The Fraser Dilemma

[pauly_moss]

Very interested to see what happens if Fraser has a blinder this week. Has been in very good form in the VFL. As a Fraser fan (one of the few left it seems) I would have had him in our best 22 easily 10 weeks ago but with the way Brown has been this year as a 2nd ruck perhaps not any more. Is there a spot for all 3 in the team? (Jolly an absoulute certainty)
Or can they play just the 2? Has Browns suspension put his spot at risk or was Fraser always going to play his 200th out of charity? It would take a very good game to keep him in but surely a 20 + possesion game with 3 goals would make him almost impossible to drop if something of the likes happens.

 

[Thommo 42]

So many possibilities, someone else might get injured/suspended. We just don't know.

You would think that Fraser would need 3+ goals, 20 odd touches and provide a good contest in the ruck to keep Leroy out though.

The first 2 aren't beyond him, but giving a good contest in the ruck will be the key. Considering we're playing the Hawks, its his best chance!

 

[shawthing09]

Fraser is no chance barring injury to L Brown or Jolly to play finals. The chances of him playing a blinder are slim as he has struggled when not used as a first ruck in recent years on almost every occasion.

 

[joxstrap]

I think it's a good problem to have if our fringe players are playing well. I don't think it makes sense to hope he has a poor game so that it's an easy decision to bring Brown back in. If he plays well and is in form as a backup, thats great. If he forces his way in with 10 goals and 45 taps as a backup, great.

Having said that, we have got to where we are with Brown as backup/forward, and it's been going very very well and there would have to be a very compelling reason to change that setup and go with all three.

 

[Pies_10]

Its a good Dilemma to have.

 

[Dawson]

Malthouse picks his teams based on the opposition we are playing.

He has said as much for as long as he has been coaching

 

[Kirby]

Fraser is no chance barring injury to L Brown or Jolly to play finals. The chances of him playing a blinder are slim as he has struggled when not used as a first ruck in recent years on almost every occasion.

This.

 

[Invigoration]

Let's wait and see whether he can actually get a kick first, that's been the biggest Fraser dilemma in his most recent AFL outings.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It would have to be quite the blinder to keep his spot.

Even then Malthouse would still probably put it down to lifting for his 200th.

 

[IheartCarrots]

I've always been a fan of Fraser. Even if he does play a blinder, 20 HO, 20+ disposals, 2 goals, 5 tackles, is there a good chance of him being dropped? I guess I'm asking, is he so far out of favour that his performance in this game becomes irrelevant?

And is this looking like his last year at Collingwood?

 

[Mickaman]

I personally hope he has a blinder I would rather have the coaches have a hard decision to make than an easy one.. I think Leroy will be back in next week barring injuries or suspension.

Congrats Josh for your 200 games.

 

[Sloth]

I'd hate to think he's going to get dropped no matter what he does...players need the chance to prove themselves and be rewarded for a great game. If he plays a blinder I'm sure he can squeeze in the team

 

[Thommo 42]

Fraser is no chance barring injury to L Brown or Jolly to play finals. The chances of him playing a blinder are slim as he has struggled when not used as a first ruck in recent years on almost every occasion.

Correct, but he's played 10 weeks in the VFL as a 2nd ruckman getting used to the role. Steadily improving every week. So hopefully the role is a bit more familiar to him now.

 

[dogbert]

I've read this 'dilemma' a few times on this board. When was the last time he actully played a blinder? and for him to pull his finger out and of all times do it this weekend?

 

[Thommo 42]

I've read this 'dilemma' a few times on this board. When was the last time he actully played a blinder? and for him to pull his finger out and of all times do it this weekend?

Anzac day this year + nearly every final he's ever played in.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

The other thing to be considered is that if the Pies are looking to trade Josh or Josh wanted a trade, a good game in the AFL would do his chances no harm. He is the only obvious inclusion for Brown, which is not saying much for Wood's season.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Another option is dropping a Nathan Brown or something (should he not play well) and bringing Leigh Brown in, but we have to wait until after Saturday's game to see what happens.

 

[shawthing09]

Another option is dropping a Nathan Brown or something (should he not play well) and bringing Leigh Brown in, but we have to wait until after Saturday's game to see what happens.

