The cultural impact and legacy of the moon landings

[Dont be a lemon]

I've been thinking today how most people, at least in Australia, say things like "when we landed on the moon rah rah". I've often presumed this is a feeling of the achievement of humanity in leaving Earth and landing elsewhere.

If the Soviet Union had gotten humans on the moon first would there be this sense of "we [humanity]" of having landed on the moon? I'm particularly wondering how Americans and the citizens of other western nations would feel towards it.

And whilst I don't want this to be a political topic (more a cultural topic), if the Soviet Union had of gotten to the moon do you think it would of had an affect on future events there? Would the Soviet Union still exist today?

Discuss!

 

[scotty13]

The Americans never landed on the moon (at least in 69 or whenever they claim was the first time).

it was a hoax and it has been proved to be a false landing.

 

[Zombie Woof]

I've been thinking today how most people, at least in Australia, say things like "when we landed on the moon rah rah". I've often presumed this is a feeling of the achievement of humanity in leaving Earth and landing elsewhere.

If the Soviet Union had gotten humans on the moon first would there be this since of "we [humanity]" of having landed on the moon? I'm particularly wondering how Americans and the citizens of other western nations would feel towards it.

And whilst I don't want this to be a political topic (more a cultural topic), if the Soviet Union had of gotten to the moon do you think it would of had an affect on future events there? Would the Soviet Union still exist today?

Discuss!

You say "we" when you feel included. The NASA-media connection gave us friendly access, pss-poor though it was technically. And so we participated.

I doubt Russia could have managed the media side in a positive inclusive manner. Probly more like the vibe you get from watching a parade of nuclear missiles though Moscow. It would have been a used for puffing themselves up....As we were not their friends...so it would have seemd threatening not participatory.

 

[Jafa]

The Americans never landed on the moon (at least in 69 or whenever they claim was the first time).

it was a hoax and it has been proved to be a false landing.

Bullshit - just bullshit. I suppose the yanks felled the towers as well.

 

[tandino]

You say "we" when you feel included. The NASA-media connection gave us friendly access, pss-poor though it was technically. And so we participated.

I doubt Russia could have managed the media side in a positive inclusive manner. Probly more like the vibe you get from watching a parade of nuclear missiles though Moscow. It would have been a used for puffing themselves up....As we were not their friends...so it would have seemd threatening not participatory.

Yeah pretty spot on there.

I think the fact that Australia was on the United States side of the Iron Curtain, the "right side" of the Berlin Wall, gives us ownership of the moon landing, even though in reality we didn't have much to do with the whole operation (save for Honeysuckle Creek and Parkes, etc.)

Will the Soviet Union still be in power if they got there first? I doubt it very much, because at the end of the day their downfall had little to do with the space race.

 

[Generalissimo]

The Americans never landed on the moon (at least in 69 or whenever they claim was the first time).

it was a hoax and it has been proved to be a false landing.

Rubbish.

 

[Richo83]

I have never heard someone say "when we landed on the moon..." as said in the op so the question is moot. Most intelligent people know about the numerous steps in progression in the human race, not just the moon landings.

Infact my father of 60 years old saw it as a small rather insignificant event, we still know barely anything about our universe and much of the stuff we do know had nothing to do with the moon landings but to do with other observations.

 

[Perrin]

The Americans never landed on the moon (at least in 69 or whenever they claim was the first time).

it was a hoax and it has been proved to be a false landing.

I can't believe people still peddle this nonsense around.

 

[Perrin]

Infact my father of 60 years old saw it as a small rather insignificant event

Just a small step perhaps

 

[Richo83]

Just a small step perhaps

Everything we've found out about outer space after the moon landings could have happened even if we didn't land on the moon, from scientific research from institutions which existed far before 69. All we found out about the moon landings is:

1. That if a nation trump up an event as the biggest event since the invention of sliced bread, it can become more important than it really is.
2. That we can fly to the moon. Wow.
3. That if you put on a heavy suit you can walk around a lifeless planet without suffocating. Again, wow, profound.

All the moon landings was was something to make the masses exited. I'll give you something that's actually important, the sequencing of the DNA throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

[Clay Davis]

Everything we've found out about outer space after the moon landings could have happened even if we didn't land on the moon, from scientific research from institutions which existed far before 69. All we found out about the moon landings is:

1. That if a nation trump up an event as the biggest event since the invention of sliced bread, it can become more important than it really is.
2. That we can fly to the moon. Wow.
3. That if you put on a heavy suit you can walk around a lifeless planet without suffocating. Again, wow, profound.

All the moon landings was was something to make the masses exited. I'll give you something that's actually important, the sequencing of the DNA throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

Wow, you reduce one of the engineering marvels of human history to nothing.

