Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left

[Madas]

imagine running up and down an oval for 2 hours, constantly stopping to stare at guys' feet to make sure they don't take even the slightest step off the mark, honing your mind-reading powers to judge "intent," juggling the 3 new rule interpretations the officials drummed into you during the week, trying to make sure you don't botch the bounces and throws too badly, constantly mentally steeling yourself against the 20-30k rabid flogs screaming insults at you, and then being asked who played well. you wouldn't know! you'd just default to the big name who you saw marching it out of your stoppages. why do they still make the umpires vote on it?

Like, it's not a slight or an insult or taking anything away from them. This isn't a suburban league anymore, they can employ full time officials who can focus on who's playing well and assign votes for the league B&F. It doesn't have to be the umpires medal, I think it's honestly unfair to put that extra strain on them. 45 votes for Cripps is beyond ridiculous but honestly 38 for Daicos is too, getting 30 votes used to be a crazy blowout and it's not like the league was just way more even 10-20 years ago. These are the numbers you get when the umpire isn't sure who to give votes to so they just pick the most obvious players that get the most media attention.

Agree
I umpire and I hate doing votes
Rather focus on what I’m doing and get better at it
It’s just a distraction and should be adjudicated by someone who is looking solely for the best players

 

[Drought Break]

Only way of fixing this is industrial action. Key backs such as AA weitering with zero votes to go on strike and refuse to tackle or spoil. The lazy arsed mid fielders who get all the glory should run both ways and do this work.

 

[Farm Boy]

CEO’s wife said Bont wasn’t in the mix. He drifted in the market after that, and, polled accordingly. Box ain’t locked. It leaks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Biggy_Boy]

CEO’s wife said Bont wasn’t in the mix. He drifted in the market after that, and, polled accordingly. Box ain’t locked. It leaks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

They know ahead of time who's going to win. They do stuff like "accidentally" put Nick Daicos Brownlow merch up to attract betting money for their partners.

 

[abchawk]

Agree, entirely.

When Carey didn't win it in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998 & 1999 it succumbed to bullshit.

Carey was injured in 1997, and Grant was wonderful so i'm not going to argue that one. Corey McKernan was your man in 1996, he even knocked Carey out of Number 1 place in Sheehans Top 50 - you do that, you deserve the Brownlow FFS

I mean you could argue Carey was the best player, but at the same time;


1994 - Diesel Williams
1995 - Paul Kelly
1996 - Voss & Hird
1997/98 - Harvey
1999 - Crawford

all had amazing seasons in those years, on top on multiple elite years

Elite killer season players who also didn't win in this 1993-99 period; Dunstall (100+ goals x3), Locket (100+ goals x3), Ablett (100+ goals x3), Modra (100+ goals x 1), Jackovich, Matera, Kemp, Jarman, Mcleod, Hocking, Bairstow, Silvagni, Ratten, Kernahan, and yes McKernan in 1996 and Grant in 1997 especially.

End of day it was mostly a midfielder's medal in the 80s/90s, and it has been totally one since then with the added unfortunate flavor of umpires being consciously/subconsciously influenced by group think, social media, and the mainstream media darlings.

 

[Tadpole]

CEO’s wife said Bont wasn’t in the mix. He drifted in the market after that, and, polled accordingly. Box ain’t locked. It leaks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

It's locked, but it has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Would we have been happier if bung average players like Dipper, Woewodin, Hardie, Libratore & Couch won it on 20 votes instead of the stars of the day.. These would be the equivalent of someone like McClugage, Hayden Young

26

Hayden Young

Age

23

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

160.0

3star

, George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

etc winning it.

 

[MaxiBont]

Would we have been happier if bung average players like Dipper, Woewodin, Hardie, Libratore & Couch won it on 20 votes instead of the stars of the day.. These would be the equivalent of someone like McClugage, Hayden Young, George Hewett etc winning it.

