Unsolved The Family Murders

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...
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Dell43 said:
If it was Neil Muir at legal Aid the morning after (therefore at Derrances the night prior) do we know if he had a lawyer acting for him at the time? Who it was and what was he charged with?

Charlie Barnes has always been strong in his belief that it was not Alan at Legal Aid the morning after and outlined several reason why. One was that Alan at the time did have a lawyer acting for him, Stephen Ey from memory. The conversation between the receptionist and young man at Legal Aid was;

Receptionist- “have you got a lawyer acting for you at present”

Young man - “yes, Derrance Stevenson but the last time I saw him he wasn’t in a fit state to act for anyone”

Charlie can you confirm if this was or was not the type of language Alan was likely to use, I’m referring to the “he wasn’t in a fit state to act for anyone” part of the conversation. I think back to when I was 16 it wasn't they way I spoke (fit state to act for anyone). Also did Alan have his driver's license? Or if not, could he drive a car?
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Alan didn’t have a license and I can tell you this he would not have gone to legal aid with out mom being there . Remember he was on a charge over a rape at the time he was killed and had a lawyer so why would he have gone to legal aid ??? As far a Neil was concerned I don’t know but he was known to be in the same circles as derrances . Understand the family dynamics at play here , mom was alway involved in anything like the rape charge and all legal issues that we were involved in . We didn’t hide things from her as it was easier for us growing up to tell her what was going on then not . As for driving a car no he didn’t and wouldn’t have driven a car around anyway in Adelaide, not worth the fine if he go pulled over . He was planning to get a drivers license before he was killed


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Zebo said:
Peter went to Modbury High, so those references/rumours are incorrect.
Click to expand...

What primary school ?? Just down the road from Modbury high there is a primary school called ardtornish primary school . BVEs brother was a teacher there at one time . I lived on smart rd for over 12 years and it was said the Peter went to that school


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John Barnes said:
What primary school ?? Just down the road from Modbury high there is a primary school called ardtornish primary school . BVEs brother was a teacher there at one time . I lived on smart rd for over 12 years and it was said the Peter went to that school


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Click to expand...
Port Adelaide Primary, but they bought the Hope Valley house in Aug 76, so he would have had a further few years before high school. They lived adjacent to Modbury South Primary [same site as Modbury High back then] but Ardtornish isn't far away.

BVE's brother was at Pulteney well before then.

Also BVE's brother was not a qualified teacher. Do you know what he was 'teaching' or assisting with at a primary school?
 

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Kurve said:
We'd be more inclined simply to accept it was Szach if not for someone showing up at Legal Aid the next morning confirming at least one other unknown was at the house that night.
Click to expand...
Was a more comprehensive description of the legal aid guy ever released? Like, height, build, hair type, distinctive facial features?
 
Zebo said:
Port Adelaide Primary, but they bought the Hope Valley house in Aug 76, so he would have had a further few years before high school. They lived adjacent to Modbury South Primary [same site as Modbury High back then] but Ardtornish isn't far away.

BVE's brother was at Pulteney well before then.

Also BVE's brother was not a qualified teacher. Do you know what he was 'teaching' or assisting with at a primary school?
Click to expand...

There is a plate at that school thanking bves family for their help .


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JezMez said:
That's where I was at before the ebook was published and I'm still there. The e-book places a many tined fork in the road and I don't know which option to take, if at all.

Charlie's theory about BVE thinking Muir grassed him up has been debunked. BVE didn't know he was on the police's radar until after Muir as murdered. Someone (may have been Charlie as well) also theorised that BVE may have told Muir during pillow talk that he did Barnes and then thought he'd shut down that risk. I doubt they were having casual sex or in that type of relationship. Maybe BVE paid him in pills for sex on occasion (that Neil could then on-sell). Maybe, given that he sometimes used Muir as a lure, he told him he did Barnes as some sort of boast or threat?

But I still think at this stage, the most likely option is Woodards (some repeating of your points);

  • Barnes' death was accidental. They took him to a rental and BVE went too far with his insertion kink, ruptured Barnes' anus, he bled out, so they cleaned him, redressed him, dumped him, and ended the lease.
  • Woodards lived with Mr R
  • "Dr Steve" was know for slipping people mickeys at pubs and then being a good samaritan by "helping this drunk guy leave the premises and get home safely"
  • It's likely they talked freely about drugging young men/youths between themselves
  • Somehow the conversation about Barnes comes up. Woodards says he wants in and wouldn't mind doing some surgery. BVE says he'll call him next time he gets someone
  • Woodards is a wannabe surgeon. Has his text books from med school still. He brushes up on his knowledge
  • Woodards decks his basement out for the job - table, tools, plastic

