Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left

[HBFlanker]

Feel for Daicos. I dont think he will have another chance for a few years, especially with the pies on the slide.

Bont has to win one in the next couple of years. I think Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

and Serong ride the wave of being in top 4/6 sides and poll very heavily.

JHF polls very well and obviously LDU will be on the up as well.

I thought the votes were about right. Cripps was the best player comfortably this year.

 

[Lunchtime]

Feel for Daicos. I dont think he will have another chance for a few years, especially with the pies on the slide.

Bont has to win one in the next couple of years. I think Tom Green and Serong ride the wave of being in top 4/6 sides and poll very heavily.

JHF polls very well and obviously LDU will be on the up as well.

I thought the votes were about right. Cripps was the best player comfortably this year.

What didn't help Nick Daicos this season was that he didn't start well either. He only got warm at about round 8 or round 9.

 

[Partridge]

Its been decades. This isnt new.

A huge number of people now follow it because of the ridiculousness, not because it means anything.

McRae also made a mockery of the Coach votes this year too. And the AA panel has always been stacked with flogs.

There really arent any meaningful awards other than Premiership medals.

Pretty much. Maybe the Players' MVP still has merit.

But it's what you get when the entire industry is such an insular boys' club. The All Australian team has been a joke for some time now, if you get 1-2 nominations, you've now got the inside running to get a lot more. Regardless of form. That's been going on for at least 15 years.

You have the same group of ex-players and mates, commentating games, and/or on TV, and/or on radio, and/or "voting" for various awards. It's a complete sham.

Again, nothing against Cripps. He's a fantastic player and a deserved winner. But not with that amount of votes.

 

[HairyO]

Totally agree.

I would argue that B&Fs are relevant also as they at least indicate that you are 'playing well' based on what it is that your club is asking you to do, rather than a bunch of media flogs sitting around a table looking at stats to determine who are the best players.

Yep and the B & F winner from the flag winning team is probably the most important player too, given teams generally double the votes for finals.

I think Josh Gibson won twice in flag years but he probably polled half a dozen Brownlow votes across his career.

 

[Partridge]

AAs, afl mvp and coaches votes are all meaningful awards. They arent perfect.

The brownlow, however, is just dumb. Take the top 25 players for that year and then randomly pick one would be just as good as the brownlow.

The middle one - AFL MVP - yes. Far from convinced about the other two anymore.

 

[HBFlanker]

What didn't help Nick Daicos this season was that he didn't start well either. He only got warm at about round 8 or round 9.

Yeah he had multiple rounds early with no influence. That ended up costing him.

He needs some help too. Can't remember a teams overall votes being so skewed to one player.

 

[Seeds]

That said, J Cameron did a great job getting that many votes. But without knowing, my bet is his big vote games were when he played far higher and got possessions than when he played deep and kicked goals.

geelong doesnt have midfielders who rack up high possessions. Geelong had the lowest votes per win in the comp cos we dont have high possession mids. Even still, when we win games they have to give at least some geelong players votes. They gave them to cameron. If we had 25 possession mids cameron would of got less.

 

[Lunchtime]

geelong doesnt have midfielders who rack up high possessions. Geelong had the lowest votes per win in the comp cos we dont have high possession mids. Even still, when we win games they have to give at least some geelong players votes. They gave them to cameron. If we had 25 possession mids cameron would of got less.

Umpires recognised Cameron's inpact on the game which is fair enough. But usually players who get a whole heap of possessions get votes.

 

[HairyO]

Yeah he had multiple rounds early with no influence. That ended up costing him.

He needs some help too. Can't remember a teams overall votes being so skewed to one player.

Cripps 45
Walsh 16
McKay 6

Its pretty close.

That said, most teams have 1 player getting a heap of votes then a major drop to the next best.

 

[lionsrules]

I can understand how the umpires could’ve viewed him as playing good football in the game. Watching a few Carlton games this year he seemed to be just in and around on all of it.
That said Daicos is unlucky. Whatever the case is the award is always going to have people thinking another player is hard done by. But Cripps was in a team that was at the start of the year firing so he was noticed and by the end of the year he seemed to be carrying them over the line when the rest were gassed/injured.

 

[bradfisher14]

Feel for Daicos. I dont think he will have another chance for a few years, especially with the pies on the slide.

Think you’re wrong here. Pies will go again next year with a healthier list and a softer fixture imo. They’ll win enough games to keep him in contention at least.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Bont
Daicos
Warner
Neale
Heeney
Horne-Francis
Reid
Holmes
Serong

I'd pick all of them before Cripps.

Coaches, players, umpires disagree. Since Cripps finished second in the MVP votes, second in coaches votes and first in the brownlow. I get being pissy at a shit brownlow vote number, but the dude finishes at worst second both player vote and coaches votes there isn't "six better midfielders" then him. Come on.

 

[MF]

Round 22 Sydney vs Collingwood...

Nick Daicos: 25 Disposals @ 52% efficiency, 4 tackles, 230 metres gained, 0 goals, 3 score involvements - 2 Brownlow Votes
Chad Warner

1

Chad Warner

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

4star

CL

0.0

1star

: 33 Disposals @ 76% efficiency, 3 tackles, 490 metres gained, 2 goals, 8 score involvements - 0 Brownlow Votes

It's a popularity contest.

