The Bulldogs and Umpires: Time for a Royal Commission?

[Brian_45]

WB free kick stats for 2022, courtesy of champion data

A huge differential for push in the back.

Thanks for posting these Mike I actually find them really insightful and they do support a lot of the arguments of non-dogs supporters in this thread.

1. Dogs players drop at the knees when there is any form of contact to elicit a push in the back free
2. There is too many throws that are not being paid against the dogs when Libba and Macrae have made it an art form of it.

The high contact differential isn't as high as I thought it would be but is still in the dogs favour.

 

[Sentinel]

Thanks for posting these Mike I actually find them really insightful and they do support a lot of the arguments of non-dogs supporters in this thread.

1. Dogs players drop at the knees when there is any form of contact to elicit a push in the back free
2. There is too many throws that are not being paid against the dogs when Libba and Macrae have made it an art form of it.

The high contact differential isn't as high as I thought it would be but is still in the dogs favour.

Wait I thought, according to you earlier in this thread, that the Bulldogs' gameplan was based on earning free kicks for high tackles? Now it's not that but instead push in the back frees? How weird that your argument changes entirely when the stats came out.

Is there any doubt now that the Dogs game plan has revolved around gaming the system and getting head high free kicks? Bevo is an absolute blight on the game.

 

[adogsfan5]

Thanks for posting these Mike I actually find them really insightful and they do support a lot of the arguments of non-dogs supporters in this thread.

1. Dogs players drop at the knees when there is any form of contact to elicit a push in the back free
2. There is too many throws that are not being paid against the dogs when Libba and Macrae have made it an art form of it.

The high contact differential isn't as high as I thought it would be but is still in the dogs favour.

The ducking for frees is only just part of it, let's also forget about the "flick passes" and "little gives" aka throws that Macrae and Libba have become quite adept at.

Personally I think the umpires have caught up to the Dogs cheating and it is a big reason why their year has been so dismal.

Why would Bevo (and you dogs supporters) be so up in arms about this change? it is a big part of how you play.

Weird, was only yesterday according to you, that the umps had caught up with us and is why we’ve been so dismal.

Now today it’s clocking up the numbers and throws aren’t paid.

Strange.

 

[Some Idiot]

I'm not sure how many you have seen but I think they are not being paid across the board. I think where it gets interesting is how often teams are throwing it and under what circumstances.

I think there's 2 types of throws:

1. The caught in a tackle, got an arm pinned can't really do anything else so they throw it. Not really premeditated they just got caught in a good tackle and had no other option so they try their luck. Whilst the player didn't attempt to cheat, they did throw it.

2. Then there's the premeditated, not being tackled, this will help us move the ball faster type throw. This one is cheating.

I think all teams do #1 fairly frequently. What I've noticed about the Dogs is they are big exponents of #2. I watched Treloar do it 3 times in the 1st qtr vs pies a couple of weeks ago.

Here are 2 good examples. You can see both of the throws fall into category #2 - they have other options but make a conscious decision to throw the ball. In both shots you can see the umpire has a clear view of it but makes a conscious decision not to pay a throw.



It also pisses me off that the afl media turn a blind eye - calling them "little gives" or "flicks" - What are you thoughts - Are they throws or "little gives"?

Happens at least 10 times a game against us. Imo it's near impossible for the umpires to judge in real time

 

[Brian_45]

Mate, I would have probably gone with a video of one that isn’t from the semi final last year . Nothing screams salty than going back to that game.

Wait I thought, according to you earlier in this thread, that the Bulldogs' gameplan was based on earning free kicks for high tackles? Now it's not that but instead push in the back frees? How weird that your argument changes entirely when the stats came out.

Yes the gaming system part would allude to non-paid throws and dropping at the knees.

 

[Kickit2brown]

Happens at least 10 times a game against us. Imo it's near impossible for the umpires to judge in real time

Do you honestly think the umpire standing less than 10 metres away, right infront of Mcrae when he threw that wasn't able to identify that as a throw?

 

[Sentinel]

Do you honestly think the umpire standing less than 10 metres away, right infront of Mcrae when he threw that wasn't able to identify that as a throw?

He obviously knew it was a throw, he just didn't pay it because the Bulldogs lined his pocket pre-game.

 

[adogsfan5]

Do you honestly think the umpire standing less than 10 metres away, right infront of Mcrae when he threw that wasn't able to identify that as a throw?

You should post in a thread then that’s about the umpires/umpire quality and why they can’t see a throw from 10m away if you really feel this passionate about making the game better.

 

[Kickit2brown]

You should post in a thread then that’s about the umpires and why they can’t see a throw from 10m away if you really feel this passionate about making the game better.

My comments are in relation to earlier discussions re: Luke Beveridge.

He has very smartly identified that the AFL wants the game to move quickly, so all these "little gives", "Flicks" and dropping the ball see a blind eye. It has been a very clever strategy and worked well for him over a number of years (even won him a flag). However it is interesting that he is now unhappy that the AFL is clamping down on one of his strategies re: drawing head high free kicks.

 

[Kickit2brown]

Which one is it mate? You unhappy about the throws or do you wanna talk about the head highs?

Well I think the evidence it's all in this thread over the last few pages.

The data that _Mike_ shared was fantastic.

It shows a slightly differential of head high frees
A massive anomaly towards in the back

Both of these data points strongly correlate to the observations made by many that the Dogs have a tendency to drop the knees during tackles and look for a free

What was a very interesting was the second data point where the dogs have only conceded 11 throws for the year, backed by video footage of how often they use throws to get a centre clearance.

