The bulldogs best 22 against your team's best 22

[Cats Flag 07]

B: Morris, Harris, Hargrave
F: Stokes, Hawkins, Johnson
HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HF: Chapman, Mooney, Kelly
[/B]C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: Wojcinski, Ling, Corey
HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HB: Mackie, Egan, Milburn
F: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
B: Enright, Scarlett, Harley
Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
Foll: Ottens, Bartel, Ablett
Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
Int: Rooke, Selwood, Hunt, Blake

I always get a little nervous when we come up against the Dogs. They are often very tight affairs. A point either way in 2006 and 1-1 in 2007. Of course, the Dogs won round one last year which is always difficult to guage teh fortunes of teams and then the Cats thumped them when we were up and going.

It seems that B. Johnson is a key in all of this. I remember bags of 7 and 8 against the Cats when Harley, Scarlett, Egan couldn't contain him.....he's just one of those players who's so hard to stop when on song.

However, this mostly happens when the GFC mids aren't doing enough. Hahn is a handy inclusion for 2008, but i think the GFC back 6 is just on top. In saying that however, the Dogs can pile on big scores and shootouts between these two teams are not uncommon.

What i've done is try to match up opponents and then highlighted who i think wins the battle. If it's a break even situation, then neither player in a particular position will be highlighted. However, we all know that match ups at the start of the game are rarely observed for the entirety.

There are a few pretty good match-ups, but i have the Cats having more winners over the ground.....which should be the case. Mooney on Williams is a big worry for you.

If anything i may have gone a little easy on the Dogs. It's hard to have many winners when playing a side with 9 AAs. If the Cats are full strength and playing the way they can, i don't see anyone getting near them....so don't stress.

The Dogs should make the 8 though, but not top 4.

 

[Schmick]

OMG HOW DID I LEAVE OUT CARRAZZO my bad soz

The only explanation i can think of is that you are not a true Carlton supporter......

 

[dynamic-demons]

B: Morris, Harris, Hargrave
FF: DAVEY NEITZ Newton

HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HF: Sylvia ROBBO BATE

C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: GREEN JONES BRUCE

HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HB: PETTARD RIVERS BELL

F: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
FB: WHELAN CARROLL FRAWLEY

Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
FOLL: WHITE MCLEAN MCDONALD

Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
INT: MEESEN BARTRAM MILLER MOLONEY

Pretty good game i would expect

 

[SirJimi05]

Perhaps you could enlighten me with your scores and the reasoning behind the scores. When you don't watch a side week in week out it is difficult to properly assess players. I admit to that.

You have listed all players with a rating out of 10 with 10 being the best possible score right? Their is no special reasoning that needs to be given. You have rated many players higher then what they should be and you have underated some Doggies players.

If those rating were done for the season of 2007 only i would say that it is not too bad, otherwise the list is not the best.

BTW i would say that i watched Geelong atleast 15-20 times last year and i think you can get a pretty good idea on players and teams by watching them play that many times.

 

[SurreyBlue]

B: Harris, Morris, Hargrave
F: Cloke, Fevola, Murphy
HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HF: Fisher, Waite, Gibbs
C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: Houlihan, Hadley, Simpson
HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HB: Scotland, Thornton, Walker
F: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
B: Carrazzo, O'hAilpin, Jamison
Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
Foll: Ackland, Judd, Stevens

Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
Int: Betts, Jackson, Russell, Kruezer

ps.
Looking for Pfeffier to take BP and let Carrazzo move back into midfield rotation with Hadley. For now however, this is the 22.

Bulldogs need to move one of their tall defenders, ie. Evertitt, Hargrave or Williams forward of the centre to make any in-roads during the finals. Will play finals this year.

 

[Monkeyboy]

Doggies would smash Richmond and account for the Dees. After that, things are looking a little thin.

 

[anti.]

B: Morris, Harris, Hargrave
F: Lecras, Lynch, Staker

HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HF: Wirra, Hansen, Embley

C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: Braun, Stenglein, Priddis

HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HB: Waters, Hunter, B.Jones

F: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
B: Hurn, Glass, Nicoski

Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
Foll: Cox, Kerr, Selwood

Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
Int: Butler, Fletcher, Rosa , Seaby

I'd have selwood on cooney because he always seems to do the job on him. that pushes priddis out of the center bounce, with griffen playing on him.

bulldogs have an odd forward line but we can handle them quite alright, we have many utility type small-mid defenders who can do good jobs.

i dont really rate their backline too highly, and even though our forward line is average it can still score big against this fragile backline. the dogs have too many runners and not enough lock down type players. dale morris is their best defender by a mile.

i'd like wirra and embley on our forward flanks as they are very damaging when in possesion of the ball making gilbee and everitt attempt to play accountable football.

personally i think west coast got it all over the dogs. saying that the dogs will finish from 6-10. probably 7th.