Then who makes way for Presti, Do we really think we are going to reinvent the wheel to try and find a way to accomidate Fraser who has not played a game in the ones in over 3 months.

The only way he could possibly fit into the structure is to play Leigh's role of foward who pinch hits in the ruck, he doesn't have the physicality that Leigh brings to the role and there is no way we are going to leave out a guy who has played his role every week for the whole year to bring in a guy who has played one good game.

I feel sorry for Fraser but it's simply to late for him to slot into the best 22. He is back up for injury and hopefully he does that well and give everyone confidence that he is ready to go if needed but that is it.

 

[Dawson]

Then who makes way for Presti, Do we really think we are going to reinvent the wheel to try and find a way to accomidate Fraser who has not played a game in the ones in over 3 months.

The only way he could possibly fit into the structure is to play Leigh's role of foward who pinch hits in the ruck, he doesn't have the physicality that Leigh brings to the role and there is no way we are going to leave out a guy who has played his role every week for the whole year to bring in a guy who has played one good game.

I feel sorry for Fraser but it's simply to late for him to slot into the best 22. He is back up for injury and hopefully he does that well and give everyone confidence that he is ready to go if needed but that is it.

This is probably the best scenario I have read on this topic.

L Brown's form cannot be denied and unfortunately as much as I like Josh he is not playing as good as Brown

 

[jerry springer]

sounds like a good problem to have

 

[pauly_moss]

I think he was unfairly judged earlier this year, his role as a second ruckman was quite good if you compare to other number 2 ruckmen in the league. I think the main thing that has left him out is how accurate L.Brown has been in front of goal this year compared to last year. Also Browns flexibility to go back where Fraser is not suited can not be denied.

The only other number 2 ruckmen I would rate better....

Warnock
Ryder
Nth have a few guys who play the back up role well
McEvoy
Natanui

I believe he is mid pack which is serviceable, but he certainly is not a number 1 ruckmen which he has been for years and his numbers were judged against previous years where he was the main man.

Jolly also seemed to pair up better with Brown in the side however I dont know if that was coincedence or just it took that long to find his feet at our club with our game plan

I just hope he can play well as it would be great to see us have a strong back up going into the finals. The list of players that can not get into the side that can come in is long and all can perform a role.

 

[Mental Magpie]

I love Josh. He has carried our clubs ruck stocks for the last 10 years. He has basically played as a #1 ruckmen for our club from the age of 18.
But; in football, there is no room for sentiment. A club has to make the hard call if it's to win the flag.
Leigh Brown is streets ahead of Josh with regards to intensity. Josh is more skillfull, a better kick, better hands etc. but he lacks intensity. This is Josh's problem IMO.
This fact alone is what will keep him out of the side.

 

[lozza63]

Now maybe it was a coincidence, or that Jolly just suddenly clicked for us, but my sentiment is that since Josh has been out Jolly has been superb. Since the Swans game really.

They didnt seem to "gell" as a combination.

I feel that Jolly is a "lone ranger" type, with Leeroy pinch hitting as required.

 

[OniAu]

Now maybe it was a coincidence, or that Jolly just suddenly clicked for us, but my sentiment is that since Josh has been out Jolly has been superb. Since the Swans game really.

They didnt seem to "gell" as a combination.

I feel that Jolly is a "lone ranger" type, with Leeroy pinch hitting as required.

all of this is correct.

he is done, not physical enough to be pushing leigh brown out nor versatile enough

not good enough in the ruck to even worry jolly out of the number 1 ruck role

not good enough to be effective up forward for a whole match , dawes would be doing a much better job.

too many players are ahead of him.

 

[Axl the great]

Josh and only Josh can save his position at the club and his career, he is not a built unit as we all know and he is a lumbering type, the only way those players survive is workrate and smart positioning to have a real influence.

It is so frustrating because he has those last two attributes when he feels like it and has proved he can cut it in big games but the guy has had a hell of a lot of chances to become an automatic selection and hasnt taken them.
I for one think its not bad luck or Leroys form that has kept him out of the side but Josh himself.