Why do Carlton fans keep going on line anyone has a problem with Cripps winning? 99% of people are saying that he deserved it and is a worthy winning.

Arguing against yourselves.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It's not just a midfielders award, it's more specifically an inside midfielders award

The umps are essentially awarding votes for clearances

 

[HairyO]

I mean you could argue Carey was the best player, but at the same time;


1994 - Diesel Williams
1995 - Paul Kelly
1996 - Voss & Hird
1997/98 - Harvey
1999 - Crawford

all had amazing seasons in those years, on top on multiple elite years

Elite killer season players who also didn't win in this 1993-99 period; Dunstall (100+ goals x3), Locket (100+ goals x3), Ablett (100+ goals x3), Modra (100+ goals x 1), Jackovich, Matera, Kemp, Jarman, Mcleod, Hocking, Bairstow, Silvagni, Ratten, Kernahan, and yes McKernan in 1996 and Grant in 1997 especially.

End of day it was mostly a midfielder's medal in the 80s/90s, and it has been totally one since then with the added unfortunate flavor of umpires being consciously/subconsciously influenced by group think, social media, and the mainstream media darlings.

Dunstall kicked 139 goals in the H & A season in 1992. 14 times he kicked 6+.

In an year when 20 votes won it, he got votes in 7 games.

He kicked 12 goals in a game and got 2 votes.

So as I and many others have said, the Brownlow has been a joke for a very, very long time.

Why do Carlton fans keep going on line anyone has a problem with Cripps winning? 99% of people are saying that he deserved it and is a worthy winning.

Arguing against yourselves.

Individual awards are all they are any good for so they get very defensive.

 

[doppleganger]

Round 22 Sydney vs Collingwood...

Nick Daicos: 25 Disposals @ 52% efficiency, 4 tackles, 230 metres gained, 0 goals, 3 score involvements - 2 Brownlow Votes
Chad Warner: 33 Disposals @ 76% efficiency, 3 tackles, 490 metres gained, 2 goals, 8 score involvements - 0 Brownlow Votes

It's a popularity contest.

You are looking at the wrong stats if you want a guide to who will get brownlow votes.

They dont care about tackles, disposal efficiency or metres gained.

Umpires notice blokes who win it at contest, and especially those who can get it in the clear, contested possessions and clearances.

 

[MF]

You are looking at the wrong stats if you want a guide to who will get brownlow votes.

They dont care about tackles, disposal efficiency or metres gained.

Umpires notice blokes who win it at contest, and especially those who can get it in the clear, contested possessions and clearances.

Daicos: 13 contested possessions, 9 clearances
Warner: 13 contested possessions, 8 clearances

I agree that Daicos contested and clearance work is elite but that particular game really wasn't a great example of it. He didn't get a clearance in the 2nd half when the game was on the line. Just a really strange game to give a player from the losing team 2 votes when there was a player who was clearly better on the winning team imo.

 

[doppleganger]

Daicos: 13 contested possessions, 9 clearances
Warner: 13 contested possessions, 8 clearances

I agree that Daicos contested and clearance work is elite but that particular game really wasn't a great example of it. He didn't get a clearance in the 2nd half when the game was on the line. Just a really strange game to give a player from the losing team 2 votes when there was a player who was clearly better on the winning team imo.

So in the stats that correlate best with brownlow votes, Daicos was better.

Why wasnt the game on the line in Q2?

Sydney only won by 3 points, Pies actually were the better for the majority of the game, just a 10min burst from Swans got them the points.

Really weird to get so hung up on a Pie getting votes in that game.

 

[Partridge]

Would we have been happier if bung average players like Dipper, Woewodin, Hardie, Libratore & Couch won it on 20 votes instead of the stars of the day.. These would be the equivalent of someone like McClugage, Hayden Young

26

Hayden Young

Age

23

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

160.0

3star

, George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

etc winning it.