It's all really adding up once you put it all together.

 

[adogsfan5]

Well I think the evidence it's all in this thread over the last few pages.

The data that _Mike_ shared was fantastic.

It shows a slightly differential of head high frees
A massive anomaly towards in the back

Both of these data points strongly correlate to the observations made by many that the Dogs have a tendency to drop the knees during tackles and look for a free

What was a very interesting was the second data point where the dogs have only conceded 11 throws for the year, backed by video footage of how often they use throws to get a centre clearance.

It's all really adding up once you put it all together.

Everyone just jumped to those numbers like a fly to shit. Wouldn’t you want to see the in the back numbers from other clubs before making your final observation?

 

[Kickit2brown]

Everyone just jumped to those numbers like a fly to s**t. Wouldn’t you want to see the in the back numbers from other clubs before making your final observation?

Not sure, you'd have to take that up with Mike who is sharing the data.

 

[adogsfan5]

WB free kick stats for 2022, courtesy of champion data

A huge differential for push in the back.

Cmon Mike. I wanna see the highs, the throws and the in the backs from other clubs.

 

[Sentinel]

I think watching too many Bulldogs games may have skewed your idea of what a handball is mate.

Whilst we're posting individual clips, what are your thoughts on this one pal? Or only relevant when the Bulldogs players do it?

View attachment wr-D4yjpfeHiovz5.mp4

 

[BarryMorgan]

Whilst we're posting individual clips, what are your thoughts on this one pal? Or only relevant when the Bulldogs players do it?

View attachment 1453409

Uncomfortable viewing.

 

[BarryMorgan]

We know from one particularly Bulldogs-obsessed Demons supporter that Simon Goodwin

Simon Goodwin

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47

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9.4

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7.2

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3.0

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‘definitely’ speaks to his players about not drawing high contact for free kicks.

However, Kozzie Pickett, who I think is a fantastic footballer, continues to do it.

The only inference I can draw from this is that Goodwin and Pickett must not be on speaking terms and there’s a huge rift at the Demons.

 

[Toump Ass]

I will begrudgingly acknowledge that it is hard to tell if it is a throw, or a handball... sometimes.
Clayton Oliver

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Clayton Oliver

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, for instance, has lightening fast hands, and is regularly pinged for a throw in error.

I do find it very difficult to believe that I can watch AFL on an illegal stream in glitchy, poor quality SD and spot Bulldog players illegally throwing the ball yet umpires a few steps away cannot.

Fact: certain clubs like the Western Bulldogs throw and duck more than others. Luke "Bevo" Beveridge should be admonished for coaching a team who are ducking and throwing more than others.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I will begrudgingly acknowledge that it is hard to tell if it is a throw, or a handball... sometimes.
Clayton Oliver, for instance, has lightening fast hands, and is regularly pinged for a throw in error.

I do find it very difficult to believe that I can watch AFL on an illegal stream in glitchy, poor quality SD and spot Bulldog players illegally throwing the ball yet umpires a few steps away cannot. It's amazing isn't it? There should be royal commission.

My opinion: certain clubs* like the Western Bulldogs throw and duck more than others although I'm unable to show any proof. Luke "Bevo" Beveridge should be admonished for coaching a team who are ducking and throwing more than others, although again, I'm not able to show proof of this.

FIFY.

* what "other clubs" - besides Melbourne?

 

[Alesana]

I will begrudgingly acknowledge that it is hard to tell if it is a throw, or a handball... sometimes.
Clayton Oliver, for instance, has lightening fast hands, and is regularly pinged for a throw in error.

I do find it very difficult to believe that I can watch AFL on an illegal stream in glitchy, poor quality SD and spot Bulldog players illegally throwing the ball yet umpires a few steps away cannot.

Fact: certain clubs like the Western Bulldogs throw and duck more than others. Luke "Bevo" Beveridge should be admonished for coaching a team who are ducking and throwing more than others.

"My team just has ultra fast hands, but your team just throws it"

LOL

 

[Toump Ass]

"My team just has ultra fast hands, but your team just throws it"

I understand that my post was too probably too detailed for you to understand so I'll repeat myself:
Certain clubs, ie: Western Bulldogs, throw and duck more than others.

No one is saying that other clubs don't occasionally duck, or throw the ball.
But the fact is that Western Bulldogs do it more than other clubs.

 

[Alesana]

I understand that my post was too probably too detailed for you to understand so I'll repeat myself:
Certain clubs, ie: Western Bulldogs, throw and duck more than others.

No one is saying that other clubs don't occasionally duck, or throw the ball.
But the fact is that Western Bulldogs do it more than other clubs.

"Certain clubs" then names only one club.

Yes, you are very detailed

 

[Toump Ass]

"Certain clubs" then names only one club.

I was trying to be polite.

It's Western Bulldogs that throw and duck the most.

 

[Brian_45]

Damian Barrett on the money again with sliding doors.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I understand that my post was too probably too detailed for you to understand so I'll repeat myself:
Certain clubs, ie: Western Bulldogs, throw and duck more than others.

No one is saying that other clubs don't occasionally duck, or throw the ball.
But the fact is that Western Bulldogs do it more than other clubs.

You have the stats to back that up?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I was trying to be polite.

It's Western Bulldogs that throw and duck the most.

You have the stats to back that up?