 

[WilloTree]

From memory Fyfe won his second Brownlow in 2019 and the team he played for (Freo) finished 13th on the ladder.

Yeah. Freo were garbage in 2019. Won 6 games.

Fyfe won his 1st when Freo finished 1st as well. Neither year 'middling'.

 

[HBFlanker]

Cripps 45
Walsh 16
McKay 6

Its pretty close.

That said, most teams have 1 player getting a heap of votes then a major drop to the next best.

Not really. Carltons next best was double Collingwoods next best.

And again, not really. Look at Sydney.

 

[HBFlanker]

Think you’re wrong here. Pies will go again next year with a healthier list and a softer fixture imo. They’ll win enough games to keep him in contention at least.

Wont play finals. List is wafer thin.

He needs massive help in the middle.

 

[HairyO]

Not really. Carltons next best was double Collingwoods next best.

And again, not really. Look at Sydney.

Cripps 29 votes ahead of 2nd, Daicos 30 votes ahead of 2nd.

Its similar.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Add on top of all that the fact that the umps aren't allowed to look at any stats before they vote.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If umps could look at stats before voting, people would still complain.
"How did player X get 3 votes for this game? Player Y had more impact. The umps just looked at how many disposals he had."

Every year people complain about the validity/prestige of the award. For longer than I care to remember.
Every year there's arguments over players getting votes in games they maybe shouldn't have, or missing votes in games they should've polled.
We micro-analyse stats and ratings to the Nth degree. Can guarantee there were games in the 70s, 80s and 90s where players got 3 votes they didn't deserve, or missed votes they should have got. Nobody remembers and nobody cares. Only a few stand out like Diesel missing votes to miss out on the award by 1 vote after getting zero in a game with 44 touches in 1993.

It's not like the coaches award has any less flaws after this year, with Daicos getting 5 votes from his coach in 1-2 games when he was far from best on ground. It is what it is.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

But then the AFL MVP is an opinion award, the AFL Coaches award is also an opinion award. The Brownlow is an opinion award too. They are all "opinion awards" The All Australian is the same....at the end of the day all of these awards come down to "opinions" decided by people (players, umpires, coaches, All Australian selectors) who have been tasked with choosing the best players.

That's just how it is.

100% they are.

That's why I simply can't understand why people look more into them than what they are.


What I would say though, is that I value the opinion of opposition players and coaches far, far, far more than umpires and the media flogs that do the AA voting.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It's not like the coaches award has any less flaws after this year, with Daicos getting 5 votes from his coach in 1-2 games when he was far from best on ground. It is what it is.

Coaches will have bias toward certain players. But regardless, ultimately it is the coaches, and the coaches alone that know whether their players have done their job or not.


It's like Steve Kerr publicly calling out Devon Booker as Team USA's MVP after the Olympics.

Whilst LeBron and Steph are doing super human stuff and ripping games open offensively, the coach values a guy doing the team stuff that no one outside of his group even notices.

 

[Partridge]

Round 22 Sydney vs Collingwood...

Nick Daicos: 25 Disposals @ 52% efficiency, 4 tackles, 230 metres gained, 0 goals, 3 score involvements - 2 Brownlow Votes
Chad Warner

1

Chad Warner

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

4star

CL

0.0

1star

: 33 Disposals @ 76% efficiency, 3 tackles, 490 metres gained, 2 goals, 8 score involvements - 0 Brownlow Votes

It's a popularity contest.

Absolutely. We saw it last night during the telecast. They talked about Daicos at least as much if not more than Cripps. Including after Cripps had won it. It was nauseating (didn't start with Daicos either to be fair, they were doing it with Dangerfield and most hilariously with Martin, when McAvaney was almost clinging to him at times).

Why is the Brownlow now about anointing your favourites instead of actually finding out who might win?

You could argue Warner had as good an overall season as any of the other designated stars too.

 

[Partridge]

100% they are.

That's why I simply can't understand why people look more into them than what they are.


What I would say though, is that I value the opinion of opposition players and coaches far, far, far more than umpires and the media flogs that do the AA voting.

Yeah I looked through the All Australian selection panel and the only three whose opinions I rate as independent and intelligent would be Buckley, Kane Cornes, and Pavlich. Don't respect the rest at all.

 

[Proud New Father of 3]

Watch the AFL over correct next year and Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

get 51 votes and Cripps get 6.

 

[PhatBoy]

What I noticed more and more this year during the media coverage and it seemed reflected during the voting last night, is that it only seems like a player has to dominate for a quarter for him to be lauded.

It’s like the umpires - even in a game where a team has a close loss - see a player be quiet for say, half a game of football where his team falls behind, but they have a big third term and drag their side back into the game with a 10 possession, 1-2 goal third term - and that’s enough for them to give some votes to a player even if their team doesn’t end up winning.

I think this is the sort of scenario where the umpires having access to the stats would help.

 

[danster168]

lol. People getting so wound up over an award that we've known is laughably flawed for over a decade. There's no excuse for people to be so surprised

I warned people not to watch it. Should've listened