That's the thing though, it isn't about who the anointed stars are, it's who has a great season. Woewodin might be always held up as an example of an average player who won it - but people forget he had a killer season that year.

To modern players, I'd argue Hayden Young is far from bung average for starters.

 

[DocSholl]

It's not just a midfielders award, it's more specifically an inside midfielders award

The umps are essentially awarding votes for clearances

Except for Bont this year for some reason

 

[BigVic]

Bont not even a top 10 finisher

 

[Osho]

It's locked, but it has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese.

Well, there is a lock on the box. I don't think they use it.

 

[The Sultan]

look forward to the this thread fading into obscurity until this time next year it gets bumped with the same arguments.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

That was supposed to be Josh Daicos (34 disposals same game).

same with the Impey/Amon situation.

Umpires actually submitted the wrong person's name.

I highly doubt that that's what happened.

Surely it's more likely they mistook the players for each other throughout the game, and therefore thought one played far better than they actually did.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I've always held the opinion that the AFL should send 2 or 3 people to every game whether it be retired players, coaches or 1 of each and have them confer with the onfield umpires after the game for example R1 2025 Hawthorn Vs Essendon AFL sends Adam Simpson & Gary Rohan to the game and after the game Adam Simpson states that he thinks Finn Mcguiness was best because he held Merrett to only 12 possessions. Gary Rohan stats he thinks Kyle Langford was his best because he restricted Sicilys importance to Hawthorn and kicked 3 goals. Then the Umpires are to watch a replay of the game with Simpson and Rohan with all the stats therefore being more able to make a more informed decision on the 3-2-1 votes for the brownlow medal.

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Isn't that just over engineering it though?

Surely an individual award just isn't worth all that effort?

 

[doppleganger]

Isn't that just over engineering it though?

Surely an individual award just isn't worth all that effort?

The complaining is hilarious.

It is just opinions, have 4 people watch the same game on the TV (so all get the same view and commentary of the game) and it would be rare to have ALL 4 agree who the best 3 players on the ground were.

When people are at the ground, with different views and positioning it becomes even more varied.

Cripps and Daicos were the top2 in most models who do have the benefit of access to stats, so umpires clearly got it right.

Seems like people almost want it to go back to old days where more random players received votes in games...just to keep totals down.

Or should they just do a "Supercoach" or "Player Rating" brownlow, where top 3 players each game according to the algorithm automatically get the 3,2,1.

No subjectivity or arguments then.

 

[JackOutback]

Daicos: 13 contested possessions, 9 clearances
Warner: 13 contested possessions, 8 clearances

I agree that Daicos contested and clearance work is elite but that particular game really wasn't a great example of it. He didn't get a clearance in the 2nd half when the game was on the line. Just a really strange game to give a player from the losing team 2 votes when there was a player who was clearly better on the winning team imo.

The umps only pay attention to the established stars or they don't have a good feel for who played great so fall back on giving votes to the stars. Warner being overlooked this year has been noticed, watch him start polling more regularly from next year. Once you get on the radar, you stay on the radar.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

You are looking at the wrong stats if you want a guide to who will get brownlow votes.

They dont care about tackles, disposal efficiency or metres gained.

Umpires notice blokes who win it at contest, and especially those who can get it in the clear, contested possessions and clearances.

Exactly, it’s not the umpires job to understand who was ‘best’ and who had the most impact on the result.. give it to someone else that can be independent.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

That's the thing though, it isn't about who the anointed stars are, it's who has a great season. Woewodin might be always held up as an example of an average player who won it - but people forget he had a killer season that year.

To modern players, I'd argue Hayden Young is far from bung average for starters.

Woewodin had such a good season he didn’t even make the All Australian team that year

 

[Bird Man]

sportsbets links have been shown with dillons wife ... how did she know? well its because its managed for max profit with the afl gaing a percentage of those profits

The AFL's curruption and control over the media is so evident. Should be investigated