The Bulldogs and Umpires: Time for a Royal Commission?

[two blue tiger]

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

Spend 5 minutes looking at the stats on the link above. Pretty much says it all.

Fair's fair, you guys won. Not complaining, we didn't do enough. But really, take off your red, white and blue glasses.

 

[CarnTheScray]

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

Says it all.

Fair's fair, you guys won. Not complaining, we didn't do enough. But really, take off your red, white and blue glasses.

Yes, you are definitely complaining.

 

[Sentinel]

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

Spend 5 minutes looking at the stats on the link above. Pretty much says it all.

Fair's fair, you guys won. Not complaining, we didn't do enough. But really, take off your red, white and blue glasses.

"Not complaining but I'm here anyway" lmao

 

[Substance]

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

Spend 5 minutes looking at the stats on the link above. Pretty much says it all.

Fair's fair, you guys won. Not complaining, we didn't do enough. But really, take off your red, white and blue glasses.

I looked for 1 minute
We're 51 frees for - 70 against
Tiges 62 - 65
Do I need to keep looking or....

 

[Alesana]

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

Spend 5 minutes looking at the stats on the link above. Pretty much says it all.

Fair's fair, you guys won. Not complaining, we didn't do enough. But really, take off your red, white and blue glasses.

I don't have blue red white glasses and I say your link is pointless

 

[two blue tiger]

I looked for 1 minute
We're 51 frees for - 70 against
Tiges 62 - 65
Do I need to keep looking

I don't have blue red white glasses and I say your link is pointless

Mmmmmm - last time Weagles finished on negative side of season frees for/against was in 2001.............

 

[two blue tiger]

Official game report ex afl.com

"Tigers supporters were left to lament two Dogs fourth-quarter goals that came directly from dubious free-kicks, to Aaron Naughton

33

Aaron Naughton

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

0.8

1star

G

0.5

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

and Robbie McComb."

Nothing to see here.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Official game report ex afl.com

"Tigers supporters were left to lament two Dogs fourth-quarter goals that came directly from dubious free-kicks, to Aaron Naughton and Robbie McComb."

Nothing to see here.

I had no memory of these being controversial calls so went back to have a closer look. You can too if you have Kayo

https://kayosports.com.au/fixture/sport!afl/series-afl!1/fixture-richmond-tigers-vs-western-bulldogs!3906

Naughton's is shown in the Kayo replay at 2:18:50. Very obvious push in the back. Do you feel it shouldn't have been called?

McComb is shown at 2:22:58. He is chasing the ball, Vlastuin runs at him instead of directly at the ball, and makes high contact. Again, an obvious free kick and the replay shows it, although this one was less obvious than the Naughton one.

McComb the camera angles were poor so I understand people being confused by it even though high contact was clearly made. But how could anyone honestly have any issue with the Naughton free?

 

[Alesana]

Mmmmmm - last time Weagles finished on negative side of season frees for/against was in 2001.............

And? Are you saying the team I support needs to give away more free kicks for me to point out that your link to free kick counts is pointless? What kind of logic is that?

 

[VL3OJ]

You Doggies blokes are kidding. Tigers couldn't get a free kick in a karate class.

Umpiring standards just so inconsistent. Umpiring in the Swans v Port game tonight is as poor as anything I've seen for years.........

You don't get free kicks in Karate, Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Aikido or even Krav Maga. If you are going to mix your metaphors two blue tiger, then perhaps some research.

 

[smasha]

Bulldogs deflecting the truth lmao.

 

[Walter H White]

Has anyone ever done an analysis of each team's contested ball differential vs free kick differential? Would be interesting to see if the "first to the ball, you get rewarded" idea plays out in reality over an extended period of time.

 

[Macca180]

That too high free right in front of goal in the last when game is in the balance two players collided both going for the ball.

Absolutely flipping pathetic.

Umpires can just ruin games like that.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Has anyone ever done an analysis of each team's contested ball differential vs free kick differential? Would be interesting to see if the "first to the ball, you get rewarded" idea plays out in reality over an extended period of time.

Not that I'm aware of.

Comparisons of Free Kick Differential between teams with a low and high Contested Ball ranking have been done, but it doesn't hold up.

I think I tried to understand why the Bulldogs had such a glaring Free Kick Differential in this thread by looking at their rankings in different stats - but there was no pattern. It is just an anomaly of historical proportions.

From memory, they dominated the Free Kick Differential stat regardless of any other stat such as Contested Ball, Tackles, etc. etc.

The loser Bulldogs supporters tried to justify it for some reason, by claiming the 'first to the ball' thing - but the numbers didn't support that. They also tried with the 'disciplined' thing - but the weird thing was that it wasn't just that they gave less away, they received more too.


In the end, an analysis of where the Frees were and weren't paid, in terms of Clearances, or Marking Contests, or in general play, has never been done. It's never been analysed as to whether the discrepancy is linked to umpires missing Free Kicks against the Bulldogs either (ie. blatant throws and Incorrect Disposals), and the types of Frees they get, and the types thr opposition give away hasn't been analysed either. So aside from it being absolute fact that the Bulldogs under Beverage were on the receiving end of an absolutely freakish 6 year run of Free Kick Differential, there's no definitive explanation as to why.

The cause is speculative.

 

[Lampers]

In the end, an analysis of where the Frees were and weren't paid, in terms of Clearances, or Marking Contests, or in general play, has never been done. It's never been analysed as to whether the discrepancy is linked to umpires missing Free Kicks against the Bulldogs either (ie. blatant throws Incorrect Disposals), and the types of Frees they get, and the opposition give away hasn't been analysed either. So aside from it being absolute fact that the Bulldogs under Beverage were on the receiving end of an absolutely freaking 6 year run of Free Kick Differential, there's no definitive explanation as to why.