  • On the 27th, Muir goes back to Millhouse's. Neil has methodone, Millhouse has sex. Neil's band-aid comes off on the rug. The wound starts bleeding. They go to the bathroom and laundry where some blood is spilled. He reapplies the band-aid.
  • Meanwhile, BVE is hanging with Mr R and Dr Steve. Dr Steve says, "let's get someone tonight". BVE gets in his car and starts friving his beat.
  • Millhouse has had sex, Muir has had his hit. Generally speaking, people leave once they get what they want. Muir leaves and walks to O'Connell St to get a bus. It could be as early as 5pm.
  • BVE sees him and reasons to himself, "here's an easy target. A junkie with NFA won't be missed. Barnes was an accident and brought some media attention. No one will miss Neil. He's still youngish looking a pretty. Woodards and Mr R don't know he's a 25 year old junkie". So BVE offers Muir a beer and Muir doesn't think BVE will ever do it to him. Or maybe BVE said, "hey, a doctor friend mind can get pharmaceutical H. I'm going their right now, you should come....."
  • BVE takes him straight to Woodards' or Mr R's house where it's all set up. They all rape him for a couple of hours. BVE now knows that inserting a large bottle or something similar will split the lining. Neil dies, Woodards cuts him up. They play around with some sex change stuff on his genitals.
  • Maybe he's dead as early as 9pm. That gives as much as 8 hours to cut him up and drive the 15km to Mutton Cove and dump him.
  • The next day the media report they found Neil. BVE knows Muir was at Millhouse's immediately before he picked him up. BVE pays Millhouse a visit. "Hey Pete, word on the street is you killed Muir. You're sort of f-ed mate". "They're going to think it's me, what should I do?". "Well he bled in your bathroom, it doesn't look good. I'd clean that with bleach". "His prints are all over my car!". "I'll sort that, I'll dump your car for you and drain it of fuel then you can say you didn't have a way to transport a dead body".

Aside: I'm yet to buy into Calvary, but what if it did happen there? And then BVE, under the guise of helping Millhouse, is actually trying to set him up by parking his car near Calvary? Unlikely, but you never know.

Also note: The e-book says grey hairs were found in Millhouse's bathroom and rug. Surely it could have been determined (albeit 3 years later) whether or not these hairs were BVE's?
Click to expand...
 
JezMez said:
That's where I was at before the ebook was published and I'm still there. The e-book places a many tined fork in the road and I don't know which option to take, if at all.

Charlie's theory about BVE thinking Muir grassed him up has been debunked. BVE didn't know he was on the police's radar until after Muir as murdered. Someone (may have been Charlie as well) also theorised that BVE may have told Muir during pillow talk that he did Barnes and then thought he'd shut down that risk. I doubt they were having casual sex or in that type of relationship. Maybe BVE paid him in pills for sex on occasion (that Neil could then on-sell). Maybe, given that he sometimes used Muir as a lure, he told him he did Barnes as some sort of boast or threat?

But I still think at this stage, the most likely option is Woodards (some repeating of your points);

  • Barnes' death was accidental. They took him to a rental and BVE went too far with his insertion kink, ruptured Barnes' anus, he bled out, so they cleaned him, redressed him, dumped him, and ended the lease.
  • Woodards lived with Mr R
  • "Dr Steve" was know for slipping people mickeys at pubs and then being a good samaritan by "helping this drunk guy leave the premises and get home safely"
  • It's likely they talked freely about drugging young men/youths between themselves
  • Somehow the conversation about Barnes comes up. Woodards says he wants in and wouldn't mind doing some surgery. BVE says he'll call him next time he gets someone
  • Woodards is a wannabe surgeon. Has his text books from med school still. He brushes up on his knowledge
  • Woodards decks his basement out for the job - table, tools, plastic

  • On the 27th, Muir goes back to Millhouse's. Neil has methodone, Millhouse has sex. Neil's band-aid comes off on the rug. The wound starts bleeding. They go to the bathroom and laundry where some blood is spilled. He reapplies the band-aid.
  • Meanwhile, BVE is hanging with Mr R and Dr Steve. Dr Steve says, "let's get someone tonight". BVE gets in his car and starts friving his beat.
  • Millhouse has had sex, Muir has had his hit. Generally speaking, people leave once they get what they want. Muir leaves and walks to O'Connell St to get a bus. It could be as early as 5pm.
  • BVE sees him and reasons to himself, "here's an easy target. A junkie with NFA won't be missed. Barnes was an accident and brought some media attention. No one will miss Neil. He's still youngish looking a pretty. Woodards and Mr R don't know he's a 25 year old junkie". So BVE offers Muir a beer and Muir doesn't think BVE will ever do it to him. Or maybe BVE said, "hey, a doctor friend mind can get pharmaceutical H. I'm going their right now, you should come....."
  • BVE takes him straight to Woodards' or Mr R's house where it's all set up. They all rape him for a couple of hours. BVE now knows that inserting a large bottle or something similar will split the lining. Neil dies, Woodards cuts him up. They play around with some sex change stuff on his genitals.
  • Maybe he's dead as early as 9pm. That gives as much as 8 hours to cut him up and drive the 15km to Mutton Cove and dump him.
  • The next day the media report they found Neil. BVE knows Muir was at Millhouse's immediately before he picked him up. BVE pays Millhouse a visit. "Hey Pete, word on the street is you killed Muir. You're sort of f-ed mate". "They're going to think it's me, what should I do?". "Well he bled in your bathroom, it doesn't look good. I'd clean that with bleach". "His prints are all over my car!". "I'll sort that, I'll dump your car for you and drain it of fuel then you can say you didn't have a way to transport a dead body".