Yep, definitely a miserable Richmond fan.

 

[Clay Davis]

Majorly progressing:

Integrated circuits
CNC machining (massive development for manufacturing)
Fuel cells

were just some of the achievements of the Apollo program. At least two of those things have brought human kind massive real benefits beyond what DNA sequencing has given us. In fact, DNA sequencing could possibly be a can of worms.

Also, speaking to my father, the Apollo program inspired many kids his age to take up maths, physics and engineering - subjects that struggle to attract enough people these days, where there is actually a desperate need.

So yeah, it was nothing.

 

[skilts]

As I walked to my home in Bentleigh from Patterson Station, on the night blokes landed on the moon, I was in front of the pack of commuters. Even though it was still daylight, the moon was visible, and straight ahead of me. I happened to look up at it, for quite a while actually. I thought, "There is a couple of us up there."

After I'd done my looking at the moon, I turned around to see about 40 people following me, with their eyes to the sky, presumably thinking similar thoughts. That's the only cultural impact I can recall stemming from the event.

It's now in third place after 11th September 2001 and Kennedy's assassination as the biggest news stories I've known, so I suppose that's also a cultural impact.

 

[JW Frogen]

That is one cool flag on the Moon.

The only one so far.

I rest my case.

 

[Richo83]

Majorly progressing:

Integrated circuits
CNC machining (massive development for manufacturing)
Fuel cells

were just some of the achievements of the Apollo program. At least two of those things have brought human kind massive real benefits beyond what DNA sequencing has given us. In fact, DNA sequencing could possibly be a can of worms.

Also, speaking to my father, the Apollo program inspired many kids his age to take up maths, physics and engineering - subjects that struggle to attract enough people these days, where there is actually a desperate need.

So yeah, it was nothing.

Intergrated circuts and CNC machining were around before 69, I don't believe that if we hadn't have landed on the moon, development in said fields wouldn't have been able to be continued.

Fuel cells, heh a flight to pluto would be more beneficial to the development of those guys.

You want something bigger than DNA sequencing (which is actually quite big fwiw, especially in biology), how about the finding of spectrum radiation, which has huge implications in the fields of physics and astronomy.

All I'm saying is that the moon landing is trumped up as one of the feats of the 20th century, when in reality it was a relatively small event, in which most knowledge about outer space hasn't come from space expeditions but from other sources.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Was it the greatest acheivement of humanity? Different individuals will define "great" differently. In terms of technological acheivements, it was clearly one of the most resounding - coming about 70 years after powered flight was proven to be impossioble; and just 60 years after powered flight was acheived. But bigger than the bombing of Hiroshima, bigger than its own spin offs in computing power, bigger than the television which made it such a mass event, bigger than more scientific acheivemtns such as Newton's Principia or Einstein's relativity theories, or Darwin's evolution theories that have rocked religion's hold on the mind in so many places (as big as any scientific breakthrough, and as big as any cultural/religious change)? Its all a matter of perspective. At the time it probably seemed so, and its certainly a colossus among acheivments, but greatest ever; probably not.
In terms of grandiose plans realised, and seeming impossibilities, escaping the planet and landing on another world is the one that should have opened the imagination and the possibilities - yet somehow didn't.

The fact that it was the USA rather than the USSR certainly helped play up the feat in the western world. Sputnik and Yuri Gargarin's spaceflight were, in many ways, as big an advancement as the lunar landing; but in the midst of the cold war propoganda value was on any race your side won.
Politically, it was the only main coup of the space race for the USA - but it proved to be the biggest one.

Its hard for those us not born until afterwards to imagine how incredible the venture must have sounded at the time; and the potentials that suddenly opened up to everyone. What would have been an even bigger surprise to those at the time was that just three years later the last manned lunar mission for over 30 years (unless NASA, or China, has something planned in the very near future) would have occurred.

In scientific terms Richo is correct. Apart from returning a few rocks and confirming the moon's origins, little scientific progress was directly made through the lunar landings themselves that wouldn't have been made with unmanned flights, terrestrial observation (visual and radio), space based observation (such as Hubble), and other manned flights with no landings. Although, without the lunar landings, would the US Congress have gone on to fund these other measures (such as Hubble or the shuttle program)?

 

[Clay Davis]

Was it the greatest acheivement of humanity? Different individuals will define "great" differently. In terms of technological acheivements, it was clearly one of the most resounding - coming about 70 years after powered flight was proven to be impossioble; and just 60 years after powered flight was acheived. But bigger than the bombing of Hiroshima, bigger than its own spin offs in computing power, bigger than the television which made it such a mass event, bigger than more scientific acheivemtns such as Newton's Principia or Einstein's relativity theories, or Darwin's evolution theories that have rocked religion's hold on the mind in so many places (as big as any scientific breakthrough, and as big as any cultural/religious change)? Its all a matter of perspective. At the time it probably seemed so, and its certainly a colossus among acheivments, but greatest ever; probably not.
In terms of grandiose plans realised, and seeming impossibilities, escaping the planet and landing on another world is the one that should have opened the imagination and the possibilities - yet somehow didn't.