The cause is speculative.

The analysis has absolutely been done.

I attended a talk from effectively the AFL’s chief data scientist.

He said the AFL know exactly where on the ground the most umpiring mistakes are made and where umpires were placed relative to the decision, which they then use to coach the umpires about positioning (and no doubt led to introduction of four field umpires).

Every decision and non-decision is analysed.

That analysis or the underlying data isn’t released to the public of course.

The AFL will know the answers as to whether it’s a Steven Hocking conspiracy against Richmond, a love affair with the Eagles and Bulldogs, or as I would suspect a combination of many factors that lead to particular teams having more free kicks for than against.

If you believe that no umpires deliberately make errors, then you are only left with subconscious errors (home crowd ‘noise of affirmation’) and then game style and what teams are coached (i.e. how aggressively they man the mark, how aggressively they tackle, do they coach players to fall forward in tackles, do they coach players to ‘fumble’ the ball to avoid holding the ball decisions etc.).

I think if we had the data and all the information at hand we’d find game style and how teams are coached is the biggest factor, then overlaid by influence of a strong home crowd noise advantage.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

The analysis has absolutely been done.

I attended a talk from effectively the AFL’s chief data scientist.

He said the AFL know exactly where on the ground the most umpiring mistakes are made and where umpires were placed relative to the decision, which they then use to coach the umpires about positioning (and no doubt led to introduction of four field umpires).

Every decision and non-decision is analysed.

That analysis or the underlying data isn’t released to the public of course.

The AFL will know the answers as to whether it’s a Steven Hocking conspiracy against Richmond, a love affair with the Eagles and Bulldogs, or as I would suspect a combination of many factors that lead to particular teams having more free kicks for than against.

If you believe that no umpires deliberately make errors, then you are only left with subconscious errors (home crowd ‘noise of affirmation’) and then game style and what teams are coached (i.e. how aggressively they man the mark, how aggressively they tackle, do they coach players to fall forward in tackles, do they coach players to ‘fumble’ the ball to avoid holding the ball decisions etc.).

I think if we had the data and all the information at hand we’d find game style and how teams are coached is the biggest factor, then overlaid by influence of a strong home crowd noise advantage.

Well derrrr.

Of course it's been done. Just not in this thread.

 

[Lampers]

Well derrrr.

Of course it's been done. Just not in this thread.

Excellent contribution.

 

[Maylandsman]

I looked for 1 minute
We're 51 frees for - 70 against
Tiges 62 - 65
Do I need to keep looking or....

You did well to spend a minute there. looked at the -age and thought no hope going through this.

 

[Some Idiot]

That too high free right in front of goal in the last when game is in the balance two players collided both going for the ball.

Absolutely *ing pathetic.

Umpires can just ruin games like that.

It always gets paid that way, the player that goes lower and harder gets rewarded.

 

[Sentinel]

The analysis has absolutely been done.

I attended a talk from effectively the AFL’s chief data scientist.

He said the AFL know exactly where on the ground the most umpiring mistakes are made and where umpires were placed relative to the decision, which they then use to coach the umpires about positioning (and no doubt led to introduction of four field umpires).

Every decision and non-decision is analysed.

That analysis or the underlying data isn’t released to the public of course.

The AFL will know the answers as to whether it’s a Steven Hocking conspiracy against Richmond, a love affair with the Eagles and Bulldogs, or as I would suspect a combination of many factors that lead to particular teams having more free kicks for than against.

If you believe that no umpires deliberately make errors, then you are only left with subconscious errors (home crowd ‘noise of affirmation’) and then game style and what teams are coached (i.e. how aggressively they man the mark, how aggressively they tackle, do they coach players to fall forward in tackles, do they coach players to ‘fumble’ the ball to avoid holding the ball decisions etc.).

I think if we had the data and all the information at hand we’d find game style and how teams are coached is the biggest factor, then overlaid by influence of a strong home crowd noise advantage.

How dare you overlook the idea of a greater conspiracy/league wide corruption. This is threadban worthy.

 

[Sentinel]

Well derrrr.

Of course it's been done. Just not in this thread.

So you admit your own thread is a pile of steaming hot garbage. Cool.

 

[tiger_tough]

It always gets paid that way, the player that goes lower and harder gets rewarded.

Yeah when he has the ball....

That one was garbage. But so was the non free for the legging in the goal square earlier so worked out fair enough.

Naughtons was a gift at a crucial time.

We were shithouse for 3 quarters. Can't blame the umps at all.

 

[Doggy]

That too high free right in front of goal in the last when game is in the balance two players collided both going for the ball.

Absolutely *ing pathetic.

Umpires can just ruin games like that.

Hannan tackled around the ankles in the goal square says hi

 

[Doggy]

Yeah when he has the ball....

That one was garbage. But so was the non free for the legging in the goal square earlier so worked out fair enough.

Naughtons was a gift at a crucial time.

We were shithouse for 3 quarters. Can't blame the umps at all.

The Naughton freekick was there you clown.

The McComb one is the only one that could be called 50/50. And there were calls not made to the dogs and some dubious ones made to Richmond.

Any more conspiracy theories for us? You blokes think rule changes come in to stop Richmond

 

[tiger_tough]

The Naughton freekick was there you clown.

The McComb one is the only one that could be called 50/50. And there were calls not made to the dogs and some dubious ones made to Richmond.

Any more conspiracy theories for us? You blokes think rule changes come in to stop Richmond

Chill out son. I said nothing about a conspiracy and even said we can't blame the umps.....