Aside: I'm yet to buy into Calvary, but what if it did happen there? And then BVE, under the guise of helping Millhouse, is actually trying to set him up by parking his car near Calvary? Unlikely, but you never know.

Also note: The e-book says grey hairs were found in Millhouse's bathroom and rug. Surely it could have been determined (albeit 3 years later) whether or not these hairs were BVE's?
Click to expand...
Interesting theory. My issue with this is why would they drive to the other side of town, to dispose of Neil’s remains, when the hills were so much closer. Plenty of overgrown scrub up there to hide a couple of garbage bags. It just seems more logical to me to distance oneself quickly with the evidence.
 
John Barnes said:
No it was Queenstown


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Click to expand...
DK’s parents lived on Torrens Rd Cheltenham not Queenstown.
JezMez said:
We can almost be certain he ended up with BVE.
Last seen with someone who matched Brook's appearance.
But why was he hanging with a 26 year old who was said to be very camp?


He was going to wag school that day but it was canned by his cousin/uncle. He spoke to someone else the night before. His footy jumper (I believe it was a Roosters jumper) was missing. There was a guy he knew (19 or so) who lived a few doors from some well know predators.

So (according to ebook);
Stogneff knows "A". He was 18 or so, and has contacts in the sporting industry. He lived in Pennington (about 12km from Stogneff's, so not close at all). "A" appears to be another one of Stogneff's uncles.
Raymond Rozankowski lived 6 doors from A.
Rozankowski was an acquaintence of BVE. Met him in early 1970s as a teen, apparently took a boy back to BVE's in 1980 (in the thick of the action)
Rozankowski knew Mr R
In the 1990 court case, many witnesses said money and drugs were o offer by BVE and Mr R to "recruit youths".
Rozankowski was friends woth Andrew Pearce - both were changed later charged with a sexual assault of a boy that happened in 1980. The victim accurately described the inside of BVE's house.
Pearce was jailed for 14 years for historic sex offences in 2013. He was know to use his sporting contacts to procure youths.
Pearce worked for 5DN in 1981 - on a sports radio program. This could have been the source of Peter's Roosters jumper

So it looks like this:

Roze and Pearce are sex predator mates.
Pearce work on sports radio, he has access to sports people. Pearce has a history of using his sports contacts to procure youths
Both Roze and Pearce know BVE pays for youths
Roze lives 6 doors down from A (Stoggi's uncle)
Roze is pushing about to his network that he can get jumper signings etc. He's trawling for victims either for himself or BVE
He either sees Stoggi over at A's house and asks about him, or he just gives A a roosters jumper. He throws the line out.
He later talks to A and at some point A says, "My cousin love the Roosters jumper you gave him"
"Does he want to get it signed? Barrie Robran is coming in soon, I can get him to sign it"
A: I'll ask my cousin
"I'll need the jumper in a few days, can he meet tomorrow. At the front doors of TTP?
A makes the call
Stoggi wags school and goes to TTP, thinking he will meet his uncle "A's" mate
DiDi shows up. "Are you Peter? I'm a friend of. I will take you to the radio station to get it signed. The radio station guy is running late, I have to eat..."
The the "radio station guy" shows up and his name is Bevan Spencer von Einem.


There's a lot of moving parts but that description is quite compelling, as is the info regarding the footy jumper.
Click to expand...
Another interesting fact is that DK lived just 350m from Peter’s grandparents/uncles house (close proximity to RR) and his parents and family once lived on Torrens Rd about 600m up the rd from DK.
 

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AdelaideGT said:
Cigarettes look to be 'Benson & Hedges Stirling' which I smoked around that time. I recognise the guy on the right but can't recall the name right now.

Judging by the make-up of the one peeking from behind 'Severe Inflation', there's a good chance it is 'Rose Leaf'.
Click to expand...
Is his name Col or Colin? He looks so much like someone I’ve seen a few times, last seen Sept 2019. About 82+ years old now with tanned leathery creased skin. Got done for sex with a boy under 16 apparently many years ago.
 
GreyCrow said:
View attachment 1158571
If I didnt know better - the young fella with beer/smoke 1 handed combo looks a lot like me at the time

I mean I could have been there - but the Green Dragon was a ''I need beer'' location and the person looks fairly sober there - and I dont recognise the cigarettes . Escort Reds and Winfield were my smoke of choice at the time. Cant think of what brand they might be

Also the older gentleman on the right - looks legal/lawyer type - I dont think its Liddy but could be convinced it is
Click to expand...


Old mate in the red shirt looks to have a fair old bruise in the crook of his arm. Had some trouble hitting a vein.
 

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