a Hawthorn unlike the cats).

Willo out of the goal square. What a no brainer. He only needs 5 marks to kick 4 goals. He is a proven gun on the lead. It creates a headache for the opposition coach. Not just buddy and roughy. It doesn't have to be the same each week just give us more options.

Dew - deep in the forward line. A is a goal kicker. He is slow but smart and strong. Willo and Dewy caused a heap of trouble for the kittens in the granny. We need a crummer.

Whitecross for Murphy (poor kid but he was drafted in 04 and still looks like I did in year 10 ie pathetically thin)
McGylnn gone - honest battler aka Tim Clark
Tuck - 2's to learn how to kick
Renough 2's learn how to read the play
taylor no choice until the great white hope gets fit.
Buddy to only kick on his right foot at training until he is half-competant at it (except for set shots)

Play Dowler, Schoenmakers and Muston where possible or out of necessity because they will be useful in 2010. Obviously when Croadie, Gilly, Laddo and Youngy get back they should get back to the 2's and of course the weights room (they aren't the only ones).

Come on Clarko lift. We need you!

Spot on! Definitely need to put Dowler in at least until the big guns are ready.

 

[noosa hawk mad]

I personally am not bashing McGlynn just commenting on his game yesterday. If we had other options to pick from, do you think that his return of 5 possessions would be enough to keep him from a spell with BH?

But his previous 3 weeks was fantastic doing great shut down roles had a bad game as did another 22

 

[Woodside Hawk]

But his previous 3 weeks was fantastic doing great shut down roles had a bad game as did another 22

Spot on, Noosa.

McGlynn has done a great job for us this year and his disposal efficiency is improving (was at 93% against the Crows AND he shut down McLeod).

On the weekend he was far from the worst (in fact, was hardly sighted) so I don't see how dropping him would be beneficial.

In fact, I'd put him on Kerr against WCE next week (poss. switching with Stokes, if fit, as he did a great job last time) and get him to niggle the hell out of him and hope Kerr looses it again and gives away a couple of stupid frees!

 

[Frankston Rover]

I feel sorry for Murph. Put yourself in his shoes. He is a BP at best not a key postion player. But he is doing his best for the team in difficult circumstances. The ball comes in way to easy for the opp, which makes even the best's defenders job a nightmare.

Maybe the clowns in the middle should get there act together and put some pressure on the ball carrier, same with the forward line, where the ball is coming out way way to easily.

And as for Taylor, he does nothing. and Renouf, well he has got me stuffed. We badly need Robbie Campbell back in the ruck. At least does something!!!!

Spot on, TM. Murphy is a BP playing the role of a FB which is unfair. Some of you need to get some perspective. Murphy COMPETES and when he plays on players of comparable size he has shown he is more than capable.

Funny how you blame Murphy when it's the players upfield that were allowing their opponents to deliver the ball perfectly to their forwards.

I thought our midfield was the reason we lost on the weekend. Mitchell, Bateman, McGlynn, Tuck and Sewell were well beaten. In fact, they were abysmal. If anyone should shoulder the blame, it's these boys, not Tom Murphy.

Tom Murphy is an absolute goat, he just doesn't compete. He simply can't spoil anyone (except Xavier Ellis). That chest mark Mitch Clark took on him in the goal square was embarrassing. He couldn't even effect a spoil on Justin Sherman in the last term. The only reason we beat Sydney was that he wasn't playing, Dew & Guerra were outstanding on O'Loughlin. Beat him in one on one body duels, something Murphy cannot do.

I thought Lewis was good yesterday, as least he has a crack.

Did you actually watch the game? Our 'backline' was under constant pressure due to the fact the ball spent large amounts of time there - due to us getting smashed in the middle and not being able to keep it down our end.

How many times did the Lions run through the middle of the ground and go long into the forward line?

I thought Bob, Hodge and Murphy did well to hold the floodgates closed for so long.

 

[Hawka_de_Haven]

I find it interesting to note that when the team plays badly, the same players get blamed, this year its Tom Murphy and Simon Taylor, last season included Clinton Young as well.

But posters here will make excuses for the more 'favoured' players like McGlynn or Renouf or even some of the big names like Sammmy or Lewis who had ordinary games yesterday.

To blame Murphy or Taylor for yesterdays loss is rudiculous IMO, we had less than 4 good players on the day. A club doesn not lose a game because one player was not good enough or was having a bad day.

good call

 

[Goldnbrown]

See post 31 - Blamed
See post 34 & 35 - Protected

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Spot on, TM. Murphy is a BP playing the role of a FB which is unfair. Some of you need to get some perspective.

I don't remember seeing Murphy play on Brown or Bradshaw?

He didn't play full back, he played back pocket and 90%+ of the time it was on a bloke his size.

 

[Woodside Hawk]

I find it interesting to note that when the team plays badly, the same players get blamed, this year its Tom Murphy and Simon Taylor, last season included Clinton Young as well.

But posters here will make excuses for the more 'favoured' players like McGlynn or Renouf or even some of the big names like Sammmy or Lewis who had ordinary games yesterday.

To blame Murphy or Taylor for yesterdays loss is rudiculous IMO, we had less than 4 good players on the day. A club doesn not lose a game because one player was not good enough or was having a bad day.

See post 31 - Blamed
See post 34 & 35 - Protected[/QUOTE]

So...what's your point? Murphy & Taylor aren't to blame but McGlynn is?