 

[Palace03]

I would say that our best 22 is better than; not talking about a better team here just a best 22.
Richmond
Carlton
Melbourne
Essendon
Fremantle

On par with
Collingwood
Adelaide
Sydney

And behind the rest. Just shows that teams like Sydney and Collingwood are working harder than us and are getting the max out of their ability, because I don't think they're players are any more talented than ours overall.

 

[wce2008]

B: ----------Morris----,--- Harris,--Hargrave

F:--------- Wirrpanda,----Lynch-- Brown

HB: --------Gilbee, ------Williams,-- Everitt

HF:--------Embley------Hansen----LeCras

C: --------Boyd, --------West, ----Griffen

C:--------Rosa----------Priddis----A.Selwood

HF: -----Akermanis, ----Murphy, --Johnson

HB:------Waters------Hunter-----Butler

F: ------Higgins,------- Welsh, -----Hahn

FB-------Nickoski------Glass------B.Jones

Foll: ----Hudson,------ Cross, ----Cooney

Foll:-----Cox---------Kerr--------Stenghlin

Int:------- Giansiracusa, -----Ray,-----Callan,-------Minson

Int:------- Kennedy, -------Braun-----Hurn---------Seaby

 

[Sttew]

You have listed all players with a rating out of 10 with 10 being the best possible score right? Their is no special reasoning that needs to be given. You have rated many players higher then what they should be and you have underated some Doggies players.

If those rating were done for the season of 2007 only i would say that it is not too bad, otherwise the list is not the best.

BTW i would say that i watched Geelong atleast 15-20 times last year and i think you can get a pretty good idea on players and teams by watching them play that many times.

Okay!!

I am "old school" and prefer to see scores rather than descriptive assessments (I'm NOT a teacher, though). Of course I based my rankings on 2007 form. What else can you do? If Geelong crashes in 2008, my rankings would reflct that. Similarly, if players from other sides hit form, their rankings would reflect that too.

 

[wotdude25]

Just like any team the dogs can have flexibility.
I understand that many people under rate us due to our poor form at the end of last year. Bias is also having a huge effect as well, especially from the Essendon supporters who were by the way the last team that we beat before our bad run.
I know every supporter from every team believes that thier team should beat most other teams. What would make this work a bit more is a comparison of the lists by people that don't support either team.
Another thing I have noticed is that the supporters of the teams that finished highly on the ladder give us more respect than the teams that finished below us. Bulldogs have always been the team that it is impossible to write off a game and often stage big comebacks. They have improved thier general fitness (strength and speed, endurance, agility) over the off season. As a much fitter team that also makes our biggest strength (the run) even stronger and has helped to improve our weaknesses.
Looking at a lot of these team lists it is very difficult to say where we will finish in 2008. We beat 3 top 4 sides last year rather easily and we are capable of replicating that form. Although we probably won't dominate we are a team that can beat almost any other team so watch out.
Thanks to everyone for giving an honest view in this thread.

 

[}>-DEMON-<{]

It's the one question nobody seems to want to answer about this club.

How the hell have we let it come to a point where we just simply do not have any sort of skilful young tall forwards. Also, did we not see that Darce would be retiring and that we might need a young ruckman...

It seems this draft has gone some ways to rectifying the issues, but it needed to be done long ago

You tried to poach Robbo as a band-aid fix, but to no avail

 

[good2bblue]

One thing we know is that the Bulldog's 22 would beat Richmond's 22 at least 9 times out of 10. This is nothing to do with list management, just wanting to get back at Terry Wallet and Nathan 'Mercenary' Brown for walking out on the club.

 

[bomberz08]

I reckon will finish higher than Essendon, but Essendon would beat the Bulldogs, if that makes any sense.

no we'll do both ahahahahhahaha im medium

 

[gangsta deluxe]

One thing we know is that the Bulldog's 22 would beat Richmond's 22 at least 9 times out of 10. This is nothing to do with list management, just wanting to get back at Terry Wallet and Nathan 'Mercenary' Brown for walking out on the club.

I disagree. We may beat them nine times out of ten for other reasons but vengeance is not one of them. All the players don't hate Wallet and Brown. I think Mcmahon's departure highlighted that fact

 

[johnmandiddy]

Very good thread…
A few things though…
-To Cats Flag 07, top post, but I would highlight Morris on Stokes and I probably wouldn’t highlight Egan (although AA) over Murphy (who is flying by all reports).
-On my own here, but I think Sttews list was pretty good… I’d just have Ray, maybe Harley and Morris higher and Cooney, Selwood and at the moment Williams lower
-wotdude25 I think made an excellent post, the competition’s evenness highlights this
-demon, we did try to poach robbo, which I wouldn’t have been overly thrilled with, and you are right, it would have been a band aid fix…

Thanks everyone for posting and keep up the good work

 

[Scotland]

B: Morris, Harris, Hargrave
F: Lecras, Lynch, Staker

HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HF: Wirra, Hansen, Embley

C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: Braun, Stenglein, Priddis

HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HB: Waters, Hunter, B.Jones

F: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
B: Hurn, Glass, Nicoski

Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
Foll: Cox, Kerr, Selwood

Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
Int: Butler, Fletcher, Rosa , Seaby

The Dogs have matched up well against us in recent years, beating us in both our GF years of 2005 and 2006, though in the 2006 finals and 2007 season, we had their measure easily, despite dropping off from a top 2 side in 2007. Be interesting to see what 2008 holds.