The fact that it was the USA rather than the USSR certainly helped play up the feat in the western world. Sputnik and Yuri Gargarin's spaceflight were, in many ways, as big an advancement as the lunar landing; but in the midst of the cold war propoganda value was on any race your side won.
Politically, it was the only main coup of the space race for the USA - but it proved to be the biggest one.

Its hard for those us not born until afterwards to imagine how incredible the venture must have sounded at the time; and the potentials that suddenly opened up to everyone. What would have been an even bigger surprise to those at the time was that just three years later the last manned lunar mission for over 30 years (unless NASA, or China, has something planned in the very near future) would have occurred.

In scientific terms Richo is correct. Apart from returning a few rocks and confirming the moon's origins, little scientific progress was directly made through the lunar landings themselves that wouldn't have been made with unmanned flights, terrestrial observation (visual and radio), space based observation (such as Hubble), and other manned flights with no landings. Although, without the lunar landings, would the US Congress have gone on to fund these other measures (such as Hubble or the shuttle program)?

I agree.

I think as an engineering feat it is probably the greatest ever. I think for Richo83 to boil down the whole mission as sticking a bloke in a heavy suit that doesn't mean anything misses the point. There were numerous spinoffs that have benefitted humanity, and they progressed technology at a rate that is usually only accomplished in war time.

There's science, and then there's engineering. And as amazing scientific discoveries seem, they are generally conducted very slowly with no demand driving them. Engineering is a whole other world of complexities and assumptions where sometimes the best science won't fit.

 

[Zombie Woof]

I agree.

I think as an engineering feat it is probably the greatest ever. I think for Richo83 to boil down the whole mission as sticking a bloke in a heavy suit that doesn't mean anything misses the point. There were numerous spinoffs that have benefited humanity, and they progressed technology at a rate that is usually only accomplished in war time.

There's science, and then there's engineering. And as amazing scientific discoveries seem, they are generally conducted very slowly with no demand driving them. Engineering is a whole other world of complexities and assumptions where sometimes the best science won't fit.

The thread is about CULtural effects not scientific advancement. Richo derailed it to 'scientific value'.

It is my impression that the lack of discovery of anything really surprising was a dampener on public interest, and probably dampened the politician's view of funding expensive programs that might well take decades to get to a significant next step.

But it was good to actually get proof that the Moon had once been part of Earth.

And the Moon has been gazed at by many a wise man over 2,500 years or more, trying to figure it out. To my eyes, the Moon and the Sun look quite similar in size rising, setting or higher in the sky. What an unfortunate fluke! I think that contributed to fooling some of the ancient observers as to the nature of the solar system. They both go across the firmament, they're both the same size...seems like the Earth is the centre. But now any primary school child knows the truth.(yeah yeah they knew that before the Lunar landing, but it sure did complete the story.) Hey, ancient Greeks, we nailed that one!! (There was a time long ago when the Classics were held to be an essential part of one's higher education. Not any more.)

Culturally, I think it made the idea of Heaven being a place above the clouds really finally dead in the water. because you can see the Moon, and it is above the clouds, and i can write to men who have been there and did see black space and Earth and a moon, which i can also see from my own back yard. So i can't believe scriptures that assert otherwise.

I also think the Earth photos have had an unexpected effect on some people's sense of themselves in the cosmos and their tenderness for this fragile miracle of Earth.

 

[Richo83]

I agree.

I think as an engineering feat it is probably the greatest ever. I think for Richo83 to boil down the whole mission as sticking a bloke in a heavy suit that doesn't mean anything misses the point. There were numerous spinoffs that have benefitted humanity, and they progressed technology at a rate that is usually only accomplished in war time.

There's science, and then there's engineering. And as amazing scientific discoveries seem, they are generally conducted very slowly with no demand driving them. Engineering is a whole other world of complexities and assumptions where sometimes the best science won't fit.

Firstly, it was gravy who derailed this thread onto scientific affairs, not me, so don't crap on about me "derailing threads".

My first point though is when do you hear people talk about other scientific advances the same way they talk about the moon landings. Why is the moon landings remembered much more than other scientific feats?

Is it because it was a more scientific achievement? No.
Was it because scientifically, it was crucial? Not really.

Was it because it was televised heaps and was steeped in political and social importance? Yes.

