The Charles Cameron Apology Thread

[Jeffcrowe]

For mine I thought he was a liability coming into finals. My biggest gripe was not using his speed with efficiency. Once the throttle was on full....the kicks could go anywhere.

He had an extraordinary prelim final.....I won't deny that.

I don't look at stats so I go with my own gut feel after watching every game this year.

Last year I thought wow....this guy can become elite. This year I felt he took a backwards step. I don't expect him to have a blinder every game but he does need to think more instead of just blazing away when under pressure.

The kid has a really good kick when he has time and composure.

So you are taking 1 part of his game to judge him and missing the good stuff

The coaches see his value because they watch the whole game and edit his involvements both offensive and defensive and consider his game as a whole

 

[Jack is Back]

Depends how you define poor

To side with Vader should be telling you something about your opinion

I have to defend Vader. His opinions on players in our team are usually spot on. It is just his opinions about players he has never seen that are shit .

 

[Bovo]

So you are taking 1 part of his game to judge him and missing the good stuff

Maybe. But that is my right. I don't think this was a great year for CC in my opinion.

The coaches see his value because they watch the whole game and edit his involvements both offensive and defensive and consider his game as a whole

I am sure they do. You need to understand all that does not change the opinion of posters.

 

[Elite Crow]

He wasnt at his usual standard while still performing a role for the team . The asute knew he had the tools to perform in finals and backed him in. Some foolishly wanted him dropped.

The coaches didn't think he was performing his role that well given his low scoring.

And who knows, maybe if he was dropped he might have produced a bit earlier.

 

[Elite Crow]

So you are taking 1 part of his game to judge him and missing the good stuff

The coaches see his value because they watch the whole game and edit his involvements both offensive and defensive and consider his game as a whole

And scored him accordingly, quite poorly.

 

[FR0GGY]

Because it matters if he stays or if he goes

What was his injury you alluded to during the year?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So you agree he was poor and carried.

Why do you think that was?

 

[Elite Crow]

Why do you think that was?

That he was poor or carried?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That he was poor or carried?

'Carried'

 

[Elite Crow]

'Carried'

Because on his day he's very valuable, the problem is for about 2 months leading up to the finals he wasn't, coaches votes confirm that.

Are you suggesting he's immune to being dropped? If he was dropped it might have been the rocket he needed.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Because on his day he's very valuable, the problem is for about 2 months leading up to the finals he wasn't, coaches votes confirm that.

Are you suggesting he's immune to being dropped? If he was dropped it might have been the rocket he needed.

Yeah I don't think you drop players who you believe are your finals match winners.

You can't pick or choose either. You can't say that you'll have him in for the games he plays well only but for the games he plays badly he's out.

Some players you have to take the bad with the good.

If he produced games like the preliminary final more consistently then he'd be better than Leigh Matthews and Wayne Carey combined which is a ridiculous benchmark some are now using to highlight his lower output previously.[/QUOTE]

 

[Elite Crow]

Yeah I don't think you drop players who you believe are your finals match winners.

You can't pick or choose either. You can't say that you'll have him in for the games he plays well only but for the games he plays badly he's out.

Some players you have to take the bad with the good.

If he produced games like the preliminary final more consistently then he'd be better than Leigh Matthews and Wayne Carey combined which is a ridiculous benchmark some are now using to highlight his lower output previously.

So 6 weeks out from the finals and his form is average, you can't drop him because he might turn it on in finals?

We aren't talking about 5 goal games as the benchmark but he had 10 possession games.

There would have been no harm to say "Charlie you've been poor, go back to the SANFL and get your shit together"

But there are a couple of discussions going on here, one dropping him due to his finals history and the other "he's playing well" which he clearly wasn't as evidenced by his voting.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

What was his injury you alluded to during the year?

back / hip / groins chronic issues

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So 6 weeks out from the finals and his form is average, you can't drop him because he might turn it on in finals?

We aren't talking about 5 goal games as the benchmark but he had 10 possession games.

There would have been no harm to say "Charlie you've been poor, go back to the SANFL and get your shit together"

But there are a couple of discussions going on here, one dropping him due to his finals history and the other "he's playing well" which he clearly wasn't as evidenced by his voting.

You guys still haven't worked it out

He was clearly playing a role

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The coaches didn't think he was performing his role that well given his low scoring.

And who knows, maybe if he was dropped he might have produced a bit earlier.

He would have rested not dropped

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Maybe. But that is my right. I don't think this was a great year for CC in my opinion.


I am sure they do. You need to understand all that does not change the opinion of posters.

Great

 

[Elite Crow]

You guys still haven't worked it out

He was clearly playing a role

Then why wasn't he acknowledged by the coaches?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Then why wasn't he acknowledged by the coaches?

He was by being first choice and position in team never in doubt

 

[hey shorty]

He was by being first choice and position in team never in doubt

It should have been.

From the Brisbane game to the PF he had one good game. One.

 

[Elite Crow]

He was by being first choice and position in team never in doubt

Your rationale is he was doing his role well as he kept getting selected, but we did lack alternatives hence his continued selection.

You also can't deny what the coaches thought of his games in the second half of the year, they marked his performances down in the B&F, there is no denying that. Especially after you used the B&F votes to confirm what a good season he had. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Scorpus]

He was by being first choice and position in team never in doubt

This is poor justification.

The B&F is a direct evaluation method by the coaches that tells us whether the coaches thought a player was playing their role.

From Round 11 to the Grand Final, Cameron had 7 games where he polled 4 or fewer votes. This means that in those 7 games, at least one coach did not feel Cameron played his role.

This means that in half the games Cameron played between R11 and the GF, Cameron was deemed to not actually play his role in that time by at least one coach.

He is actually the only player in that period of time that polled 4 or fewer votes on 7 occasions. The next closest is Otten (6), Atkins (6) and Greenwood (5)

 

[Elite Crow]

This is poor justification.

The B&F is a direct evaluation method by the coaches that tells us whether the coaches thought a player was playing their role.

From Round 11 to the Grand Final, Cameron had 7 games where he polled 4 or fewer votes. This means that in those 7 games, at least one coach did not feel Cameron played his role.

This means that in half the games Cameron played between R11 and the GF, Cameron was deemed to not actually play his role in that time by at least one coach.

He is actually the only player in that period of time that polled 4 or fewer votes on 7 occasions. The next closest is Otten (6), Atkins (6) and Greenwood (5)

The thing is Jeff has no where to go on this considering he used Cameron's B&F finish to talk up his season.

 

[Bovo]

This is not a let's bag Cameron thread though. This is an apology thread. Arguing we should apologise for an okay season is far from justifiable.

I am definitely not saying he did not deserve to be in the team. His good was really good, but his bad was pretty bad. Overall his season was....a bit meh for mine. That prelim was bloody amazing but I was saying to myself where was that throughout the year? When he has that ball running full pace through the middle I would be saying....this going to go anywhere.....often out on the full or to a spot where no player was. I ain't apologising for that!!