There's no doubt McGlynn had a poor game on Sunday. Fair to say Murphy did too. And they weren't alone.

Equally, there's no doubt McGlynn had a very good game against Adelaide. And Murphy has played some good games as well (Round 17 last year being the obvious example).

So do you want us to just leave Murphy & Taylor alone this week and rip into McGlynn because he had a bad game? I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this thread.

As to the so-called 'real reason' we lost: as has been alluded to elsewhere, its beginning to look a lot like our midfield set-ups have been worked out. Dean Bailey talked about one aspect of it in the pre-game on Foxtel before the Melbourne game, but they didn't have the cattle to pull off what he was talking about. Brisbane & Adelaide do, and they have also worked out what our first disposal is likely to be following the hit out, so they sweated off Mitch/Sewell, waiting for them to take possession and pressured their disposal, or tackled them or the reciever, forcing turnovers and killing our drive out of the middle.

Looks to me like we need to vary our set-ups a bit more. You can bet Worsfold and every other coach will be watching what Adelaide & Brisbane did very closely.

 

[Frankston Rover]

I don't remember seeing Murphy play on Brown or Bradshaw?

He didn't play full back, he played back pocket and 90%+ of the time it was on a bloke his size.

And the bloke he played on kicked 1 goal.

Yet Brown kicked 5 but it's Tom Murphy who's a spud.

Good logic.

 

[Goldnbrown]

See post 31 - Blamed
See post 34 & 35 - Protected[/QUOTE]

So...what's your point? Murphy & Taylor aren't to blame but McGlynn is?

There's no doubt McGlynn had a poor game on Sunday. Fair to say Murphy did too. And they weren't alone.

Equally, there's no doubt McGlynn had a very good game against Adelaide. And Murphy has played some good games as well (Round 17 last year being the obvious example).

So do you want us to just leave Murphy & Taylor alone this week and rip into McGlynn because he had a bad game? I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this thread.

As to the so-called 'real reason' we lost: as has been alluded to elsewhere, its beginning to look a lot like our midfield set-ups have been worked out. Dean Bailey talked about one aspect of it in the pre-game on Foxtel before the Melbourne game, but they didn't have the cattle to pull off what he was talking about. Brisbane & Adelaide do, and they have also worked out what our first disposal is likely to be following the hit out, so they sweated off Mitch/Sewell, waiting for them to take possession and pressured their disposal, or tackled them or the reciever, forcing turnovers and killing our drive out of the middle.

Looks to me like we need to vary our set-ups a bit more. You can bet Worsfold and every other coach will be watching what Adelaide & Brisbane did very closely.

My point was a simple one it relates to my OP, there are players such as Murphy and Taylor who get blamed (on these boards by many) when we play badly.

On the other hand, there are other players who are strongly defended on here. I used McGlynn as an example, he like so many others had a dreadful day on Sunday, but yet if anyone disparages him, there is a raft of posters who leap to his defence.

 

[FatHawk]

There are valid points all round on this one. Murphy and Taylor are the first guys to cop it after a loss. However there are many who are less than impressed with Renouf and McGlynn.

As a supporter I must admit when things are going wrong I am the first to take the cane to these guys. I personally won't lose a wink of sleep if I never have to see any of these guys pull on a Hawk jumper again.

To be fair to them they are all fringe players that are currently honest battlers who are in our bottom 6 at the moment. There is no point in crucifying these poor guys (I will have to take my own advice) as they will be moved on in good time (hopefully).

Saying all of that none of our losses can be attributed to these scapegoats. All the blame for our performances sits with the coaching staff and our top players. Who out of our guns have taken their game to another level besides Cyril? He wasn't even a true gun last year. People we are being let down by the Elite not the peasants.

I suppose it doesn't feel right to speak badly of our stars so let’s start another thread about our gun ruck combination of Taylor and Renouf, or Murphy's inability to play on 195cm 100kg power forwards.

 

[TheNewEra]

I can't see this sort of defamation as beneficial for our club.
Perhaps Richmond beckons wboolmember

We bag richmond supporters, maybe they are honest on their players assesments and we like to sugarcoat it.

When certain players play good then they will get the praise they deserve, when they don't what do you want us to say? They tried hard.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

To be fair to them they are all fringe players that are currently honest battlers who are in our bottom 6 at the moment. There is no point in crucifying these poor guys (I will have to take my own advice) as they will be moved on in good time (hopefully).

We won the 2008 premiership partly because our bottom six were better than Geelong's bottom six.

Hawthorn's coaches are no doubt dedicated to improving our list from top to bottom and the list managers to finding players who may improve our current list in the draft.

So, good point.

 

[HFC082]

We bag richmond supporters, maybe they are honest on their players assesments and we like to sugarcoat it.

They are inherently unsuccessful though, so maybe this sugarcoating is beneficial to the fabric of our club.

 

[Goldnbrown]

The way some people have bagged Murphy this week would have made Ricmond supporters proud

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

The amount of times you see the response "go to the Richmond board etc" on here makes me think that a high proportion of our supporters must be just as bad.

 

[Goldnbrown]

No matter how good we are, we will always have a bottom 6 and some on here will find a player or 2 (probably in that bottom 6) to bag. Others no matter where they are on our list will be protected, that was my point originally.