Was it because it was one sellable event which could be explained easily to the public? Again yes.

No science though.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Firstly, it was gravy who derailed this thread onto scientific affairs, not me, so don't crap on about me "derailing threads".

My first point though is when do you hear people talk about other scientific advances the same way they talk about the moon landings. Why is the moon landings remembered much more than other scientific feats?

Is it because it was a more scientific achievement? No.
Was it because scientifically, it was crucial? Not really.

Was it because it was televised heaps and was steeped in political and social importance? Yes.

Was it because it was one sellable event which could be explained easily to the public? Again yes.

No science though.

The moon landing is where politics, myth and human striving meet. I suppose it is the ultimate symbolic gesture that man can do stuff. It really was pointless - but the astronauts where all incredible people - brave test pilots with PhDs in Physics - Tom Wolfe got it right when he said they had the "Right Stuff"

 

[Dont be a lemon]

And the Moon has been gazed at by many a wise man over 2,500 years or more, trying to figure it out.

Try 200,000 years.

 

[Richo83]

The moon landing is where politics, myth and human striving meet. I suppose it is the ultimate symbolic gesture that man can do stuff. It really was pointless - but the astronauts where all incredible people - brave test pilots with PhDs in Physics - Tom Wolfe got it right when he said they had the "Right Stuff"

Oh no doubt, watching a doco on apollo 13 last night you really begin to respect the skill both astronauts and ground crew have. I am in no way critiquing the skill or efforts of astronauts.

Just the claim that it was one of the most amazing feats of scientific history and 21st century history.

 

[Zombie Woof]

Try 200,000 years.

Allegedly.

Hang on, I did see one cave painting of what looked like a white "circle", but until now I had always thought it was just someone extolling the virtues of a slice of log.

 

[JavaBlue]

I have never heard someone say "when we landed on the moon..." as said in the op so the question is moot.

The validity of something does not hinge on whether you've heard of it or not. Otherwise the world would be full of moot.

Most intelligent people know about the numerous steps in progression in the human race, not just the moon landings.

Who are these intelligent people and how do we know they're intelligent? Is the ability to know and understand the statement "the numerous steps in progression in the human race" a sign of intelligence. I hope not for my sake.

Infact my father of 60 years old saw it as a small rather insignificant event..

Appeals to the authority of one's father, especially if the father in question is more so a "a small rather insignificant event", are not valid.

Like the dog licking itself, perhaps man went to the moon merely because he could. But to belittle this most significant journey as lacking in any scientific value is to completely misunderstand why man could make this trip. This attitude is a very good example of how science makes something possible while at the same time remaining barely noticeable in the background. The moon trip appears insignificant only if people forget the several hundred years of scientific research and discovery - dating back to the Galilean/ Newtonian synthesis of the terrestrial and celestial - that went into making this trip possible. It was, in many ways, the grand experiment.

It is also the first time in billions of years that anything's DNA (sequenced or unsequenced) has been off this rock and returned to talk about. It maybe the first time it's happened in the Universe. Okay, in the scheme of things, the Earth and the Moon don't even rate as pimples on the arse of an infinitely large hippopotamus. But from out perspective we are the first humans to see our planet home from the outside.

And it was a good opportunity for science to take a rare public bow.

As Skilts said, there [was] one of us up there. As an earth-hugging landlubber, I think that's fairly amazing.

 

[TuskenRaider]

Just the claim that it was one of the most amazing feats of scientific history and 21st century history.

Richo, I still don't know how you can argue that it wasn't one of the most amazing feats of scientific history. I understand you don't think it achieved anything scientifically, but the actual ability of man to set foot on the moon and return is nothing if not an amazing feat.

Like the dog licking itself, perhaps man went to the moon merely because he could. But to belittle this most significant journey as lacking in any scientific value is to completely misunderstand why man could make this trip. This attitude is a very good example of how science makes something possible while at the same time remaining barely noticeable in the background. The moon trip appears insignificant only if people forget the several hundred years of scientific research and discovery - dating back to the Galilean/ Newtonian synthesis of the terrestrial and celestial - that went into making this trip possible. It was, in many ways, the grand experiment.

It is also the first time in billions of years that anything's DNA (sequenced or unsequenced) has been off this rock and returned to talk about. It maybe the first time it's happened in the Universe. Okay, in the scheme of things, the Earth and the Moon don't even rate as pimples on the arse of an infinitely large hippopotamus. But from out perspective we are the first humans to see our planet home from the outside.

And it was a good opportunity for science to take a rare public bow.

As Skilts said, there [was] one of us up there. As an earth-hugging landlubber, I think that's fairly amazing.

Well said. Sometimes even now I look up there and think "geez, humans have been there and back!"