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

You mean to tell me that you've picked up a million #1 draft picks over the last 3 years and Cameron Cloke is still in the best 22?

Carlton has not progressed.

Agreed, and their backline is atrocious....still.

Having said that, I think we grossly overrate Cox, and ruckmen in general, because of the midfield they have. Would not be at all suprised to see CLoke be pumped up once Judd, Stevens etc start running amok.

 

[dogupya]

My overall sense from reading all of the posts is that The bulldogs are very much regarded as a bottom 8 side, with a few people saying they could go either way, top 8 or bottom 4.

Even with the inclusion of some handy recruits, it still seems that the over riding feeling is that we still havent addressed the core issues of our club, that being, hardness at the stoppages, tall marking options up forwards and mental weakness when pressure is applied.

To that i say, its very hard to find those sorts of players and I think we've done well considering. Ben Hudson is a quality ruckman who is also veryt good at getting his own ball and is fierce at the contest. (even though he played for Werribee and we somehow managed to miss him, but I'll let that one go)

we've got Scott welsh, whilst he isn't 6ft 6, he is still a very good mark and a deadly kick for goal. If he can chime in with 40 odd, that is a real plus for us. These players are fill in's and hopefully players like Jarrad Grant can step up and fill the voids left by pervious pathetic drafting.

My sense of this year is that we will improve on stoppages and play less of a downhill skiing type of football. we've increased mass, but at what cost to fitness, we'll have to wait and see?

Given all the critisism of our weakness under pressure, it has to be the single sole thing that gets looked at and beaten out of the players.

We have enough talent (I believe), we simply don't have the mental application to follow through. The close enough is good enough mentality has to die this year and we need to dig deep when expectation is on us. Whether that happens is another story.

I predict us finishing between 6-8 this year and will not be at all surprised if we finish bottom 4.

 

[dogbowl]

Attention all trolls, tools, media and other doubters. Please keep heaping scorn on us, and tipping us for bottom 4 again. We respond sooooooo much better when nobody rates us (a bit like the Kangas), and fall over with any sort of expectation.

In fact, anyone for the Doggies to take the spoon?

 

[Pigdog]

Ben Hudson is a quality ruckman who is also veryt good at getting his own ball and is fierce at the contest. (even though he played for Werribee and we somehow managed to miss him, but I'll let that one go)

You can blame our former coach who is now the Port Adelaide football manger for that one.

 

[Cats Flag 07]

Attention all trolls, tools, media and other doubters. Please keep heaping scorn on us, and tipping us for bottom 4 again. We respond sooooooo much better when nobody rates us (a bit like the Kangas), and fall over with any sort of expectation.

In fact, anyone for the Doggies to take the spoon?

That's not a admirable attribute. Looks like it will be a while before you win a flag then if you can't win when expected.

Some could say that was GFC's problem in the past. A major change in attitude and a sense of belonging on the big stage was a major factor in them going all the way......

Their attitude was anyone, anytime, anywhere.

You have to believe you are going to win every time you step out there.

 

[melbourne150]

B: Morris, Harris, Hargrave
FF: Davey Neitz Robertson

HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HF: Bate Newton Yze

C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: Bruce McLean Sylvia

HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HB: Bell Rivers Green

F: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
FB: Whelan Carroll Frawley

Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
Foll: White Jones McDonald

Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
Int: Meesen Bartram Petterd Miller

 

[DOCKER MAN]

B: Morris, Harris, Hargrave
B: Hayden, Grover, Dodd
HB: Gilbee, Williams, Everitt
HB: Johnson, Mcpharlin, Mundy
C: Boyd, West, Griffen
C: Shammer, J Carr, Peake
HF: Akermanis, Murphy, Johnson
HF: Headland, Pavlich, Foster
FF: Higgins, Welsh, Hahn
FF: Farmer, Tarrant, Warnock
Foll: Hudson, Cross, Cooney
Ruck: Sandilands, Crowley, Haselby
Int: Giansiracusa, Ray, Callan, Minson
IC: Bell, Gilmore, Solomon, Black

Just having a look at the 2 best 22's i think that Freo's is far superior across the ground bar the on ballers.

 

[doggies_5]

Doggies would smash Richmond and account for the Dees. After that, things are looking a little thin.

I think you should worry a bit about your own team before you worry about us.